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Old December 16, 2021, 10:36 AM   #1
Eddiejoe
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I need advice on a Pistol Caliber Rifle

Howdy folks. I had to put down a wounded animal at roughly 70 yards. I could get no closer for certain reasons. I had to use 5.56 to do it because that was my best option at the time, but my concern is that the bullets passed through him.
I am looking for something that I can use out to around 100 yards on coyotes and larger feral/pack dogs.

I have seen the Ruger PCC, but never held one, same for the Kel tec Sub 2000. I'm also not opposed to Hi-point.
I'd like to stay in 9mm or .45, because I already shoot those. If another caliber is more suitable, I'd like to hear about it.

I know this is the semi-auto forum, but I could also do a .357 lever gun.

My main concern is to dispatch them quickly and humanely. The one I shot recently took 2 rounds before dropping. I know I need practice as well, but that's another forum too.

Thank you in advance for any advice you can provide.
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Old December 16, 2021, 11:08 AM   #2
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444 Marlin--great "in betweener 44 mag and 45-70."
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Old December 16, 2021, 11:28 AM   #3
seanc
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If you want a PCC, have at it. If it was me, I would look at bullet selection for your 5.56 carbine that'll do a better job than any PCC as far as reach and limiting over penetration.
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Old December 16, 2021, 11:31 AM   #4
Eddiejoe
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Are you thinking heavier and HP/SP?
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Old December 16, 2021, 11:51 AM   #5
mehavey
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I don't like what I'm seeing accuracy-wise in the 9mm/45ACP rifle options

Lever-action 44 Mag
`94 Marlin if you can
`92 Rossi if not
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Old December 16, 2021, 12:38 PM   #6
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I've always kind of been fascinated with having a rifle shooting the same rounds as a handgun, like some of the old time cowboys, but I always come up against my personal prejudice that I'd be carrying around a rifle but I wouldn't be getting rifle performance cause I'd be shooting pistol rounds out of it.

Still, kind of a neat idea...wonder if I hit the lottery and got a .460 S&W revolver and a lever rifle to match if that would be a winning combination?
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Old December 16, 2021, 12:43 PM   #7
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Accuracy in PCCs is based on setting them up right and then using the proper loads. 1500 fps with a 115 JHP is no joke, and mine holds a 6" group at 200 yards for 5 rounds with a dot. Quieter and cheaper to shoot too.

But, yeah, as seanc said, a good varmint bullet from a .223 will be a better, and quicker dispatch. You need something designed for what you want to do, not just any old 55 FMJ.
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Old December 16, 2021, 01:20 PM   #8
Shadow9mm
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I loved the look of the Ruger PCC. However after I held one, it felt like a boat anchor. heavy and cumbersome.

I have handled the kel-tek. light and handy. However after past experience with 2 different PF9s I don't think I will ever be buying a kel-tek product again.

What bullet, or type of bullet, and bullet weight, did you using the the 5.56? I personally think 5.56 would be a great choice for coyote or feral dogs with proper bullet selection, like a light varmint bullet, if you wanted to limit over penetration.
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Old December 16, 2021, 02:07 PM   #9
Eddiejoe
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I used what was already in the magazine - 55 grain ball. It was an emergency. I hit him twice, and it is very rural, but I suspect they went through him. That is of great concern.
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Old December 16, 2021, 02:12 PM   #10
MarkCO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddiejoe View Post
I used what was already in the magazine - 55 grain ball. It was an emergency. I hit him twice, and it is very rural, but I suspect they went through him. That is of great concern.
I use 50 to 60 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips for furbearing predators. I've shot well over 100 Coyotes and maybe 5 bullets had exit wounds. Those were small pieces of jacket that had virtually no mass. .22 caliber entrance, jellied chest cavity. They just immediately go limp. There are plenty of good varmint bullets/loads in .223.
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Old December 16, 2021, 03:00 PM   #11
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^^^ THIS^^^
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Old December 16, 2021, 03:59 PM   #12
Eddiejoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO View Post
I use 50 to 60 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips for furbearing predators. I've shot well over 100 Coyotes and maybe 5 bullets had exit wounds. Those were small pieces of jacket that had virtually no mass. .22 caliber entrance, jellied chest cavity. They just immediately go limp. There are plenty of good varmint bullets/loads in .223.
Thank you MarkCO! This really helps.
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Old December 16, 2021, 04:03 PM   #13
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If you're talking about deer or hog sized animals, .44 Magnum in a lever action rifle is stern medicine. It's not a bear gun like the humorous .444 Marlin suggestion, but would take black bear.

Animals are tough. Hunters know that good shot placement, a .22 LR can drop a grizzly bear, while uninformed shot placement... many many holes can be distressingly made before a humane kill. With a .357 lever action, you might wonder "Do I have enough gun for this job." You will never wonder that with .44 Magnum. It would be my choice for big northern whitetail hunting or big hog or black bear hunting.

9mm or 45acp in something like a Kel-tec has the disadvantages of poor bullet design for hunting and inaccuracy. They are not hunting rifles.

As stated above- proper bullet choice might get you where you want to go for $700 less than getting a new rifle. Also, shot placement is the key. Always. Between the ear and eye will be an instant "lights out."
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Old December 16, 2021, 04:41 PM   #14
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If you already have the 5.56 I'd look at better bullet selection. Winchester Power Points are potent medicine on critters. The light for caliber ballistic tip varmint rounds do tremendous damage with very little penetration.

I switched up my HD gun from a 5.56 to a 9mm SBR after an experience shooting indoors. I trust my MP5 for shots out to 100 yards but that's it. I still keep my AR for outdoor pest control and I feel comfortable shooting 200 plus yards with it.
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Old December 16, 2021, 06:35 PM   #15
Eddiejoe
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Proper bullet choice seems to be the first change I need to make. With the new bullet come more practice. I may put a better scope on it.
Thanks a lot guys.
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Old December 17, 2021, 12:14 AM   #16
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I’d rather use a proper .223 bullet than a pistol caliber for an animal.
I exterminated feral pigs for a few years. Hundreds shot, none got further than a few feet.

Also killed many many coyotes with .223.
A proper bullet will kill them quickly, and sometimes dismember the small ones.
I’ll take velocity over bullet diameter any day.
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Old December 17, 2021, 05:43 AM   #17
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I've got a Scorpion that I registered as an SBR. They need a cheap trigger kit out of the box, but other than that they are good to go. suppressed and with an MRO sight it's really fun. It is one of my least expensive options, but would probably be the first rifle I'd grab if I needed something to protect myself with.
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Old December 18, 2021, 09:57 AM   #18
Eddiejoe
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I ordered some 40-grain V-MAX in .223 yesterday.
We stopped to see our stepson last night and he gave me a scope to try out in place of what I have now.
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Old December 18, 2021, 03:42 PM   #19
Rob228
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As its been said different ammo may be the "correct" answer, but just in case you need a reason to by another gun:

I've got the Ruger, and as already stated it is HEAVY. It can take Glock magazines and with a red dot it is plenty accurate.

For about $200 more you can get a Henry in .357 or .44 or 45 Colt and they are just good old fun. Much easier to find 9mm ammo right now though.
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Old December 19, 2021, 03:26 PM   #20
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A nice Henry BBS with the side gate in .357 would put a big smile on your face, although no reason an AR can’t do that job.
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Old December 19, 2021, 05:14 PM   #21
Mike38
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A .223 loaded with a 40 to 50 grain Ballistic tip bullet should not give you over penetration problems. I recently smacked a ground hog at around 110-120 yards with a 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet. There was no exit. I picked up the ground hog and it felt like a large water balloon. The inners of the animal were pretty much liquified.
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Old December 19, 2021, 06:13 PM   #22
44caliberkid
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For coyotes and feral dogs, which the OP specified, I think a 357 lever gun would be fine, but since you already have a 5.56, the economical solution would just be use expanding bullets. But then we don’t get to buy a new gun.
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Old December 19, 2021, 06:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy View Post
A nice Henry BBS with the side gate in .357 would put a big smile on your face, although no reason an AR can’t do that job.
If you can find one. Been looking for one hard, can find one in my area. and online they are marked up way beyond the normal 850 range they go for.
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Old December 19, 2021, 09:11 PM   #24
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This actually sounds like a situation where .22 Magnum would be fine. At 70 yards from a rifle with a long barrel the .22 Mag with a hollow point is going to do some damage. Can't think of too many predatory animals that a .22 Mag won't drop that are in North America, except maybe big cats.
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Old December 20, 2021, 06:58 AM   #25
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If you can find one. Been looking for one hard, can find one in my area. and online they are marked up way beyond the normal 850 range they go for.
I just had the shorter carbine version with the black plastic furniture pop up here locally for a thousand bucks. I’m tempted. It’s a private sale, NIB so the money I’d save on no sales tax helps offset the price somewhat.
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