What is the residue left from shooting the Russian steel and lacquered cases?

jrothWA · August 17, 2018, 08:32 AM

and how to clean it from a 9mm barrel?
What is a best solvent for softening and removing?

Thanks.

Bartholomew Roberts · August 17, 2018, 08:52 AM

Some people claim it is the lacquer from the case; but I have never been able to melt lacquer off the steel case with more time and higher temperatures than a rifle chamber is likely to see, let alone a pistol.

Plus the gunk is inevitably red - the exact same red as the neck sealant commonly used on Russian ammo. So my hypothesis is it is the neck sealant. If you aren’t shooting steel ammo with a neck sealant (usually a thin red line where bullet meets case; but it can be colorless also), then that’s probably not it.

As for solvent, I couldn’t comment as I don’t shoot a lot of Russian ammo or clean up after it if I can avoid it.

KyJim · August 17, 2018, 10:54 AM

I've only shot smaller amounts of 9mm steel-cased Russian ammo but I've never had any problem in getting the gunk out with Hoppes #9 and a bronze bore brush.

Ignition Override · August 25, 2018, 11:36 PM

I've never seen a description of the lacquer's appearance, color etc. Even gun shop staff seem unable to describe it.
There's no proof that the lacquer melts below the temperature of an actual blowtorch.

Some of the issues are what people Don't want to admit: they don't clean their guns while using steel-cased ammo (residue accumulates around rigid metal). They Then use softer, brass-cased ammo which expands, and cases can get stuck.

Or they simply repeat totally vague stories about steel ammo in order to help sell overpriced brass-cased ammo.

In stark contrast to the vast amount of hearsay which people often choose to believe and repeat,
the only weird issues I've experienced are with US-made Winchester "white box" and "Forged" (brown & black boxes). In my German-proofed, 1998 Sig P225 and CZ 'PCR' etc, Russian Tula is much better than these brands of Winchester ammo.

PzGren · August 26, 2018, 06:47 AM

Ignition Override is spot on. The steel case mouth does not expand as much as brass and it leads to more carbon blow back. The gas seal is worse and when soft brass, that expands much more, is used without prior cleaning, the friction to extract the case will be increased. The good news is that the carbon residue will adhere to the brass and get extracted along with the brass, the bad news is, that a soft rim might shear off.

The remedy is simple, clean your gun after using steel cases, especially before switching back to brass. I use Ed's Red.

jrothWA · August 27, 2018, 08:38 PM

reassembled the M39-2 and went to range to function fire using 1978era factory ammo, about 17 rounds.

Loaded three round of R-P 115 HP factory, and had no prolblems, impacts were slightly higher with the nickled front and black raer blade combination.

Switched over to some PMC 115 gr FMJ. all rounds fired and ejected fine, except the final round that locked up the action.

Took a long punch and placed into the muzzle and against the inside case base, and push against the work table front to open the action.

Examined the case, noting the frosting around the case body.
Plugged the chamber with a neoprene stopper and filled bore with fresh Hoppe's, in the morning took a used .45 brush chucked into a cordless drill and rotated for thirty seconds and thru the bore for eight passes.

Soaked overnight again and repeated the brushing, then patched the bore and looked at chamber with a jewelers' loupe. the forward 2/3-rds of chamber had fine pitting observed and had gunsmith look at it. We decided to order a replacement barrel.

After the New Year's will have the frame refinished.

Thanks for all feedback.

Ben Dover · August 30, 2018, 01:20 PM

Or as my 1st Sgt said:
"Take care of your weapon and your weapon will take care of you."

Clean and lube it after using.

August 17, 2018, 08:32 AM	#1
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	What is the residue left from shooting the Russian steel and lacquered cases? and how to clean it from a 9mm barrel? What is a best solvent for softening and removing? Thanks.

August 25, 2018, 11:36 PM	#4
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	I've never seen a description of the lacquer's appearance, color etc. Even gun shop staff seem unable to describe it. There's no proof that the lacquer melts below the temperature of an actual blowtorch. Some of the issues are what people Don't want to admit: they don't clean their guns while using steel-cased ammo (residue accumulates around rigid metal). They Then use softer, brass-cased ammo which expands, and cases can get stuck. Or they simply repeat totally vague stories about steel ammo in order to help sell overpriced brass-cased ammo. In stark contrast to the vast amount of hearsay which people often choose to believe and repeat, the only weird issues I've experienced are with US-made Winchester "white box" and "Forged" (brown & black boxes). In my German-proofed, 1998 Sig P225 and CZ 'PCR' etc, Russian Tula is much better than these brands of Winchester ammo. Last edited by Ignition Override; August 25, 2018 at 11:44 PM.

August 27, 2018, 08:38 PM	#6
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	Follow-up... reassembled the M39-2 and went to range to function fire using 1978era factory ammo, about 17 rounds. Loaded three round of R-P 115 HP factory, and had no prolblems, impacts were slightly higher with the nickled front and black raer blade combination. Switched over to some PMC 115 gr FMJ. all rounds fired and ejected fine, except the final round that locked up the action. Took a long punch and placed into the muzzle and against the inside case base, and push against the work table front to open the action. Examined the case, noting the frosting around the case body. Plugged the chamber with a neoprene stopper and filled bore with fresh Hoppe's, in the morning took a used .45 brush chucked into a cordless drill and rotated for thirty seconds and thru the bore for eight passes. Soaked overnight again and repeated the brushing, then patched the bore and looked at chamber with a jewelers' loupe. the forward 2/3-rds of chamber had fine pitting observed and had gunsmith look at it. We decided to order a replacement barrel. After the New Year's will have the frame refinished. Thanks for all feedback.

August 30, 2018, 01:20 PM	#7
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	Or as my 1st Sgt said: "Take care of your weapon and your weapon will take care of you." Clean and lube it after using. __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

August 17, 2018, 08:52 AM	#2
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Some people claim it is the lacquer from the case; but I have never been able to melt lacquer off the steel case with more time and higher temperatures than a rifle chamber is likely to see, let alone a pistol. Plus the gunk is inevitably red - the exact same red as the neck sealant commonly used on Russian ammo. So my hypothesis is it is the neck sealant. If you aren’t shooting steel ammo with a neck sealant (usually a thin red line where bullet meets case; but it can be colorless also), then that’s probably not it. As for solvent, I couldn’t comment as I don’t shoot a lot of Russian ammo or clean up after it if I can avoid it.

August 17, 2018, 10:54 AM	#3
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	I've only shot smaller amounts of 9mm steel-cased Russian ammo but I've never had any problem in getting the gunk out with Hoppes #9 and a bronze bore brush.

August 26, 2018, 06:47 AM	#5
PzGren Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2001 Posts: 1,260	Ignition Override is spot on. The steel case mouth does not expand as much as brass and it leads to more carbon blow back. The gas seal is worse and when soft brass, that expands much more, is used without prior cleaning, the friction to extract the case will be increased. The good news is that the carbon residue will adhere to the brass and get extracted along with the brass, the bad news is, that a soft rim might shear off. The remedy is simple, clean your gun after using steel cases, especially before switching back to brass. I use Ed's Red.