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Old September 6, 2017, 02:59 PM   #1
simonrichter
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.223 for short barreled AR plattforms?

I'm about to purchase an AR15 platform with a 10.5" barrel. One of the cons of this setting seems to be (I have no first hand experience so far) extensive muzzle blast and bang. Is there a type of ammo that might help mitigate this problem, something with faster burning powder maybe?
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Old September 6, 2017, 05:56 PM   #2
Bartholomew Roberts
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Ammo will not mitigate the problem to any practical degree. Some of the powders with a flash suppressant can help cut down on the giant orange donut, as will a good flash suppressor. Ultimately though, it is going to be loud and blasty unless you add some type of silencer.
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Old September 6, 2017, 07:56 PM   #3
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Linear muzzle brake toned my 10.5 pistol down, but probably not indoors. It just sends the blast in the forward direction. You'll feel a small increase in recoil, also enhanced by the rifle weighing less.
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Old September 6, 2017, 07:57 PM   #4
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Ridiculously loud doesn't even begin to describe it. Think brain damage loud.

Your shooting buddies will love it.
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Old September 6, 2017, 07:57 PM   #5
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Yep... short barreled 556 guns are loud and concussive. Just no getting around that fact, short of a $200 tax stamp and a good can
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Old September 6, 2017, 09:57 PM   #6
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Ridiculously loud doesn't even begin to describe it. Think brain damage loud.

The above is almost perfect . I have both a 11.5 and 10.5 inch barrel lengths and use various types of flash cans, in my experience the only one a flash can benefits is the shooter. I use a three prong muzzle device inside a flash mini flash can. It is bearable with quality ear pro outdoors, indoors I would only set one off to save my life.
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Old September 8, 2017, 11:03 AM   #7
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Forget choosing fast powder. Pick the powder that gives you the best accuracy.

If the "blast" bothers you, wear double ear protection or better yet use a suppressor.

Be careful with pressure if you attempt the fast powder route. Personally I'm more in to accuracy then reducing noise. I can work on that problem after I get a rifle to shoot.
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Old September 8, 2017, 12:59 PM   #8
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You also get the added benefit of practically nuetering the round by slowing it down even more.

Shoot it indoors, alot.
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Old September 8, 2017, 03:37 PM   #9
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I have a couple of the 10.5" AR's and dont find them to be at all obnoxious to shoot. Nothing like my kids 7.5".

I use cheap ear plugs for ear protection, and my ears are sensitive, and its not an issue at all. I do shoot outdoors though.

I do have and use a suppressor as well, and I can shoot them without hearing protection when mounted, although I do "feel" it a bit sooner than I do from my 16" guns.

The suppressor mount is an AAC BO FH/mount and basically eliminates flash, even with the shorter barrels. I have yet to see any noticeable flash.

Other than for critters, I just shoot both factory and my reloads. Except for the critter loads, my reloads are basically the same as USGI 55 grain ball.

Critter loads are 55 grain Nosler BT's over 4895 running about 3000fps. Work great out of the 10.5" barrels too. With the suppressor mounted, you can hear the "pop" (sounds like a loud ballon pop) as the bunnies in the garden go meat grenade.
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Old September 9, 2017, 07:02 AM   #10
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I have a 10.5 that gets used as our main line of defense to protect our livestock on the homestead. I use handloads consisting of 75gr Hornady bthp and reloader 15. It's been used on skunks, racoons, and some coyotes out to 100yds. It is loud and makes a heck of a fireball when fired at night but it always gets the job done.
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Old September 10, 2017, 02:07 AM   #11
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For many years, I couldn't figure out why Remington created the .221 Fireball for the XP-100 pistol. Besides the obvious, one more Remington product to buy, why not chamber it in .222 or .223???

Then, when I got into shooting 10" barrel .222 Contender, the answer became obvious. You simply cannot burn all the powder in a 10" barrel.

Simply put, in a .223, you are burning 10-15% MORE powder than a .221, and its mostly just going out the muzzle as increased blast.

There's no free lunch, and the convenience of a short barrel means extra blast. Adding a suppressor tames the blast, but adds extra length that negates the advantages of a short barrel.
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Old September 10, 2017, 08:58 AM   #12
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Hehe, "brain damage" loud, I like it. My wife's MK107 Diablo is exactly that (7-3/4").

I'm planning on making a load with slightly faster powder, and using 77gr Sierra Match Kings as a good defensive load.

The noise? Double up on ear protection, shooting in open spaces, or use a suppressor. I think those are your only real options.

One time we had a LGS host a little suppressor get-together at our range, and the owner brought out this little SBR monster he built (8" barrel 5.56) with a 4" suppressor. With a 4" suppressor, it kind of felt like it put the muzzle blast level equivalent to my 20" AR, as a comparison. If I suppress the wife's gun, it'll probably be something like a silencerco hybrid that does a pretty good job at what it does at cost to length.
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Old September 10, 2017, 11:17 AM   #13
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and using 77gr Sierra Match Kings as a good defensive load.
I am curious why you think a 77gr (heavy for caliber) MATCH bullet (not recommended by the maker for hunting anything larger than varmints), at the (compared to a rifle) low speed you will get from a pistol length barrel (2400fps???) would make a good "defensive" load.
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Old September 10, 2017, 12:06 PM   #14
Bartholomew Roberts
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While the Mk262 Mod 1 77gr SMK load has been a popular military load for a decade now, the shortest barrels those are routinely used in are 10.3" - and the military has a lot of restrictions we don't. The way the 77gr is effective is it upsets because of the long length and breaks apart due to velocity, spraying the temporary cavity with fragments. However, I think the minimum velocity where that can occur (as opposed to where it reliably occurs) is around 2150fps.

75gr Hornady out of my 16" is clocking about 2586fps. You can get a little faster with Superperformance or 5.56 pressure loads; but accuracy suffers. Out of a 8" barrel, I doubt 77gr even has a muzzle velocity of 2150fps. So best case scenario is the bullet yaws before it exits.

If you stuck using such a short barrel, the Barnes 50gr TSX doesn't rely on yaw to be effective, has a higher velocity, and the all copper construction retains weight (which you'll need shooting 200lb mammals with a 50gr projectile).
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Old September 10, 2017, 12:29 PM   #15
simonrichter
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So, back to the original topic: Is a 10,5" .223, shot in the open with both plugs and muffs still a danger to the shooter's hearing or not?
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Old September 10, 2017, 12:49 PM   #16
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So, back to the original topic: Is a 10,5" .223, shot in the open with both plugs and muffs still a danger to the shooter's hearing or not?
With good quality plugs and muffs, no, it will not be damaging to your hearing.
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Old September 10, 2017, 01:31 PM   #17
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Just to those off to the sides. And in the general vicinity.
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Old September 10, 2017, 01:56 PM   #18
rickyrick
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I generally shoot alone. But the shooter's experience can vary wildly with different muzzle devices. I don't recall it being too bad with just the muff style hearing protection.
The linear compensator is the cheapest solution really. It doesn't change the noise, just sends it in a different direction.
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Old September 10, 2017, 05:53 PM   #19
Bartholomew Roberts
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No, you are borderline hearing safe with just muffs or plugs, so doubling up, you'll be fine. You'll definitely feel it though if there is any kind of overhead and it will blow stuff off a bench.
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Old September 11, 2017, 06:50 AM   #20
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Yes, it just comes in 300 blackout instead
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Old September 11, 2017, 10:08 AM   #21
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Speaking strictly for myself, I have never seen any reason to get "grenade nose" with 218 Bee performance.
I like 16" barrels minimum. The pistol lengths, and SBRs I have used (quite a lot of them) never gave me any real-world advantage at all, and had some negatives that I see no reason to accept.

Most people who own them think they are "cool" but they have never been able to intelligently explain why they are to me, and I can't see any "coolness" in them at all.
But as I said in the 1st line, that's just how I see it. Others may disagree.
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Old September 11, 2017, 10:35 AM   #22
hdwhit
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Quote:
simonrichter wrote:
Is there a type of ammo that might help mitigate this problem, something with faster burning powder maybe?
I am not aware of any commercially available ammunition specifically loaded for short barreled rifles.

If you reload, you can more nearly match the speed of the powder to the short barrel, but even there your options are limited since you have to generate enough gas pressure to operate the action before the barrel clears the muzzle.
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Old September 11, 2017, 01:08 PM   #23
lordvader
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IMOP, AR15 rifles/pistols are about as worthless as TOAB. The cartridge's full potential is lost in that short barrel.
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