Man Pulls Gun on Sam’s Club Customer.

Bartholomew Roberts · February 18, 2019, 03:00 PM

In Tennessee, a concealed handgun license holder flipped off a man over a political message on his clothing. He then drew his concealed handgun and stuck it in the man’s face. So this man, who judging by his grey hair, has managed to go most of his life without any kind of serious criminal charges, decided to throw his freedom away over the most ridiculous of causes.

https://www.wbko.com/content/news/Ma...505971901.html

From a tactics standpoint, he also failed to get the reaction he was seeking. The intended victim was not only not terrified; but pursued his attacker into the parking lot as he attempted to flee. Notably, his attacker tried to claim justifiable self defense and the video seemed to back up his story at first; but eyewitness testimony ended up in his arrest.

FITASC · February 18, 2019, 03:24 PM

As Bugs would say :"What a MAROON!"

Lohman446 · February 18, 2019, 03:32 PM

Apparently the cameras have blind spots in them just from reading the article and we are getting half of the story or, for those believe there are actually three sides (yours, mine, and the truth), a third of it. I'll wait for the rest of the story

FireForged · February 18, 2019, 04:36 PM

Quote:

As Bugs would say :"What a MAROON!"

Please remember that the bugs cartoon is very old and although I am sure the meaning is not intended to be be racial. Using a word which does have a historical meaning referring to slaves- can be taken the wrong way.

I used the word quite often as a kid from hearing it on the cartoons but sometime in the 90s I was cautioned about its historical meaning

Just food for thought

FireForged · February 18, 2019, 04:39 PM

Guns are not talismans and clearly there is a training or lack of training issue which needs addressing. This is the jackassery that leads to gun buster signs.

zxcvbob · February 18, 2019, 04:41 PM

Seriously? I'm pretty sure Bugs was just mispronouncing "moron" I've never heard of any other historical meaning. (I will look it up but I am skeptical)

Edit: Cimarrón?

FITASC · February 18, 2019, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Please remember that the bugs cartoon is very old and although I am sure the meaning is not intended to be be racial. Using a word which does have a historical meaning referring to slaves- can be taken the wrong way.

I used the word quite often as a kid from hearing it on the cartoons but sometime in the 90s I was cautioned about its historical meaning

Just food for thought

HUH? It isn't racial; it's a spoof on MORON...........please get a grip

FireForged · February 18, 2019, 05:53 PM

I am not suggesting that bugs bunny is racial but based on the climate of current times, I was simply bringing its historical meaning to light. You can look it up, its not hard to find.

Double Naught Spy · February 18, 2019, 06:03 PM

That is sort of the lazy argument to tell people it is easy to find, then not provide a reference for proof. Let me help you...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroon_(people)

However, just because the word can have a racial meaning does not mean it is being used racially. Obviously, there is no reference here to runaway slaves. Here also is the BB reference...

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=maroon

A term of derision often uttered by Bugs Bunny when referring to an interaction with a dopey adversary. It is a mispronunciation of the word "Moron"

FireForged · February 18, 2019, 06:46 PM

Lazy? really... it took 3 seconds https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/maroon

again for those who may have missed it. This has nothing to do with bugs bunny, I was simply offering that the word has a meaning relating to slavery. Take it for what its worth or don't. My intent was to merely help someone avoid having someone make the accusation.

ThomasT · February 18, 2019, 06:50 PM

Moronand Maroon. Two completely different words. Its like saying someone has a "Niggardly" way of doing things. It has nothing to do with our darker brothers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contro...22niggardly%22

FITASC · February 18, 2019, 08:21 PM

Boy, you guys really have nothing better to do? Guess I am one of a few that used to love watching Bugs, Daffy and the rest.

Prof Young · February 18, 2019, 09:51 PM

Back to the OP . . . Wow. How incredibly stupid can a person be. This guy needs to have his second amendment right removed.

Prof Young

TXAZ · February 18, 2019, 10:08 PM

^^^^^ This.

Nanuk · February 18, 2019, 10:13 PM

That dude is lucky. Not all of us are receptive to guns in our faces.

OhioGuy · February 18, 2019, 11:33 PM

Who follows an armed person out into the parking lot after having a gun shoved in his face?

stephen426 · February 18, 2019, 11:40 PM

I can't say I would have shown the same restraint if someone stuck a gun in my face. I'm not trying to sound like I'm Chuck Norris, but I would have put that guy on the floor, if not in a body bag. Then again, I don't advertise my political beliefs or my (likely) armed status with clothing or decals.

TunnelRat · February 18, 2019, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

Who follows an armed person out into the parking lot after having a gun shoved in his face?

People. I've talked to a number of officers who will tell you that the days of showing up on a scene, displaying a firearm, and getting immediate compliance are gone (whether because we're desensitized or cell phones make us think someone will always be held accountable I don't know). And police are people that actually have additional legal authority. I watched both a man and a woman "kill" two people in a force on force scenario because they drew firearms, expected compliance, and had no idea what to do when they didn't get it. When others ran through the same scenario no one was killed because a firearm didn't have to be drawn in the first place. This story could have gone even worse.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

OhioGuy · February 19, 2019, 07:01 AM

I understand that -- I guess it strikes me that the victim in this scenario (if indeed he's the victim, as it seems there's some gaps in the account?) could have quickly lost his victim status by following his would-be gunman out into the parking lot when he clearly did not need to. Maybe he wanted to snap a photo of him, maybe he was packing too and wanted to make a point, or maybe he would have just got himself shot.

Legally I'm not sure how that would go -- man gets gun shoved in face (innocent victim in immediate jeopardy) -- threat removes itself (no more jeopardy) -- man follows the threat into a parking lot and ends up back in jeopardy (now he's contributed to the escalation of the problem) -- let's say man now shoots the threat in self defense, that would never have been needed had he called the cops and stayed put in Sam's Club next to the 25 gallon drum of peanut butter.

Seems like both sides were doing dumb stuff. But I make no claims to intelligence of my own!

FITASC · February 19, 2019, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Who follows an armed person out into the parking lot after having a gun shoved in his face?

Exactly, they BOTH get to wear the Stupid hat for their moves.

briandg · February 19, 2019, 09:48 AM

FWIW. According to the officially accepted levine and marks 1928 IQ scale Moron was an accepted description of what we now refer to as extremely or very low.

Quote:

IQ Range ("ratio IQ") IQ Classification
175 and over Precocious
150–174 Very superior
125–149 Superior
115–124 Very bright
105–114 Bright
95–104 Average
85–94 Dull
75–84 Borderline
50–74 Morons
25–49 Imbeciles
0–24 Idiots

I believe that these fell into the 20-30% range. (lots of people.)

Bugs almost always followed 'what a maroon' with 'what an im-bess-ill' or 'Ignoranimus'. These accidental or intentional mispronunciations are sometimes known as 'archie-isms, in example

Quote:

"This is a day that will live in infancy!"

and the term 'maroon' when used in BB is clearly and obviously not meant in any sense other than referring to someone in the lowest percentage of intelligence.

Let whoever wants to re-write history and common sense foolishly do so but the facts clearly suggest it to be race baiting.

The guy is obviously suffering from some sort of dementia, or is within the 'dull or borderline' range, probably not a 'maroon' per bugs bunny.

If the truth matters to a person, they will search out the truth not in obscure and non-contextual sources, but will go right to the context and search for explanations that fit the situation, not explanations that fit the desired narrative.

OhioGuy · February 19, 2019, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FITASC

Exactly, they BOTH get to wear the Stupid hat for their moves.

And the real tragedy for everyone is that a key anti-CCW argument is -- basically -- ordinary people are too stupid and untrained to be trusted to carry guns. All the favorable statistics and reasonable 2A arguments are quickly forgotten when some jack-dope pulls his gun on someone's hat, or someone shoots his foot off in a grocery store cuz he's carrying a loaded gun in the waistband of his sweatpants with no holster.

And then it's like "OK, so tell me again how letting people carry guns is a good idea?"

TailGator · February 19, 2019, 10:05 AM

It sounds like there were two hotheads, neither suited for polite society. Pierce, the "victim," is even quoted as saying that he went out into the parking lot "to confront him again," after challenging an armed man to either shoot him or engage in a fist fight. Sheesh.

I thought maroon was a color. I hadn't come across the term as an escaped slave or their descendant until today.

JERRYS. · February 19, 2019, 03:58 PM

Bugs was right, what a maroon.

ROCK6 · February 20, 2019, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TailGator

It sounds like there were two hotheads, neither suited for polite society. Pierce, the "victim," is even quoted as saying that he went out into the parking lot "to confront him again," after challenging an armed man to either shoot him or engage in a fist fight. Sheesh.

I thought maroon was a color. I hadn't come across the term as an escaped slave or their descendant until today.

This is a good observation. We still need the facts to come out and the video evidence isn't necessarily needed as there were eye-witnesses. I think with such a polarized society right now, defusing situations is more important than "sticking to your guns" (pun intended).

If the guy actually pulled his handgun and threatened the guy (regardless of his non-physical response), I can't see this guy retaining his CCW permit. I'm not one to say he's a Red Flag case, but he definitely abused his right to CCW in public if the facts bear it out.

More to the point of Pierce, the victim. While he didn't back down, he was pretty antagonistic. At some point you just avoid and call security, it would have been a pretty easy situation to diffuse. It's not always about our right of "freedom of expression", we, unfortunately have to deal with some pretty unstable people in society and avoiding conflict is an important training aspect for any gunowner (not that Pierce was CCW, but was a simply the target of a mentally unstable guy).

ROCK6

February 18, 2019, 03:00 PM	#1
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Man Pulls Gun on Sam’s Club Customer. In Tennessee, a concealed handgun license holder flipped off a man over a political message on his clothing. He then drew his concealed handgun and stuck it in the man’s face. So this man, who judging by his grey hair, has managed to go most of his life without any kind of serious criminal charges, decided to throw his freedom away over the most ridiculous of causes. https://www.wbko.com/content/news/Ma...505971901.html From a tactics standpoint, he also failed to get the reaction he was seeking. The intended victim was not only not terrified; but pursued his attacker into the parking lot as he attempted to flee. Notably, his attacker tried to claim justifiable self defense and the video seemed to back up his story at first; but eyewitness testimony ended up in his arrest.

February 18, 2019, 03:24 PM	#2
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	As Bugs would say :"What a MAROON!" __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

February 18, 2019, 04:39 PM	#5
FireForged Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 1999 Location: Rebel South USA Posts: 2,074	Guns are not talismans and clearly there is a training or lack of training issue which needs addressing. This is the jackassery that leads to gun buster signs. __________________ Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...

February 18, 2019, 04:41 PM	#6
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Seriously? I'm pretty sure Bugs was just mispronouncing "moron" I've never heard of any other historical meaning. (I will look it up but I am skeptical) Edit: Cimarrón? __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth Last edited by zxcvbob; February 18, 2019 at 04:48 PM.

February 18, 2019, 05:53 PM	#8
FireForged Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 1999 Location: Rebel South USA Posts: 2,074	I am not suggesting that bugs bunny is racial but based on the climate of current times, I was simply bringing its historical meaning to light. You can look it up, its not hard to find. __________________ Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...

February 18, 2019, 03:32 PM	#3
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	Apparently the cameras have blind spots in them just from reading the article and we are getting half of the story or, for those believe there are actually three sides (yours, mine, and the truth), a third of it. I'll wait for the rest of the story

February 18, 2019, 06:03 PM	#9
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	That is sort of the lazy argument to tell people it is easy to find, then not provide a reference for proof. Let me help you... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroon_(people) However, just because the word can have a racial meaning does not mean it is being used racially. Obviously, there is no reference here to runaway slaves. Here also is the BB reference... https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=maroon A term of derision often uttered by Bugs Bunny when referring to an interaction with a dopey adversary. It is a mispronunciation of the word "Moron" __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

February 18, 2019, 06:46 PM	#10
FireForged Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 1999 Location: Rebel South USA Posts: 2,074	Lazy? really... it took 3 seconds https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/maroon again for those who may have missed it. This has nothing to do with bugs bunny, I was simply offering that the word has a meaning relating to slavery. Take it for what its worth or don't. My intent was to merely help someone avoid having someone make the accusation. __________________ Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... Last edited by FireForged; February 18, 2019 at 06:53 PM.

February 18, 2019, 06:50 PM	#11
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	Moronand Maroon. Two completely different words. Its like saying someone has a "Niggardly" way of doing things. It has nothing to do with our darker brothers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contro...22niggardly%22

February 18, 2019, 08:21 PM	#12
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	Boy, you guys really have nothing better to do? Guess I am one of a few that used to love watching Bugs, Daffy and the rest. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

February 18, 2019, 09:51 PM	#13
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	Back to the OP . . . Back to the OP . . . Wow. How incredibly stupid can a person be. This guy needs to have his second amendment right removed. Prof Young

February 18, 2019, 10:08 PM	#14
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	^^^^^ This. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

February 18, 2019, 10:13 PM	#15
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	That dude is lucky. Not all of us are receptive to guns in our faces. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

February 18, 2019, 11:33 PM	#16
OhioGuy Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2016 Posts: 1,089	Who follows an armed person out into the parking lot after having a gun shoved in his face?

February 18, 2019, 11:40 PM	#17
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	I can't say I would have shown the same restraint if someone stuck a gun in my face. I'm not trying to sound like I'm Chuck Norris, but I would have put that guy on the floor, if not in a body bag. Then again, I don't advertise my political beliefs or my (likely) armed status with clothing or decals. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

February 19, 2019, 07:01 AM	#19
OhioGuy Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2016 Posts: 1,089	I understand that -- I guess it strikes me that the victim in this scenario (if indeed he's the victim, as it seems there's some gaps in the account?) could have quickly lost his victim status by following his would-be gunman out into the parking lot when he clearly did not need to. Maybe he wanted to snap a photo of him, maybe he was packing too and wanted to make a point, or maybe he would have just got himself shot. Legally I'm not sure how that would go -- man gets gun shoved in face (innocent victim in immediate jeopardy) -- threat removes itself (no more jeopardy) -- man follows the threat into a parking lot and ends up back in jeopardy (now he's contributed to the escalation of the problem) -- let's say man now shoots the threat in self defense, that would never have been needed had he called the cops and stayed put in Sam's Club next to the 25 gallon drum of peanut butter. Seems like both sides were doing dumb stuff. But I make no claims to intelligence of my own!

February 19, 2019, 10:05 AM	#23
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	It sounds like there were two hotheads, neither suited for polite society. Pierce, the "victim," is even quoted as saying that he went out into the parking lot "to confront him again," after challenging an armed man to either shoot him or engage in a fist fight. Sheesh. I thought maroon was a color. I hadn't come across the term as an escaped slave or their descendant until today.

February 19, 2019, 03:58 PM	#24
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	Bugs was right, what a maroon.