How do I sell my Makarov to my son in another state?

DG45 · September 25, 2011, 12:37 AM

I own an East German Makarov pistol that I purchased about 20-25 years ago when they were first imported into the USA. My adult son (6 year Navy veteran; gainfully employed, married with two small children; clean criminal record) works at night and wants it for home protection. (His neighbors home was recently broken into at night.) I don't need it and always planned for it to go to him someday anyway. I'd like to go ahead and give it to him now, but we live in different states and #1, I want to be sure that whatever I do is strictly legal, and #2, once its out of my hands, I don't want any future personal liability from it.

I'm thinking that if my sons buys a C&R license, he can just send me a copy of the license, plus a check written for $1 as payment in full for the gun and then I can ship it to him, and after that it'll be his and I'll be out of it, and that's all that's neccesary. True? false?

If this isn't the best procedure to follow what is? Any help will be appreciated.

DG

PS This inquiry isn't about whether a Makarov is the right gun for HD or not. I know all the pros and cons of that, but this is the gun he prefers. (He also has a 12 ga. shotgun, but his wife is scared of that.)

Tidewater_Kid · September 25, 2011, 09:02 AM

The easiest way to transfer it to him is have your FFL ship it to his FFL. Cost you a little money, but no hassles.

TK

mkk41 · September 25, 2011, 09:20 AM

Don't know what states you're in , but it all depends on your respective states laws. Does his current state of residence require registration? In some states , a parent can give a firearms as a gift with no paperwork involved. You could always give it to him as a gift when he comes home for a visit. Or maybe ya gave it to him years ago before he moved?

A few states do not even allow C&R holders to receive handguns directly. Best way is to have an FFL in your state ship it to an FFL in your sons state.

Don H · September 25, 2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkk41

Don't know what states you're in , but it all depends on your respective states laws. Does his current state of residence require registration? In some states , a parent can give a firearms as a gift with no paperwork involved. You could always give it to him as a gift when he comes home for a visit.

Some states may have such laws but federal law takes precedence in interstate transfers and there is no such provision for transfers between family members. Gifting or selling a firearm to someone who lives in another state, even if a family member, without the transfer being made through an FFL, is a federal crime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkk41

Or maybe ya gave it to him years ago before he moved?

Might want to check the forum rule about "Knowingly and willfully advocating violation of a standing federal or state law (any state)". The mods seem to take that one fairly seriously.

docnyt · September 25, 2011, 02:07 PM

The FFL to FFL transfer is probably the cheapest and most convenient solution, as suggested.

I wonder if it's also OK to just bring the Mak over to him when you visit and have it transferred at an FFL in his state? Assuming it's legal to drive through any intervening states on your drive.

noelf2 · September 25, 2011, 02:22 PM

I own all of the guns in my father's house. He gave them to me years ago when I was still a resident of his state. One day, I'll go and get all of my guns but I'm not in any itching hurry.

**Frank Ettin** · September 26, 2011, 11:03 AM

Under federal law, all transfers of a firearm from the resident of one State to a resident of another (with a few narrow exceptions, e. g., a bequest in a will) must be done by an FFL. In the case of a handgun, it must be an FFL in the transferee's home State. (18 USC 922(a)(3) and 18 USC 922(a)(5))

The easiest thing for the OP to do is to have his son find a local FFL who will do the transfer. The OP, or an FFL on his behalf, can then simply send the gun to son's transfer FFL who will transfer the gun. It would be legal for the OP to send the gun directly to the transfer FFL, but some FFLs will not, as a matter of business practice, accept a gun for transfer directly from an individual.

Doing all this will cost a little money and be a bit of a hassle, but it may be easier overall than having the sun apply to ATF for a C&R license. I'm sure it will take less time.

BTW, the OP doesn't have to sell the gun to the son. It can be a gift. However, there's no exception under federal law for an interstate transfer that's a gift, even if intrafamilial.

maestro pistolero · September 26, 2011, 12:03 PM

Good answer, Fidddletown. Yep, this is a transfer like any other. Just ship it to a willing FFL near your son, and you're legal-schmeagle.

Off topic comment:
Have you fired that Makarov much? Is it a reliable self defense choice? Doesn't it use the 9mm Makarov cartridge? Make sure there's good defensive ammo available for it and then test it with that ammo. Some guns designed pre-hollow-points won't feed them. There's nothing more dangerous than a SD gun that fails at the crucial moment.

Off-topic button disengaged.

Good luck to your son.

Bill DeShivs · September 26, 2011, 01:42 PM

If you gave it to him while he lived in your state, he can take it [to his new] home[, when he moves.] ~~any time he wants.~~

ETA: Tto show the difference in lawful and unlawful. - Al.

hermannr · September 26, 2011, 02:08 PM

I have a problem with "I want no more liability for it"? Do you have a state that has a registration system (a la NY?). In free state, FTF is legal to anyone who is a resident of your state. (including residents that are in the military but are not physically present in your state)

If you do live in a non-free state, the only way is to FFL to FFL.

If you live in a free state, and you son is still in the Navy? what is his home of record? If you son is still in the Navy, and his HoR is in your state, you can give it to him. If he is still in the Navy, and his HoR is still in your state, then he is legally still a resident of your state.

If not, FFL is the simplist way.

**Aguila Blanca** · September 26, 2011, 03:57 PM

I have a problem with more than one poster suggesting that the transfer be backdated.

Isn't one of the rules of this site that we NOT advocate illegal activities? Ah, yes -- Rule #5, next-to-last bullet.

**Mal H** · September 26, 2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Isn't one of the rules of this site that we NOT advocate illegal activities?

Yes, and I have already deleted one post for doing that.

Since the OP got his answer, and the correct legal answer, in the first couple of posts, I'm going to close this before anyone else comes up with a creative way to get around the laws of the land. They may be laws we disagree with, but they are still the law, and until changed we won't be advocating the breaking or skirting of them.

Closed.

September 25, 2011, 02:22 PM	#6
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	I own all of the guns in my father's house. He gave them to me years ago when I was still a resident of his state. One day, I'll go and get all of my guns but I'm not in any itching hurry. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

September 26, 2011, 11:03 AM	#7
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Under federal law, all transfers of a firearm from the resident of one State to a resident of another (with a few narrow exceptions, e. g., a bequest in a will) must be done by an FFL. In the case of a handgun, it must be an FFL in the transferee's home State. (18 USC 922(a)(3) and 18 USC 922(a)(5)) The easiest thing for the OP to do is to have his son find a local FFL who will do the transfer. The OP, or an FFL on his behalf, can then simply send the gun to son's transfer FFL who will transfer the gun. It would be legal for the OP to send the gun directly to the transfer FFL, but some FFLs will not, as a matter of business practice, accept a gun for transfer directly from an individual. Doing all this will cost a little money and be a bit of a hassle, but it may be easier overall than having the sun apply to ATF for a C&R license. I'm sure it will take less time. BTW, the OP doesn't have to sell the gun to the son. It can be a gift. However, there's no exception under federal law for an interstate transfer that's a gift, even if intrafamilial. Last edited by Frank Ettin; September 26, 2011 at 11:09 AM.

September 26, 2011, 01:42 PM	#9
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	If you gave it to him while he lived in your state, he can take it [to his new] home[, when he moves.] ~~any time he wants.~~ ETA: Tto show the difference in lawful and unlawful. - Al. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 25, 2011, 12:37 AM	#1
DG45 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Posts: 904	How do I sell my Makarov to my son in another state? I own an East German Makarov pistol that I purchased about 20-25 years ago when they were first imported into the USA. My adult son (6 year Navy veteran; gainfully employed, married with two small children; clean criminal record) works at night and wants it for home protection. (His neighbors home was recently broken into at night.) I don't need it and always planned for it to go to him someday anyway. I'd like to go ahead and give it to him now, but we live in different states and #1, I want to be sure that whatever I do is strictly legal, and #2, once its out of my hands, I don't want any future personal liability from it. I'm thinking that if my sons buys a C&R license, he can just send me a copy of the license, plus a check written for $1 as payment in full for the gun and then I can ship it to him, and after that it'll be his and I'll be out of it, and that's all that's neccesary. True? false? If this isn't the best procedure to follow what is? Any help will be appreciated. DG PS This inquiry isn't about whether a Makarov is the right gun for HD or not. I know all the pros and cons of that, but this is the gun he prefers. (He also has a 12 ga. shotgun, but his wife is scared of that.)

September 25, 2011, 09:02 AM	#2
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	The easiest way to transfer it to him is have your FFL ship it to his FFL. Cost you a little money, but no hassles. TK

September 25, 2011, 09:20 AM	#3
mkk41 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 283	Don't know what states you're in , but it all depends on your respective states laws. Does his current state of residence require registration? In some states , a parent can give a firearms as a gift with no paperwork involved. You could always give it to him as a gift when he comes home for a visit. Or maybe ya gave it to him years ago before he moved? A few states do not even allow C&R holders to receive handguns directly. Best way is to have an FFL in your state ship it to an FFL in your sons state.

September 25, 2011, 02:07 PM	#5
docnyt Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2011 Location: HeArT of DiXiE Posts: 154	The FFL to FFL transfer is probably the cheapest and most convenient solution, as suggested. I wonder if it's also OK to just bring the Mak over to him when you visit and have it transferred at an FFL in his state? Assuming it's legal to drive through any intervening states on your drive.

September 26, 2011, 12:03 PM	#8
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	Good answer, Fidddletown. Yep, this is a transfer like any other. Just ship it to a willing FFL near your son, and you're legal-schmeagle. Off topic comment: Have you fired that Makarov much? Is it a reliable self defense choice? Doesn't it use the 9mm Makarov cartridge? Make sure there's good defensive ammo available for it and then test it with that ammo. Some guns designed pre-hollow-points won't feed them. There's nothing more dangerous than a SD gun that fails at the crucial moment. Off-topic button disengaged. Good luck to your son.

September 26, 2011, 02:08 PM	#10
hermannr Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2011 Posts: 730	I have a problem with "I want no more liability for it"? Do you have a state that has a registration system (a la NY?). In free state, FTF is legal to anyone who is a resident of your state. (including residents that are in the military but are not physically present in your state) If you do live in a non-free state, the only way is to FFL to FFL. If you live in a free state, and you son is still in the Navy? what is his home of record? If you son is still in the Navy, and his HoR is in your state, you can give it to him. If he is still in the Navy, and his HoR is still in your state, then he is legally still a resident of your state. If not, FFL is the simplist way.

September 26, 2011, 03:57 PM	#11
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	I have a problem with more than one poster suggesting that the transfer be backdated. Isn't one of the rules of this site that we NOT advocate illegal activities? Ah, yes -- Rule #5, next-to-last bullet.