223 powder selection from the old days

[Rej59]

Anyone senior enough here to recall what powder types were considered optimum for grouping accuracy (max velocity not a factor) by the original bench shooters back in the day when the civilian versions of the Remington 223 cal had slow twist rates like 1:14 in their bolt rifles?
The reason I am asking is that I want to shoot 40 to 55 gr flat base hollow points from a 1:14 twist bolt rifle with a 22 inch barrel. My situation is as follows.......back in 2017, I purchased a Model 783 chambered in 223 that had an assembly line SNAFU with a wrong twist rate of 1:14 instead of the called upon 1:9 ( video as I measure the rifling rate ) We can't hunt with this caliber in Canada so I was mainly just bench shooting it from 100 to 200 yards; not being able to fire longer heavier bullets up to 70 gr is not critical for me.
Anyways, I elected to keep this rifle as an oddball and did not forward for a barrel replacement; aside from the slow rifling, I do like the concept of the model 783 & price range. I will simply restrict it to warmer summer weather & shooting the shorter light bullets, thus my search for which powder was mostly utilized with something like a 40 gr and 1:14 combo. Was IMR 4198 one of them?

[Dufus]

I have used IMR 4198 with great success. With a nominal charge, >3600 fps is attainable without going hot.

Also, RE 7 will shoot almost as good and greater velocity. I found it to be not as accurate a IMR 4198 but not by much.

BLC(2) is another good one and an oldie.

IMR 4198 has the best temp stability out of the bunch.

[Mike Irwin]

The two people I knew who loaded .223 for competition both used BLC-2.

[Unclenick]

Rej59,

Welcome to the forum.

4198 was, indeed, a popular powder in the 222 Rem benchrest days and can carry over to 223. Since then, though, other appropriate powders have become available. Reloader 10X is specifically designed for use with light bullets in this kind of application and is a little slower than 4198, which fits it into the 223 pressure and velocity range a little better. Slightly slower possibilities are Benchmark or H322, though they will be best for the heaviest bullets in your range.

I have a 222 Remington with 14" twist and was never able to get the 52 or 55-grain boattail match bullets to shoot great groups with it. The flat base 50 grain bullets were what it drilled cloverleafs with. You'll have more velocity, so I expect the 53 grain flat base Sierra MatchKing is another bullet that may do well for you. The 35 and 40 grain bullets are likely to do well, too.

[BBarn]

Though introduced a little later than some of the other early powders, H335 is a good performer in the 223.

[hounddawg]

What you need to do is buy or borrow a copy of Ken Waters Pet Loads. In the complete book he has 3 sections. One dating back to pre 1980, then a 1980 update and a October 2000 update. A lot of the powders even as far back as the 60's and 70's section are still available today and some of them I have never heard of.

a couple of the early accuracy powders were 748-BR and 760-BR, good luck finding those. Winchester might be able to give advice on substituting the more modern versions of those powders though. He does list a 1/2 MOA load with 4895 and Remmington Power-Loc 55 grainers and a few other readily available powders

It is a great book with a lot more than just load recipes. I highly recommend that any serious reloader should have it on his or her bookshelf

https://www.amazon.com/Pet-Loads-Com.../dp/1879356643

[Unclenick]

BBarn,

H335 is canister grade WC844, which has been in 5.56 Ball ammunition since the 1960's. It came about because the military tried to make WC846 (7.62 Ball ammunition powder sold in canister grade as BL-(C)2) work, and it proved a little too slow for the light 5.56 Ball bullets. However, they had success with a setaside lot of WC846 that was faster burning than normal. They contacted St. Marks (I've lost track of who owned it at the time; today it is General Dynamics) and asked them to make more of this fast version for 5.56 Ball. St. Marks didn't want the two powders confused, to the company created the Western Cannon 844 (WC844) designation for the faster version.

[std7mag]

Win 748 does well.
Check out Hodgdon's reloading website, or spend $8 and get their yearly "manual".

[old roper]

I shot BR about time 6ppc was replacing 222 and you could get 222 or one of the 22/6mm wildcats pretty cheap. I really don't remember 223 as some used 222mag case.

I shot IBS and NBRSA so those two handled all the short yardage BR 100yd thru 300yds. One target did get you anything you had to shoot 5 target, 5 shot group in 5 relays and average of those 5 target won that match. Conditions kill the 222 past 100yds and that reason for lot of the wildcats, something to get little more speed but have 222 accuracy. Some AI the 222 case and some AI the 222mag. I pick up 6x(222mag) with 45 degree shoulder and a 222AI and I got reamers dies everything for shooting varmints.

One of the things I still shot is tight neck 6ppc and a tight neck 222AI course barrels been replaced also in 1/14 twist barrel I shoot 223 with Krieger barrel,222 with Brux barrel,222mag Hart barrel,22BR with K&P barrel. I replace the 6x222mag with 243AI. I still shoot varmint with them but I have update powder/bullets and you can't bring back past accuracy. the group that beat Mcmillan small group was 30 cal. what going to beat that 30 cal record

[Average Joe]

W748 is an old time powder, and as an old timer, I still use it in .223.

[44 AMP]

W748 is an old time powder,

I guess that depends on your frame of reference. To me, NO ball powder is an "old time powder".

IMR 4198 works well in .222, does ok in .223. Can't say much about accuracy, I've never loaded the .223 for accuracy. No point. My .223s were a "Commando" AR-15 (Xm-177 lookalike) and a couple of Mini-14s, one made in 76, and the other a stainless 183 series, none of which were made with highest accuracy in mind.

[Rej59]

Thanks everyone for your feedback much appreciated. I ended up getting some IMR 4198 as I tend to prefer extruded powder over ball and loaded 10 rounds yesterday with some Sierra 40gr #1385 bullets. Now I just have to wait till the weather improves to test them. Utilizing these light bullets sure does not leave you with much interference fit between brass and bullet! Also the jump to lands with these shorter bullets is a lengthy .055 inches.

[Rej59]

What is extremely weird, is that it will fire Hornady 60 gr bullets that are .75 inch long (#2270) with 24 grains of IMR4320 powder and place a sub MOA group, best was .68 inches with 2845 FPS at 100 yards! Which according to the Miller twist rule, this bullet combo and a 1:14 inch twist rate should have minimal in-flight stability! I haven’t tried them at 200 yds maybe they would be all over the place. However, the same bullets with CFE223 powder generates as expected groups that are scattered around a 10 inch circle, these shots were all from 100 yards.

[44 AMP]

Each gun and ammo (component) combination can be unique. Most are very similar, but sometimes things are different than expected.

The books might say a given bullet & twist won't be accurate, and they're usually right, but you found a case where they are, with one powder, and aren't when a different powder is used. That's the quirks of an individual rifle and component combination.

All the reloading "rules" are really guidelines, and like most rules, one does find exceptions, here and there.

And, don't fret over the "long" bullet jump to the rifling when shooting short, light bullets. It might affect their accuracy, or it might not. Again, every combination can behave differently. If it is an issue, fine, but don't fret about it, unless it actually is.

Utilizing these light bullets sure does not leave you with much interference fit between brass and bullet

A general rule of thumb is to seat bullets so at least one caliber of the full diameter is held by the case neck. For a .22 that would mean at least .22" and more hurts nothing. Some say a half caliber of bullet hold is enough, but I'd be concerned about only having .11" of the bullet gripped by the case surviving field conditions. Ammo for range use, doesn't have to be as durable.

[hdwhit]

IMR-4198 was the first powder I used in 223/5.56. I made the choice purely on economic grounds as loads around 20 grains were a full charge while other powders needed upwards of 25 grains and that meant more shots per pound from IMR-4198.

During a mini-powder drought in the early 1980's, I also tried IMR-3031 and Winchester 748 with good results on bullets running from 40 grains to 60 grains.

[Mule]

Back in the day, shooting 50gr Blitz Kings, Accurate 2230 and then Surplus Accurate Data 2200, now Accurate 2200, did quite well for me.

[Ben Dover]

WW 748/ H335.

[Rej59]

Update…….no rain nor snow today and thus I went out and tested those Sierra 40 gr bullets with IMR 4198 and as you can see from the attached pic the grouping wasn’t so bad considering this was the first outing with this combo ( I did not bother with the chrono, thus nil velocity data ). So far I am happy with the outcome of this rifle’s 1:14 rifling screw-up.

[Rej59]

Also, today I took the opportunity to fire my remaining 69 gr Barnes Match Burners that I had reloaded prior to me realizing that the rifling was not 1:9. First time I had fired 4 of them was in the summer and I had started seeing some evidence of the entry holes not being round but as you can see by the attached pic, these have all key-holed approximately 37 degrees (as per my CAD program) because of the denser colder air and of course the rifling twist is only 1:14…….

[m&p45acp10+1]

If I could only have 2 (No way I could go with just 1.) They would be H-335 which is my 90% of the time powder. With lighter bullets in the 40 to 55 grain range it works wonders. With 55 grain V-Max it will turn most guns into tack drivers. For the 65 grain and up bullets I go to Reloader 15 or Varget. (If one works great the other should do just about as good.) With 68 grain HPBT match bullets your gun should drive tacks if it has the rifling to stabilize the heavier bullet.

[FM12]

H335 h322 ww748