The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Lock and Load: Live Fire Exercises

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 4, 2011, 10:18 PM   #1
mnero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2011
Location: east coast
Posts: 244
.38 snub nose shooting

What is the most accurate way to shoot a .38 snub? I have an unsteady right hand do to a previous injury. I usually shoot left handed or right handed with the left hand steadying the right, in the typical two handed fashion.
I have a S&W snub with a 2" barrel; SA DA model 10-7. Even when I use it SA, at 25', I just can't get good groups or any groups
Can you all describe to me exactly the stance and grip you use when firing a similar pistol. Thanks in advance!
__________________
"I'm what ya call a 'conscientious objector'; you know a coward". Bender "futurama"

Last edited by mnero; May 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM.
mnero is offline  
Old May 4, 2011, 10:38 PM   #2
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 11,061
Get as high a grip as possible. Grip the revolver firmly but not tight with your right hand (shooting right handed).

Use your left or support hand to tightly grip the right hand and revolver.

Most of the pressure would be with the left or support hand.

Holding the grip too tight with the right hand causes the revolver to move when you press the trigger.

To determine the proper grip pressure, adjust the grip of the right hand until you can press the trigger without disturbing the sights WHILE DRY FIRING. Try different grip pressure to see how it affects the sights. Light to tight.

This is best determined dry firing with a laser sight.

If you have problems with your right hand it shouldn't matter since the grip pressure (in your case) would be from the left hand.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old May 4, 2011, 10:48 PM   #3
Code3GT
Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 40
Awesome thread. Just shot my new s&w 642 snubby the other day and couldn't get on paper at 15' at first. It takes a lot of practice. It was suggested to me to practice with wadcutters and not full power loads at first. Also Google Jerry Miculek's video on revolver grip. Basically you want a square finger placement, high grip and non-dominant thumb over the other. High rear, low barrel.
__________________
Operation Iraqi Freedom/Enduring Freedom - USAF

"Paramedics postpone the inevitible"
Code3GT is offline  
Old May 4, 2011, 10:52 PM   #4
mnero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2011
Location: east coast
Posts: 244
Captain; after dry firing the pistol as you said, just a few times; the difference in both how it felt and the steadiness of the weapon were markedly improved! No one in the service ever told me about placing the pressure with the left hand; wow what a difference. I will keep training and report the results, when I get back to the range. Thank you, Sir!
__________________
"I'm what ya call a 'conscientious objector'; you know a coward". Bender "futurama"

Last edited by mnero; May 4, 2011 at 11:26 PM.
mnero is offline  
Old May 4, 2011, 11:46 PM   #5
shootniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,599
These tips are great to get you started off correctly with the snub. Just be aware that if you are going to carry the snub for self defense, it is essential that you also become proficient shooting it with one hand as defense situations many times will not allow time for two-handed shooting. It takes a lot of dry fire and range practice to accomplish this and maintain it, but it can be done.
shootniron is offline  
Old May 4, 2011, 11:47 PM   #6
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 11,061
I aim to please
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old May 5, 2011, 08:49 PM   #7
mnero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2011
Location: east coast
Posts: 244
I went to the indoor range today. The groups where between 1" and 2"; a definite improvement. I still need to find the center a bit more, but I did have a few shots on the X. This was at 25'. I still need practise, but a real improvement. Thanks for the tip Captain!
__________________
"I'm what ya call a 'conscientious objector'; you know a coward". Bender "futurama"
mnero is offline  
Old July 1, 2011, 06:05 AM   #8
locnload
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2010
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 118
Mnero, Being on the east coast, if you ever get the chance to train with a guy named Claude Werner, take it. I attended a two or three hour class with him at the Polite Society Tacticle Conference in Tulsa OK in May. The guy is ammazing with a snub 38, and one of the best instructors I have seen. He will give you a whole new outlook on your ability with the snubby. I think he sells Real Estate for a regular job and he looks the part, a mild mannered 50 something tall skinny guy with thinning hair. But when you read his bio you find he has a list of IDPA and other championships, and several years in Army Airborn and Special Forces including as an A-Tean leader. Make it a goal, find out where he is teaching and get there.
locnload is offline  
Old July 1, 2011, 07:50 AM   #9
Unistat76
Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2011
Location: SE Michigan, near Detroit.
Posts: 40
As you shoot (and dry fire) your J-frames the trigger will get much smoother. The difference between mine, which I shoot all the time and my wife's which is shot rarely, is noticiable.

I really enjoy the challenge of the J-frame.
__________________
There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the Moon Landing and those that don't.
http://unistat76.blogspot.com/
Unistat76 is offline  
Old July 1, 2011, 08:39 AM   #10
Deja vu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2010
Location: Border of Idaho & Montana
Posts: 2,584
J-frames are hard to get use to. All so once you get use to them you need to keep up the practice or else you start loosing the skill faster then you would with most guns.
__________________
Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...
Deja vu is offline  
Old July 1, 2011, 11:19 AM   #11
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Dry fire is useful for any gun; some need snap caps to avoid damage, but proper dry fire is always good. It's also free.

I'm not going to argue with Jerry Miculek, even if I don't personally put my supporting thumb over the back of my firing hand. I mostly shoot semi-autos, and personally just don't want the habit pattern ingrained.

Some J-frames are harder to shoot than other J-frames. Of my two 442s, the one I took in trade, LNIB, had a great trigger. The one I bought, NIB, had a 15lb trigger - heavy, but at least smooth. I installed an APEX kit, and now it has a 9lb, still smooth trigger and it is much easier to shoot.

I may have missed it, if somebody already said this, but changing grips can also help. I have fairly large hands, and the old-school J-frame grips don't cut it. I need a Tyler T adapter with those. The new grips that come on the 442 work ok; rubber with palm swell and finger groove. I just bought some slightly oversized Altamonts, since I like wood, but haven't had a chance to try them yet.

It's hard to shoot a gun you can't get a grip on.
MLeake is offline  
Old July 1, 2011, 12:10 PM   #12
Poodleshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 7, 2000
Location: Floating down the James River in VA
Posts: 2,599
There's no humbling for your revolver skills like shooting your j-frame at 20yds against a 3-4" steel target. :barf:
The Miculek videos are very handy. I'm still experimenting with my grip pressure to keep my fingers from twitching the gun during that long heavy trigger pull.
Poodleshooter is offline  
Old July 15, 2011, 06:58 PM   #13
Glenn E. Meyer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
Wandering in late. I would like to second Claude. I took his class at krtraining.com and wrote it up for Pax at Concealed Carry. There are quite a few AARs on the course.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old July 15, 2011, 07:13 PM   #14
Nnobby45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,150
Quote:
Get as high a grip as possible. Grip the revolver firmly but not tight with your right hand (shooting right handed).
Many give this advice, but I've found that the highest grip possible puts the edge of the tang right into the web of the hand and thumps the crap out of it. Small snubbies, and larger revolvers, also.

Even Jerry Miculek says that lowering the grip so the gun can flex is appropriate for hard recoilers.

High grip, yes, but low enough so the gun can flex during recoil. Leave a little tang showing (try about 1/2 inch). Try it both ways and see for yourself.

For those who grip so high that the tang completely disappears, no problem if it works for them.
Nnobby45 is offline  
Old July 15, 2011, 07:38 PM   #15
40caljustice
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2011
Location: Chesterfield Va
Posts: 199
I shot a groundhog Wednesday with my great aunt's Taurus .38 snubby. 30 steps away. The first shot went high due to over compensation. The groundhog just sat there looking around. The second shot I held dead nuts and I rolled him about 4 times. I was ecstatic. My first time shooting a snub revolver. My aunt does this about 3 times a week from her screened porch. . She is 70 and carries the pistol everyday. Whadda woman!!
40caljustice is offline  
Old July 15, 2011, 07:43 PM   #16
Nnobby45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,150
You did it the right way---right? Double action.
Nnobby45 is offline  
Old July 15, 2011, 08:01 PM   #17
40caljustice
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2011
Location: Chesterfield Va
Posts: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nnobby45 View Post
You did it the right way---right? Double action.
Nope. I cheated. Sorry. . Hahahahahs
40caljustice is offline  
Old July 16, 2011, 07:28 PM   #18
Rob228
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2010
Location: Hampstead NC
Posts: 1,450
I just bought a 642 yesterday, my first snubby, after two range trips and about two hundred rounds I learned the following:

The grips aren't great (however I am going to try to shoot another 300 rounds spread out evenly over the next month before I change anything on it).

Over 100 rounds per visit does not work out so well for me, I'm missing some skin on the webbing of my hand.

I shrunk my group size considerably when I forced myself to stop staging the trigger.

It is a hard pistol to shoot well but really rewarding when I do.
Rob228 is offline  
Old July 16, 2011, 07:53 PM   #19
mavracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: midwest
Posts: 4,209
Quote:
This is best determined dry firing with a laser sight.
Dry firing with a laser is a great way to work on trigger control especially with a snub.
__________________
rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Quote:
originally posted my Mike Irwin
My handguns are are for one purpose only, though...
The starter gun on the "Fat man's mad dash tactical retreat."
mavracer is offline  
Old July 16, 2011, 08:08 PM   #20
Shadi Khalil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 5,210
My biggest problem with shooting my snub is sight acquisition during rapid fire. However, that is expected since the gun has practically no sights. Other than that, they are no more difficult to shoot than any other small handgun.
Shadi Khalil is offline  
Old July 16, 2011, 09:03 PM   #21
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
I painted the front sight of my 442 with gold metallic nail polish.

Problem was, it wouldn't always show up well against buff colored targets.

So I removed the lower half of the nail polish. Bottom of front sight is black, upper is gold metallic. Makes it easy to pick up against black or colored or buff targets.
MLeake is offline  
Old July 24, 2011, 09:05 PM   #22
Cowboy_mo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,039
I painted the front sight on my SP 101 with a florescent orange nail polish and it made target acquisition super easy regardless of the color target.
Cowboy_mo is offline  
Old November 7, 2011, 08:19 AM   #23
Viper225
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2009
Location: SC Missouri
Posts: 663
Try a Bright Green.
I have Sight Bright Green sight paint on the upper half of my front sight on my 638, 64, and 625 3". It works great outdoors.

For low light a tritium front sight is probably THE answer.

My 2 Cents
My recomendation is to shoot as lite of loads as you can get for practice with a J Frame until you get comfortable with it. When you start to feel confident in your ability shooting it, add 5 rounds of warmer ammo (Still Standard Pressure) the last 5 shots of your range session. When you get comfortable with the last 5 rounds of warmer ammo progress on. From this point you might want to add 5 rounds of +P after the warmer ammo.

Get some Snap Caps for additional Trigger Time. Using Snap Caps you are: Building up your trigger finger.
Breaking in the gun more without the wear and tear of firing it.
Getting quality time in with the gun without recoil being a consideration, or ammunition being an expense.
(If you flench dry firing you know you did it. Recoil can hide a flench with live ammo)

You could get 2 sets of snap caps and do a practice reload using them also.

Bob
Viper225 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.06912 seconds with 10 queries