What do police have that civilians don't?

[9mmsnoopy]

A voracious appetite for donuts


This is based on scientific proof My brother was skinny when he became a cop, after about a year on the job he is fattening up quite nicely.

We did have a couple of local cops here who i know weighed atleast 300 pounds, kinda disgraceful if you ask me, who the heck are they going to run after? Someone must have cracked down on them, one of them is now the health code inspector and the other one i havent seen in a long time.

[Powderman]

not everyone values life above all. didnt you see the new clint eastwood movie, "letters from iwo jima " ?

Movie?! MOVIE???

Friend, with all due respect, wake up and smell the coffee.

This isn't about "pride", or macho, or manliness, or whatever else you want to call it. This is about LIFE and DEATH--and the very real possibility of a very messy, violent death. It's also about (if you're married with a family) having you taken from your family in the moment of their greatest need, and leaving them possibly at the hands of sadists who want nothing more than to get even with you for interrupting their fun.

This is about the possibility of something happening that will make men soil their pants quickly--the absolute hell of a gunfight, face to face, with multiple assailants in close quarters. This is about the very real possibility of fighting on even though you're wounded or maimed.

My son is a Marine. He spent some time in Fallujah when they retook the city. He has mentioned to me--very briefly--incidents where he and his squad encountered armed Iraqis in the houses they were searching.

None of the Iraqis surrendered.

I asked my son what happened, and he looked at me. I remembered when he was younger how he looked--always kind of goofy, and handsome to a fault. Now, my son--my little boy--looked at me through a man's eyes, eyes that had a hard shine to them and at the same time looked much older than his 24 years.

He simply said, "We came out. They didn't." He has never talked about it since then.

This isn't fun and games, friend. Take that to heart.

[Charles S]

Actually this is a good question. Questions like this are interesting to me because it can almost be used as a litmus test to delineate between the armchair “experts”, people who have no training and need no training, and those people on the board who are knowledgeable to varying degrees about self defense.

To answer your question directly, the average policeman is probably not as skilled as the average shooter who loves to shoot and shoots a lot, this is because the average policeman is not a shooter (there are exceptions so if you are don’t get upset). The police officer does however have training; the average shooter does not, and therefore does not understand how dangerous building clearing can be.

For those of you who think you can safely clear a building, I would like for you to ponder these thoughts.

If there is truly evidence that there is someone in the building, the first police officer who responds will not enter the building without backup, there will be at least one other officer, probably two (these officers will have support, body armor and training). The officer may choose to utilize the canine unit to clear the building.

The varying special operations units spend a tremendous amount of time on room clearing, and structure clearing because it is one of the most dangerous and difficult task they are assigned to do.

Get some training; I think if you practice in a single room kill house with Simunition® Cartridges you will realize that the defender has an incredible advantage. Train against silhouettes in a house clearing environment and when you realize how vulnerable you are you will change your mind.

If you truly feel that there is an armed individual in your home and it needs to be cleared the call the police and leave house clearing to groups of professionals with body armor, training, teamwork, and support.

It is fun to do room clearance training with groups, I highly encourage everyone to attend a class with room clearing as a component, and you will learn a lot. If you can find a course that offers it with low light training even better, one of the best courses I have ever taken involved shooting in varying degrees of lighting and room clearing.

[Smokin Joe]

get up and smell the coffee,

Many other cultures see things differently, losing "face" or "honor" can be worse than death.

Back in the days, there were duels, if you were to goose my wife, I would challenge you to a fight to the death.

Just because we americans now live in THIS time and THIS place, dont mean the whole world thinks like 60's peace loving hippies..

I, wont get in to the house. I'll stand outside and shoot them from behind cover when they come out with my stuff. had that been legal that is, in some states it might be legal to defend property...

Also I believe in fighting back. you dont just let people come in and take what they want, what kind of society is this when everyone is so selfish to fight for an ideal.

we's still be british if we didnt fight.

there ' ll be alot more crime if word gets out that most people just let you come in and take what you want.

Sure a few good men will die. but that is perfectly acceptable in this "war against crime".

[Glenn E. Meyer]

City of New York - do you even have guns there for the typical renter or homeowner? Is goosing rampant?

Le'ts be a touch more mature here. Geez!

[Smokin Joe]

yes we have guns here.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It's supposedly very difficult to get a handgun permit in NYC. How did you do it?

[Smokin Joe]

It's supposedly very difficult to get a handgun permit in NYC. How did you do it?

Its easy really. if you got the money and the time and the patience.

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/html/dclm/ldinfo.html

[OBIWAN]

For those that think they can clear any home(theirs or someone else's) by themselves

Try it....get a couple airsoft pistols and just try it

Very enlightening

Unless your partner is a real dunce he can find a position that allows him to hose you before you ever see him

Would I "clear my house" if my kids lives were in danger...sure

But if my family comes home to find an open front door I am calling the police

[garryc]

Speaking only for Ohio, If you clear your own house and end up shooting a BG, you are going to prison.

[Powderman]

Many other cultures see things differently, losing "face" or "honor" can be worse than death.

Back in the days, there were duels, if you were to goose my wife, I would challenge you to a fight to the death.

Just because we americans now live in THIS time and THIS place, dont mean the whole world thinks like 60's peace loving hippies..

I, wont get in to the house. I'll stand outside and shoot them from behind cover when they come out with my stuff. had that been legal that is, in some states it might be legal to defend property...

Also I believe in fighting back. you dont just let people come in and take what they want, what kind of society is this when everyone is so selfish to fight for an ideal.

we's still be british if we didnt fight.

there ' ll be alot more crime if word gets out that most people just let you come in and take what you want.

Sure a few good men will die. but that is perfectly acceptable in this "war against crime".
__________________

OK, I positively HAVE to ask:

Are you old enough to even OWN a gun?

[Smokin Joe]

OK, I positively HAVE to ask:

Are you old enough to even OWN a gun?

all right, I dont get it, what so wrong with what I posted ? does it seem immature ? or is the ideals of it so foreign to you that you cannot comprehend ?

I still stand behind what I said.

1 - some cultures there are fates worse than death

2 - I believe in fighting for what you know is right

3 - I refuse to be taken advantage of.

but if you dont feel the same, thats cool, we all got our own opinions.

and out of curiousity, how old u think I am ?

[Powderman]

No comment, friend.

I also believe that there are things worth fighting for--and yes, things worth dying for.

I will lay my life on the line to protect my family, my Country, or an innocent man, woman or child who is about to be hurt. I will step into the breach if it is necessary.

That being said, I do not plan to give my life cheaply.

When you enter a house or building where you KNOW another hostile person is, who may or may not have the intent to cause you grevious harm, you are walking into an ambush. Same thing if you boil out of your safe room--you are dancing to their tune, and it may not be a song that you like.

Waiting behind cover, or monitoring the outside of the dwelling puts you into the superior tactical position. It is a well known and taught military tactic--an element that attacks a fortified position is at a great disadvantage.

Now, what do you do when the person exits your home, and has your (gasp) brand new plasma HDTV in his hands?

NOTHING.

Observe, record license numbers, and relay the proceedings to the police dispatcher on the cell phone. You DO have a cell phone, right?

The guy with the plasma TV does NOT, at the moment, pose a threat to you or to anyone else. Yep, it's expensive. Yep, he broke into your house. SO WHAT?!?

Are you prepared to kill over that?

Now, if you are approaching your home, and you KNOW that your family is inside--this is what I would do.

Call 911, tell them really quickly what's going on, give them a description of what I'm wearing...

then draw my pistol, get to the house, and start to take care of business. I'll clear one room at a time, and get to my family. And, may God have mercy on whoever is in my home that would do my family harm--because I won't.

Hoist the black flag, and skin them smokewagons, boys.

[Smokin Joe]

ALL GOOD POINTS. though I would really really reaallllyyyy want to shoot the guy with my TV, I know doing so is wrong.


you might hit the TV.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

So do you actually have a gun and/or any real training in its usage?

[Smokin Joe]

So do you actually have a gun and/or any real training in its usage?

if you are referring to me, yes, former us military and training in all the infantry's ordance incl rifel postol grenade mine bayonet hand to hand and etc with also 15 years law enforcement with two city agencies.

but of course, you arent gnna believe me anyway, like, this IS the internet where everyone is their own chief of police...

[OBIWAN]

What is that Patton quote...something like your job is to make the other stupid bastard die for HIS country

I would much rather preserve my Honor ALONG WITH my life

Then I can live to a ripe old age and teach the little children how not to die od stupidity

How is calling for reinforcements (police) somehow "wrong"

If you walk into a house where armed bad guy(s) are waiting and they kill you you may have won some moral victory but you are STILL a victim...likely a dead victim

I love all the old John Wayne movies where the hero charges into machine gun fire, facing certain death.

But even as a kid I was smart enough to assume that there was some compelling reason to do it other than confirming your manhood

[Smokin Joe]

GOOD ONE ! die for HIS country.. ha ha ha ha

[lockedcj7]

When I was younger, my friends and I played paintball a lot. One of our favorite exercises was attempting to clear each other out of a barn. The aggressor NEVER won unless he employed some type of distraction/diversion AND the OPFOR broke cover.

After I got out of the Army, we played a lot more and it only reinforced what I learned before. You don't ever want to be in a real firefight. To those of you who have experienced it, my hat is off to you.

If you want to attempt to clear your own home, go right ahead. We tried to warn you but maybe you'd rather be "right" than alive.

[Smokin Joe]

it really depends on who you are and what your home has.

If you are wanted dead by a crime organization then DONT GO IN.

If your house contains millions of dollars of van gogh, then DONT GO IN.

If you are a ordinary JOE SMOE, with an ordinary home with nothing out of the ordinary inside,

then you prob find HOUSE BURGLARS.

Some people here think you'll be kicking down the door of a mob owned meth lab or somehting geeze.

If your house buglar is so well trained and well armed, he'd do better elsewhere instead of robbin your house when u are away..

[David Armstrong]

"I'M COMING IN, YOU HEAR? I'M COMING AND HELL IS COMING WITH ME, YOU HEAR? SO YOU BETTER GIT!"

Oh Lordy, I can see the lawsuit now! IF you are going to make an announcement, please refrain from strange superlatives that can only cast one in a negative light.

And I'm with most others here. I spent several years where clearing houses was part of the job, I've been as well-trained as jsut about anyone here, and I don't clear a house by myself. I call the local PD.

[David Armstrong]

all right, I dont get it, what so wrong with what I posted ? does it seem immature ?

Yes.

1 - some cultures there are fates worse than death

In this culture killing somebody over property is frowned upon. I'd question anybody who thinks losing their TV is worse than death.

2 - I believe in fighting for what you know is right

And do you really believe that killing somebody over a TV or a couch is right?

3 - I refuse to be taken advantage of

I'd still question anybody who thinks being taken advantage of should result in the death of someone.

but if you dont feel the same, thats cool, we all got our own opinions.

Yes, and when opinions conflict with law, the law will usually win.

If your house buglar is so well trained and well armed, he'd do better elsewhere instead of robbin your house when u are away..

He doesn't have to be well trained or well armed. All he has to do is squat down behind an old couch and shoot you with a sawed off shotgun held together with duct tape. You lose.

[Charles S]

If you are a ordinary JOE SMOE, with an ordinary home with nothing out of the ordinary inside,

then you prob find HOUSE BURGLARS.

Some people here think you'll be kicking down the door of a mob owned meth lab or somehting geeze.

If your house buglar is so well trained and well armed, he'd do better elsewhere instead of robbin your house when u are away..

The problem is that in a defensive position in a home it takes no training for the ordinary bugler to have a significant advantage over you. All he needs is a firearm. The literature varies regarding the defenders advantages in a room clearing situation, but you can safely assume that the defender will win. The person doing the clearing will be funneled into a kill zone and die (the criminal may not understand the theory behind what he does, but he will understand that if he waits in a room behind cover watching a doorway he has the advantage).

Mr. Farnam one of the acknowledged tactics experts has written a great deal on the subject and he feels building clearance should be left for teams that are trained in the subject and can work together.

The classes I have taken has convinced me to leave room clearing to the experts if it is at all possible. Yes I would do it if I thought my spouse or children were in immediate danger, but I also know what my chances of success are. If it were avoidable, then I would not clear a building.

I have built a layered defensive strategy that makes gaining entry into my home progressively harder. If someone breaks in and I am there I will take up a defensive position and call 911. If someone breaks in and I am not there I will call 911 and wait for the experts to assess the situation.

Again.

Questions like this are interesting to me because it can almost be used as a litmus test to delineate between the armchair “experts”, people who have no training and need no training, and those people on the board who are knowledgeable to varying degrees about self defense.

[David Armstrong]

I would much rather preserve my Honor ALONG WITH my life

Well said. Dying with honor still means you are dead.

[Smokin Joe]

In this culture killing somebody over property is frowned upon. I'd question anybody who thinks losing their TV is worse than death.

This is my last post in this thread.

When a criminal acts upon you,

what most people say is to give it to them, dont resist. you dont wanna get hurt. Let them have their way.

You let a criminal GO, even if YOU ARE SAFE, between the time that you let him go, and the cops catch up, (can be hours, can be never) he could have raped and murdered others.

SO that SOB walking off with my TV...

I'm not saying you should do anything, this is just my opinion.