Iver Johnson Top Break

The Rattler · March 21, 2016, 07:49 PM

I have a friend's Iver Johnson Top Break 32 cal revolver. I was told in a thread in December 2014 of this forum that since the hammer spring is a coil, and not flat, it was designed to firm modern cartridges.

However, I broke the Cam Center Spring of this revolver. I did so by trying to remove the cylinder following instructions of several Youtube videos. I took it to my gunsmith who said the method I used was improper.

The gunsmith ordered a replacement part from gunparts.com. Unfortunately, that part did not work on this gun. The gunsmith then tried to "make" a cam spring for it, but was unsuccessful in doing so. He kept the gun for a little over one year, but because he is very busy, I don't think he spent sufficient time to resolve the problem. That is not to say he did not spend time trying, just not enough time to fix it. Of course he did not charge me anything. But this leaves me in a "pickle."

I need to find a gunsmith who has enough background to know what type of cam spring to order, and who to order it from. Alternatively, I need to find a gunsmith who has the skill and background to make one. Since this is not my gun and I broke it, I feel obligated to get it fixed.

All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Tidewater_Kid · March 21, 2016, 08:01 PM

Since they have pictures, I look at Numrich.

Is it part number 60 in this drawing?
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufact...246.htm?page=3

Have you called them?

You might also try:
http://www.gun-parts.com/iverjohnson/

I would call and not depend on internet listings. Get the correct part first and then find you smith.

I have two .32 top breaks and they are the devil to work on.

TK

The Rattler · March 22, 2016, 09:00 AM

Thank you very much for this response.

The problem is that I have no idea, whatsoever, whether the part identified in the schematic is the proper part. I just have no concept of that. I wish I did, but I don't. All I know is that the gunsmith ordered a spring from Numerich (gunsparts.com) and that the part supplied matched the name of the part needed, but was not what this gun needed. He said something like the part supplied was not for an older model, like this gun. That appeared to me as a guess on his part.

What I need is an experienced and knowledgeable gunsmith who knows how to describe precisely the part that is needed to a supplier, or have the skill and time to make the spring from scratch.

Any help will be appreciated.

g.willikers · March 22, 2016, 09:39 AM

An age old problem.
Guns that don't have much value and need fixing that can cost more than they're worth.
Gunsmithing charges for handmade parts ain't cheap.
There must be thousands like it collecting dust.
If all else fails, and you want to shoot it, just poke the empties out with a dowel, like some of the rimfire versions of the day.

TomADC · March 22, 2016, 02:40 PM

If they are chambered in 32 S&W Short check this

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-...--SandW-SHORT/

James K · March 22, 2016, 04:18 PM

You say you broke the spring, so I assume you know how to remove the cam. That spring does nothing but apply tension to the cam, keeping it from rattling around loose. The gun will work without it. I would take out the cam, find a piece of spring (one source is to cut it from a binder clip), bend it into a "U", then put it in upside down, in other words with the open ends inserted into the cam and the round end protruding into the hole. It won't go anywhere and will apply the proper tension to the cam.

Jim

The Rattler · March 23, 2016, 08:05 AM

What I did was break open the action & turn the cylinder counter clockwise a number of times trying to remove the cylinder. Before doing that, the cartridges automatically extracted. Now they don't. I got that procedure from 3 YouTube videos, but my gunsmith said it was an improper way to remove the cylinder.

The truth is that I would not recognize this part if I saw it. I simply don't have that knowledge. What I need is recommendations of gunsmiths who may be able to fix this problem.

Thank you for all of your responses, but I need a referral to a gunsmith.

James K · March 23, 2016, 12:44 PM

In most IJ's the cylinder is removed by opening the gun in the normal way, then holding the latch up (open) and pulling back on the cylinder while turning it counter clockwise.

I erred in the function of the cam spring; it serves to hold the cam into position to operate the ejector so if it is broken, you would have failure to eject. What I don't understand is how removing the cylinder could affect the cam spring, which is inside the hinge. But the fix is as I described it above.

If you want a referral to a gunsmith, you will have to say where you are located. Your best bet is the yellow pages or inquiry at local gun shops.

I will note that most gunsmiths won't even work on those guns. They are tricky and frustrating and gunsmiths have better and more profitable ways to spend an afternoon than doing repairs which would cost more than the gun is worth. As to shipping the gun to a gunsmith, the gun might go USPS if it is an antique, but if not the shipping costs will be very high and only add to the high cost of the work.

Jim

The Rattler · March 23, 2016, 09:31 PM

I live in the Dallas Texas area.

Again, thanks for your responses.

March 21, 2016, 07:49 PM	#1
The Rattler Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2013 Posts: 111	Iver Johnson Top Break I have a friend's Iver Johnson Top Break 32 cal revolver. I was told in a thread in December 2014 of this forum that since the hammer spring is a coil, and not flat, it was designed to firm modern cartridges. However, I broke the Cam Center Spring of this revolver. I did so by trying to remove the cylinder following instructions of several Youtube videos. I took it to my gunsmith who said the method I used was improper. The gunsmith ordered a replacement part from gunparts.com. Unfortunately, that part did not work on this gun. The gunsmith then tried to "make" a cam spring for it, but was unsuccessful in doing so. He kept the gun for a little over one year, but because he is very busy, I don't think he spent sufficient time to resolve the problem. That is not to say he did not spend time trying, just not enough time to fix it. Of course he did not charge me anything. But this leaves me in a "pickle." I need to find a gunsmith who has enough background to know what type of cam spring to order, and who to order it from. Alternatively, I need to find a gunsmith who has the skill and background to make one. Since this is not my gun and I broke it, I feel obligated to get it fixed. All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

March 22, 2016, 09:00 AM	#3
The Rattler Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2013 Posts: 111	Spring for 32 Iver Johnson Thank you very much for this response. The problem is that I have no idea, whatsoever, whether the part identified in the schematic is the proper part. I just have no concept of that. I wish I did, but I don't. All I know is that the gunsmith ordered a spring from Numerich (gunsparts.com) and that the part supplied matched the name of the part needed, but was not what this gun needed. He said something like the part supplied was not for an older model, like this gun. That appeared to me as a guess on his part. What I need is an experienced and knowledgeable gunsmith who knows how to describe precisely the part that is needed to a supplier, or have the skill and time to make the spring from scratch. Any help will be appreciated.

March 22, 2016, 09:39 AM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	An age old problem. Guns that don't have much value and need fixing that can cost more than they're worth. Gunsmithing charges for handmade parts ain't cheap. There must be thousands like it collecting dust. If all else fails, and you want to shoot it, just poke the empties out with a dowel, like some of the rimfire versions of the day. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

March 22, 2016, 02:40 PM	#5
TomADC Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: San Diego County Posts: 795	If they are chambered in 32 S&W Short check this https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-...--SandW-SHORT/ __________________ US Navy Retired,NRA Life Member,SASS member, Time magazine's Person of the Year 2006!

March 23, 2016, 08:05 AM	#7
The Rattler Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2013 Posts: 111	Iver Johnson What I did was break open the action & turn the cylinder counter clockwise a number of times trying to remove the cylinder. Before doing that, the cartridges automatically extracted. Now they don't. I got that procedure from 3 YouTube videos, but my gunsmith said it was an improper way to remove the cylinder. The truth is that I would not recognize this part if I saw it. I simply don't have that knowledge. What I need is recommendations of gunsmiths who may be able to fix this problem. Thank you for all of your responses, but I need a referral to a gunsmith.

March 21, 2016, 08:01 PM	#2
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	Since they have pictures, I look at Numrich. Is it part number 60 in this drawing? http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufact...246.htm?page=3 Have you called them? You might also try: http://www.gun-parts.com/iverjohnson/ I would call and not depend on internet listings. Get the correct part first and then find you smith. I have two .32 top breaks and they are the devil to work on. TK

March 22, 2016, 04:18 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	You say you broke the spring, so I assume you know how to remove the cam. That spring does nothing but apply tension to the cam, keeping it from rattling around loose. The gun will work without it. I would take out the cam, find a piece of spring (one source is to cut it from a binder clip), bend it into a "U", then put it in upside down, in other words with the open ends inserted into the cam and the round end protruding into the hole. It won't go anywhere and will apply the proper tension to the cam. Jim

March 23, 2016, 12:44 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	In most IJ's the cylinder is removed by opening the gun in the normal way, then holding the latch up (open) and pulling back on the cylinder while turning it counter clockwise. I erred in the function of the cam spring; it serves to hold the cam into position to operate the ejector so if it is broken, you would have failure to eject. What I don't understand is how removing the cylinder could affect the cam spring, which is inside the hinge. But the fix is as I described it above. If you want a referral to a gunsmith, you will have to say where you are located. Your best bet is the yellow pages or inquiry at local gun shops. I will note that most gunsmiths won't even work on those guns. They are tricky and frustrating and gunsmiths have better and more profitable ways to spend an afternoon than doing repairs which would cost more than the gun is worth. As to shipping the gun to a gunsmith, the gun might go USPS if it is an antique, but if not the shipping costs will be very high and only add to the high cost of the work. Jim

March 23, 2016, 09:31 PM	#9
The Rattler Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2013 Posts: 111	Iver Johnson I live in the Dallas Texas area. Again, thanks for your responses.