Re-thinking carry at work

KyJim · May 27, 2006, 09:42 AM

I work in a secure(?) govt office with a number of LEO in the building (I am not LEO). There is a public entrance and employee only entrance. Both doors are locked with security cameras in place. When I get to my office, I normally secure my concealed weapon in a desk drawer. I never thought it necessary to carry to the restroom, etc. I've been re-thinking this given a recent event.

It seems a thief hid on the landing of some stairs, waited for an employee to leave and then hustled through the door before it could shut. He hid his face from the cameras. He stole a woman's credit card from her purse. To do this he had to walk by a room full of LEO.

If it had been some nut intent on doing harm, I may not have had enough time to retrieve a weapon if I was out of my office. What do you all think?

308Enfield · May 27, 2006, 09:56 AM

Jim, if you're allowed to carry at work I don't see any reason not to carry the whole time you're at work. In TN, it isn't legal to carry in state or federal offices, or on school property, even with a permit. Since I work at a university, that means I'm not allowed to carry at work at all

pax · May 27, 2006, 10:09 AM

It seems to me that the less often a gun is unnecessarily handled during the day, the less likely an unintentional discharge would be.

To my way of thinking, leaving a loaded gun riding in a holster on the hip is far safer and more secure than unholstering, unloading, checking, securing, reloading, and reholstering. All that extra handling really bothers me -- especially since it's difficult to find a safe direction in most offices or public places.

So for me, I would do everything in my power to avoid having to handle my firearm unnecessarily during the day.

pax

JoshB · May 27, 2006, 10:53 AM

Jim,

I definately would carry at work if I could. I'm one of those people who think of CC as the default method. I can't think of any reason why I would disarm myself when it was perfectly legal for me to be armed in that situation. why wait for something to go wrong for you to decide that you need to carry? Unfortunately for me, I work on a military instalation, and CC is not allowed.

Syntax360 · May 27, 2006, 01:54 PM

The odds are pretty slim that I'll ever be in a position to need my gun at work, but I have one on me at all times regardless. Seems one of the cardinal rules of conceal and carry is "you never know". I'm sure the vast majority of people who use their firearms in self-defense situations left their homes that morning knowing they weren't going to need it. We don't get warning, and situations seem to occur and end in an instant. Sounds to me like carrying all day wouldn't be a bad idea any way you cut it.

KyJim · May 27, 2006, 01:54 PM

In Ky., state law specifically prohibits a state agency from disarming those with CC licenses (even employees) except for in a few places (schools, colleges, courthouses, legislative chambers). I can legally carry so long as I don't display the weapon.

Hayley · May 28, 2006, 01:30 AM

Jim: raiding offices as you describe is a criminal specialty. I work at a Ky University which has been visited by several of these creeps over the years. Recently, I had a small TV stolen from mine, and a colleague an ipod, by a guy posing as a housekeeper. Campus security cameras caught him entering an academic building carrying a mop and large plastic bag, which he used to empty garbage containers in the offices. My situation is different from yours, but if I could carry at work (rather than leaving my weapon in the glove compartment of my car) this experience wouldn't prompt me to start.

BobK · May 28, 2006, 12:02 PM

Which government? State or Federal? As far as I know it is not legal to carry concealed in any Federal building regardless of which state you are in. But I could be wrong.

KyJim · May 28, 2006, 11:14 PM

State govt.

BillCA · May 29, 2006, 02:54 AM

+1 for what Pax said about unnecessary handling.

The bigger concern is making sure it stays concealed. Do other coworkers know you carry? Do any of them carry? Does your office dress-code permit you to wear shirt tails out (i.e. like a Hawaiian shirt?) or is it "professional appearance" oriented? It can be tough on your wardrobe budget if you find yourself constantly having to wear a suit jacket in the office (especially on a humid summer's day).

Our company uses badges to access the various floors of our building, but that doesn't stop the BG's. We had security video of a woman smiling & waving to people while it looked like she was waiting for the elevator. When to folks came out into the elevator lobby she casually caught the closing door and entered the floor -- and stole wallets from two purses, took a purse and a laptop computer! Had this been a homicidal ex-spouse of someone it could have gotten ugly.

Mikeyboy · May 31, 2006, 07:53 AM

Like the others have said, if it is OK to carry at work, keep it on you all the time. It is safer and you want to avoid someone stealing your gun when your not at your desk. If it is a comfort or keeping the gun concealed issue, you may need to look for a smaller gun. Carrying in an ankle holster or carrying a pocket pistol can be done regardless of your dress code.

bermo61 · May 31, 2006, 08:03 AM

Jim-

Even without the events you described i would suggest carry all the time. The one time you don't have your gun will guaranteed be the time you need it. There is a reason LEO have to carry when they are not on duty. Find the most unobtrusive carry possible and never be without it.

Duxman · May 31, 2006, 09:24 AM

I agree with most of the opinions on the board. Carry the most concealable weapon you got.

As long as you violate no law and take extra care not to be seen or "printed".

KyJim · May 31, 2006, 08:39 PM

Thanks for all the input. I've pretty much decided to carry in the office.

BobK · June 1, 2006, 11:45 PM

Good for you. Be discreet. Be safe.

Para Bellum · June 3, 2006, 05:08 AM

a very good friend of mine is a business lawyer in one of the safest cities in the world. His lawfirm is in the safest and most exclusive part of town. Recently a freak stormed his firm with a folding knife and stabbed him in the head repeatedly until the folding knife's joint luckily broke.

My friend will never recover fully. He has no brain damage, but needed severe face, skull and eye-surgery. Not to mention his psychological injuries. Now he understands why carrying 24/7 for real is not paranoid. He thought so before...

wayneinFL · June 12, 2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

When I get to my office, I normally secure my concealed weapon in a desk drawer.

I'd carry it just for the fact that if something bad could happen in your office, it could just as easily happen while you're in the restroom.

Another reason:

The disc tumbler locks in office furniture are not terribly secure. I'd think it would be more responsible to carry it than leave it in a desk drawer. It could end up stolen, especially with a thief in the building. Or some idiot might go snooping through your desk drawer, fiddle with it and hurt themselves.

Rick R · June 20, 2006, 09:31 PM

Picture yourself standing in front of an old man in white robes and a long white beard. You are both standing in front of gates made of pearl.

You're trying to explain that you are there in spite of owning six handguns, three rifles and two shotguns plus having attended several hours of firearms and self defense training, spending many hours on the range and eaten lots of oat bran in your lifetime. You and a bunch of the people standing in line behind you are there because you left your gun-dujour in your desk drawer on the day some whacko decided to imitate Terminator IV in your office.

It's kind of like a manufacturer putting a safety device on a type of gun, they can't decide later to take it off. Once you start down the road deciding that you will be responsible for your own safety, what gives you the right to become reliant again?

DustinS · July 4, 2006, 10:24 AM

I wish my employer would let us carry. I work in a outdoor hotel that I have been told by multiple friends of mine who happen to be area police officers is a regular stop of small time drug runners. The first few months I worked there I never ran into a situation that I felt I needed a weapon. However since then I have had many situations I would have felt much more comfortable with it. With my job I have to double as security so I have to go to any rooms that get complaints. I have gone into rooms with people OD'ing and have found guns in rooms after checkouts. You should feel lucky that you work in a place that you can carry. Even with my permit I am not.

skeeter1 · July 4, 2006, 10:56 AM

Stealing a credit card from a woman's purse would NEVER justify pulling out a handgun. They can always be cancelled and replaced, and in the worst event, most major credit cards (MC, Visa, etc.) you're only liable for the first $50.

For that, I would never risk pulling out a firearm.

orionengnr · July 4, 2006, 11:40 AM

I would tend to agree with the majority of respondents. If you may legally do so, I would carry all day. I wish I had that option.

BTW, many available carry options exist. For summer (no cover garment) carry, I am currently fond of the SmartCarry Invisible holster. It will accommodate a variety of small/medium pistols and revolvers. A Kahr P45 sits with me as I type.

Explore your options, and act accordingly.

Ace On The Line · July 5, 2006, 11:50 AM

I work in a small office ( two employees ) with very little traffic. Outside of a delivery anyone that walks in is usually by mistake. Wearing a concealed weapon is not a problem for me. In today's world I do not consider any place as being safe nor would I feel safe relying on someone else for protection. I understand some of you have no choice in the matter and I'm very lucky that I do. There have been occasions when having the comfort of a .45 ACP on me has come in very handy in dealing with potentially dangerous situations. Situations that otherwise I would have been a lot more fearful of dealing with and no doubt it would have shown.

beardking · July 5, 2006, 12:51 PM

"Stealing a credit card from a woman's purse would NEVER justify pulling out a handgun. They can always be cancelled and replaced, and in the worst event, most major credit cards (MC, Visa, etc.) you're only liable for the first $50.

For that, I would never risk pulling out a firearm."

The stealing of the credit card isn't the issue here (to me at least). The issue is that a nefarious type boldly made it past multiple LEO types and was able to rob someone. If this same person had been there with the intent of harming someone rather than just getting a free credit card for a day or two, having a gun handy would have been quite useful.

Currently anytime I'm outside of my house, I'm armed. I don't work in a high risk area, I don't live in a high risk area, however, I'm still going to take the responsibility to protect myself rather than hope someone else will be able to. About the only time that I'm not armed when I leave the house is when I know I'm going to have to fly somewhere that day (like today, d*mn I feel naked, but my pants are staying up better).

Also, my take on the idea of putting your firearm in your desk drawer is that it's just inviting it to be stolen. If it's on you, it's very unlikely that someone is going to take it. To me once you decide to carry, it's your responsibility to have exact knowledge of what is going on with your firearm at all times. You can't do that if it's locked away in your desk.

May 27, 2006, 09:42 AM	#1
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	Re-thinking carry at work I work in a secure(?) govt office with a number of LEO in the building (I am not LEO). There is a public entrance and employee only entrance. Both doors are locked with security cameras in place. When I get to my office, I normally secure my concealed weapon in a desk drawer. I never thought it necessary to carry to the restroom, etc. I've been re-thinking this given a recent event. It seems a thief hid on the landing of some stairs, waited for an employee to leave and then hustled through the door before it could shut. He hid his face from the cameras. He stole a woman's credit card from her purse. To do this he had to walk by a room full of LEO. If it had been some nut intent on doing harm, I may not have had enough time to retrieve a weapon if I was out of my office. What do you all think?

May 27, 2006, 09:56 AM	#2
308Enfield Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 239	Jim, if you're allowed to carry at work I don't see any reason not to carry the whole time you're at work. In TN, it isn't legal to carry in state or federal offices, or on school property, even with a permit. Since I work at a university, that means I'm not allowed to carry at work at all __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato

May 27, 2006, 10:09 AM	#3
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	It seems to me that the less often a gun is unnecessarily handled during the day, the less likely an unintentional discharge would be. To my way of thinking, leaving a loaded gun riding in a holster on the hip is far safer and more secure than unholstering, unloading, checking, securing, reloading, and reholstering. All that extra handling really bothers me -- especially since it's difficult to find a safe direction in most offices or public places. So for me, I would do everything in my power to avoid having to handle my firearm unnecessarily during the day. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

May 27, 2006, 10:53 AM	#4
JoshB Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2006 Posts: 333	Jim, I definately would carry at work if I could. I'm one of those people who think of CC as the default method. I can't think of any reason why I would disarm myself when it was perfectly legal for me to be armed in that situation. why wait for something to go wrong for you to decide that you need to carry? Unfortunately for me, I work on a military instalation, and CC is not allowed. __________________ -Josh Deut. 12.32

May 28, 2006, 01:30 AM	#7
Hayley Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2004 Posts: 295	* Jim: raiding offices as you describe is a criminal specialty. I work at a Ky University which has been visited by several of these creeps over the years. Recently, I had a small TV stolen from mine, and a colleague an ipod, by a guy posing as a housekeeper. Campus security cameras caught him entering an academic building carrying a mop and large plastic bag, which he used to empty garbage containers in the offices. My situation is different from yours, but if I could carry at work (rather than leaving my weapon in the glove compartment of my car) this experience wouldn't prompt me to start.

May 27, 2006, 01:54 PM	#5
Syntax360 Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Location: Grand Prairie, TX Posts: 694	The odds are pretty slim that I'll ever be in a position to need my gun at work, but I have one on me at all times regardless. Seems one of the cardinal rules of conceal and carry is "you never know". I'm sure the vast majority of people who use their firearms in self-defense situations left their homes that morning knowing they weren't going to need it. We don't get warning, and situations seem to occur and end in an instant. Sounds to me like carrying all day wouldn't be a bad idea any way you cut it.

May 28, 2006, 12:02 PM	#8
BobK Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2005 Posts: 838	Which government? State or Federal? As far as I know it is not legal to carry concealed in any Federal building regardless of which state you are in. But I could be wrong.

May 28, 2006, 11:14 PM	#9
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	State govt.

May 29, 2006, 02:54 AM	#10
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	+1 for what Pax said about unnecessary handling. The bigger concern is making sure it stays concealed. Do other coworkers know you carry? Do any of them carry? Does your office dress-code permit you to wear shirt tails out (i.e. like a Hawaiian shirt?) or is it "professional appearance" oriented? It can be tough on your wardrobe budget if you find yourself constantly having to wear a suit jacket in the office (especially on a humid summer's day). Our company uses badges to access the various floors of our building, but that doesn't stop the BG's. We had security video of a woman smiling & waving to people while it looked like she was waiting for the elevator. When to folks came out into the elevator lobby she casually caught the closing door and entered the floor -- and stole wallets from two purses, took a purse and a laptop computer! Had this been a homicidal ex-spouse of someone it could have gotten ugly. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

May 31, 2006, 07:53 AM	#11
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	Like the others have said, if it is OK to carry at work, keep it on you all the time. It is safer and you want to avoid someone stealing your gun when your not at your desk. If it is a comfort or keeping the gun concealed issue, you may need to look for a smaller gun. Carrying in an ankle holster or carrying a pocket pistol can be done regardless of your dress code.

May 31, 2006, 08:03 AM	#12
bermo61 Member Join Date: January 24, 2006 Posts: 79	Jim- Even without the events you described i would suggest carry all the time. The one time you don't have your gun will guaranteed be the time you need it. There is a reason LEO have to carry when they are not on duty. Find the most unobtrusive carry possible and never be without it.

May 31, 2006, 09:24 AM	#13
Duxman Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2005 Location: VA Posts: 1,294	I agree with most of the opinions on the board. Carry the most concealable weapon you got. As long as you violate no law and take extra care not to be seen or "printed".

May 31, 2006, 08:39 PM	#14
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	Thanks for all the input. I've pretty much decided to carry in the office.

June 1, 2006, 11:45 PM	#15
BobK Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2005 Posts: 838	Good for you. Be discreet. Be safe.

June 3, 2006, 05:08 AM	#16
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	There is no safe place a very good friend of mine is a business lawyer in one of the safest cities in the world. His lawfirm is in the safest and most exclusive part of town. Recently a freak stormed his firm with a folding knife and stabbed him in the head repeatedly until the folding knife's joint luckily broke. My friend will never recover fully. He has no brain damage, but needed severe face, skull and eye-surgery. Not to mention his psychological injuries. Now he understands why carrying 24/7 for real is not paranoid. He thought so before... __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

June 20, 2006, 09:31 PM	#18
Rick R Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2002 Location: On top of a mountain in WV Posts: 102	Picture yourself standing in front of an old man in white robes and a long white beard. You are both standing in front of gates made of pearl. You're trying to explain that you are there in spite of owning six handguns, three rifles and two shotguns plus having attended several hours of firearms and self defense training, spending many hours on the range and eaten lots of oat bran in your lifetime. You and a bunch of the people standing in line behind you are there because you left your gun-dujour in your desk drawer on the day some whacko decided to imitate Terminator IV in your office. It's kind of like a manufacturer putting a safety device on a type of gun, they can't decide later to take it off. Once you start down the road deciding that you will be responsible for your own safety, what gives you the right to become reliant again?

July 4, 2006, 10:24 AM	#19
DustinS Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: North Ridgeville Posts: 20	I wish my employer would let us carry. I work in a outdoor hotel that I have been told by multiple friends of mine who happen to be area police officers is a regular stop of small time drug runners. The first few months I worked there I never ran into a situation that I felt I needed a weapon. However since then I have had many situations I would have felt much more comfortable with it. With my job I have to double as security so I have to go to any rooms that get complaints. I have gone into rooms with people OD'ing and have found guns in rooms after checkouts. You should feel lucky that you work in a place that you can carry. Even with my permit I am not.

July 4, 2006, 10:56 AM	#20
skeeter1 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2006 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 3,403	I'd have to say no... Stealing a credit card from a woman's purse would NEVER justify pulling out a handgun. They can always be cancelled and replaced, and in the worst event, most major credit cards (MC, Visa, etc.) you're only liable for the first $50. For that, I would never risk pulling out a firearm.

July 4, 2006, 11:40 AM	#21
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,173	excellent post. I would tend to agree with the majority of respondents. If you may legally do so, I would carry all day. I wish I had that option. BTW, many available carry options exist. For summer (no cover garment) carry, I am currently fond of the SmartCarry Invisible holster. It will accommodate a variety of small/medium pistols and revolvers. A Kahr P45 sits with me as I type. Explore your options, and act accordingly.

July 5, 2006, 11:50 AM	#22
Ace On The Line Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 111	I work in a small office ( two employees ) with very little traffic. Outside of a delivery anyone that walks in is usually by mistake. Wearing a concealed weapon is not a problem for me. In today's world I do not consider any place as being safe nor would I feel safe relying on someone else for protection. I understand some of you have no choice in the matter and I'm very lucky that I do. There have been occasions when having the comfort of a .45 ACP on me has come in very handy in dealing with potentially dangerous situations. Situations that otherwise I would have been a lot more fearful of dealing with and no doubt it would have shown.

July 5, 2006, 12:51 PM	#23
beardking Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2004 Location: Dallas, TX (area) Posts: 128	"Stealing a credit card from a woman's purse would NEVER justify pulling out a handgun. They can always be cancelled and replaced, and in the worst event, most major credit cards (MC, Visa, etc.) you're only liable for the first $50. For that, I would never risk pulling out a firearm." The stealing of the credit card isn't the issue here (to me at least). The issue is that a nefarious type boldly made it past multiple LEO types and was able to rob someone. If this same person had been there with the intent of harming someone rather than just getting a free credit card for a day or two, having a gun handy would have been quite useful. Currently anytime I'm outside of my house, I'm armed. I don't work in a high risk area, I don't live in a high risk area, however, I'm still going to take the responsibility to protect myself rather than hope someone else will be able to. About the only time that I'm not armed when I leave the house is when I know I'm going to have to fly somewhere that day (like today, d*mn I feel naked, but my pants are staying up better). Also, my take on the idea of putting your firearm in your desk drawer is that it's just inviting it to be stolen. If it's on you, it's very unlikely that someone is going to take it. To me once you decide to carry, it's your responsibility to have exact knowledge of what is going on with your firearm at all times. You can't do that if it's locked away in your desk.