Are bolt action rifles REALLY more accurate than semi-auto ones?

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Some auto rifles over the years have been notoriously inaccurate. The old Remingtons were known for shooting beach ball sized groups. The AR15, on the other hand, is an exceptionally accurate platform. Most cheap AR15s, in my experience, will shoot sub-moa. Some will shoot much better than that. Of course it helps if you do a trigger job. It's tougher with a unmodified mil-spec trigger group. I suppose, in theory at least, bolts are more accurate. But on average my ARs have out shot my bolt guns over the years. Of course YMMV.

[GeauxTide]

I was bolt all the way until I put my first loads through my AA 6.5 Grendel. 2 rounds could hold a loaded cartridge in the target and the third opened it up to .300. Only customization was cutting the barrel to 20" and a 4# trigger.

[Zen Archery]

Yes...

[GuyWithaGun]

Originally Posted by std7mag

Yes, and no..



Art of the rifle has guys hitting steel at 1 mile with both types of guns.



For most mortals, bolt is USUALLY more accurate.



Of course i would like to see more of the semi guys at the range shoot further than 25 yards too.

There is a guy who frequents my range who uses an m1 with a scope out at 200+ so it does happen albeit rarely

[Rifletom]

Hmm, perhaps the intended application, yardage and most importantly, the shooter.

[Bluecthomas]

For a more casual shooter like myself, one big advantage of bolt or even lever action is they fire almost anything.

For a casual shooter, biggest difference is how long it takes to dump X amounts of ammo down range.

Due to ammo costs, I've got a bolt, a lever and a semi auto 22. Bolt is single shot (inherited that one), 100 rounds in about 45 minutes. Lever holds 19 22lrs, 100 rounds in 10 minutes. Semi with two already loaded 50 round drums, 100 in a minute max.

Semi is very ammo picky though. Won't fire the cheap stuff reliably.

[CalmerThanYou]

Soooo it's the magazines fault.

[Danoobie]

DP, sorry.

[Danoobie]

IMO, there's a couple of factors at play here.

One is the ID-10-T user end of things. The human part is
mostly shooting a purpose built rifle, and concentrating
on each round's individual accuracy. By my observation,
most folks seem to shoot a bolt-action more carefully.
With the semi-auto, follow-up shots cycle more quickly,
in effect de-emphasizing accuracy.

Two, the cost of the average bolt-action, vs the cost of the average
semi-auto. Prices being approximately the same, in the semi, the
money is going into gas, cycling, and recoil systems, while accuracy parts,
like the barrel, are, in many cases, an afterthought. It's easier to
build an accurate platform at a much lower cost, with the bolt-action.
I must respectfully admit that with my AR with the bull barrel,when I
shoot at the slower bolt-action rate, it is more accurate than my
bolt actions. The topic statement could be viewed as a generalization.
If you are willing to invest properly in the accuracy of your semi,
for the additional cost you will be rewarded with very satisfactory,
if not amazing accuracy, given the assumption that you can hold
up your end of the shooting equation.

Three-the lower sight plane of a bolt-action lends itself to a
larger field of range, giving better overall accuracy from any
point of zero. From what I've seen, at least.

All that said, there is no substitute for constant shooting practice
with your particular firearm.

[Don Fischer]

The only semi-auto rifle's I've ever shot other than 22's, are the M-16 and M1 carbine. That was while I was in the service. But I think generally speaking, bolt's are easier to get to shoot if they have a good barrel. Reason being they are so easy to get bedded right. On all my rifle's the only thing bedded in is the action, barrel's float free. On semi-auto's, those I'm aware of, the fore arms are hung off the fore end of the rifle, wouldn't know where to start to bed one of them. Early on that was also a problem with the high end single shots also. But someone figured out haw to do it and I understand they can be made to shoot very well. In the semi-auto's there is always the exception to the rule. Of course this is so only if your looking for something more accurate than what hunting requires. If it's simply a hunting rifle your talking about, semi-auto generally shoot better than need be.

[MosinNOUGAT]

It probably is more of the shooter than the gun.

[Rangerrich99]

Are bolt action rifles REALLY more accurate than semi-auto ones?

In general, yes.

Some people like to say that their AR/semi-auto rifle will out-shoot most bolt rifles they own or have shot, but the unasked question is, how much was spent on that semi-auto rifle and the ammunition?

Case in point: I have a Ruger SR556E ($1100) with a $300 scope, Magpul buttstock ($80) and a $235 two-stage trigger. So total cost about $1,400. Using factory PMC 55 gr. ammo it will shoot about 1.5 MOA. Using my reloads it will shoot 1/4 MOA. Notice I said, IT will shoot 1/4 MOA; I usually shoot about 1/2-1 MOA with it.

My bone-stock Savage M110 ($370 w/ crappy scope) .30-'06 using Remington Core-Lokt 165 grain bullets will shoot 1/2 MOA. With my reloads I can shoot 1/4 MOA pretty consistently. I added a scope for about $250.

So to get the same accuracy between these two rifles I had to spend an extra $750 or so on the AR. My other ARs won't shoot 1/4 MOA, but they were only about $550-650.

If one spends the same money, in most cases the bolt rifles will be more accurate, and as range increases, the longer barrels of bolts make accurate fire easier to accomplish.

Most of the issue has to do with the basic design philosophy behind the platforms in question, IMO. Battle rifles/semi-auto sporting rifles/whatever were never designed to be 1 MOA or less rifles. All of my ARs were designed to be no better than 2 MOA rifles. I can spend money and make them better, but as designed, they are 2 MOA. OTOH, all bolt rifles built today have to shoot at least 1 MOA or no one will buy them.

[243winxb]

The rate of fire with an auto makes up for the lack of accuracy. The 2nd ,3th or 4th bullet will make contact with the intended target.

[TXAZ]

243 mused:

The rate of fire with an auto makes up for the lack of accuracy. The 2nd ,3th or 4th bullet will make contact with the intended target.

And it's a WHOLE LOT MORE FUN!

[HiBC]

The AR type semi autos,when free floated,have only the gas tube as an outside influence on accuracy.
In this way,they are very similar to bolt rifles with free float barrels.
And they tend to shoot very well.

Now,if you take an otherwise accurate bolt rifle and hang a bayonet on it,it may not shoot so well.

Which somewhat illustrates a point. Many semi-autos use the barrel for more than an undisturbed tube to launch bullets.

It becomes a semi-auto using the barrel as structure to hang gas systems ,forends,etc on. Or the barrel moves in bushings to recoil operate the rifle.
In some cases,the components anchored to the barrel have a fixed length. When these components do not heat up the same as the barrel,the effect is like a bi-metal strip. They walk as they warm up.

A semi-auto deer rifle like a Remington or a battle rifle like a Garand generally does not deliver the same degree of accuracy as an equivalent barrel quality bolt gun.
However,the Garand and the Remington rifles will shoot better than most individuals can shoot them,and the deliver plenty of accuracy to do the job they were intended for.

I'm all in favor of guns being a place where you get to exercise and enjoy your own preferences.

I live in Colorado. Hunting tends to involve uphill,downhill,thinner air,longer range.And maybe longer walks,and meat packs than some of the other places that have different conditions.
With respect for your preferences,a 7 lb rifle beats a 9 lb rifle in my world for hunting.
I want steady crosshairs on the boiler roombefore I squeeze. I expect a one shot kill or I don't shoot.If I could only load three in a bolt gun,I would consider myself to have an abundance of firepower.

For hunting,I'd choose a 6 1/2 lb single shot over an 8 to 10 lb semi auto,all else equal.
I'd choose a 1 MOA single shot over a 2 1/2 MOA semi auto ,all else equal.

In the middle is a 7 or 8 lb bolt rifle that shoots 1 MOA

Those work for me.

Now,somewhere else? Hogs in the bushes? I might think different.

[lefteye]

Are bolt action rifles REALLY more accurate than semi-auto ones?

The short and correct answer is yes. BUT not all bolt action rifles are more accurate than semi-auto rifles. A custom bench rest single shot bolt action rifle is probably more accurate than any other rifle. A sniper semi-automatic rifle may be more accurate than some bolt action rifles. Real sniper rifles are probably in excellent condition. Many bolt action rifles still in use may be far below excellent condition.

[tobnpr]

The simple and correct answer here is "yes" (and why I'm primarily a bolt gun smith- only accurate rifles are interesting, right?).

Which is why (I'm guessing) they've now added a semi class to the Precision Rifle Series. Not that they were ever excluded- but even in a timed competition where speed is as critical as accuracy- I never saw any place in the top tiers.

We're not discussing whether a 4K semi can be more accurate than a $500 factory bolt gun.

Accuracy is all about consistency, perfect concentricity and perpendicularity of all the relative/relevant components from the bolt raceway to the throat.

The tight tolerances that can be achieved- and are desired with a bolt gun- can't happen in an autoloader. It won't run... Bolts are routinely done two thou or less under the ID of a precision reamed bolt raceway (that's about 1/4 the thickness of a human hair clearance around it).

Now, the high-end custom semi's can get close- with precision machining of the components that push the envelope to maximize accuracy, while ensuring the rifle will go "bang" when the trigger is pulled. Reliability in competition is every bit as important as with a CCW (except your life isn't depending on it, natch).

Get any grit/sand or foreign matter in a semi where the tolerances are "too" tight- and it's goodnight. While "fun" to run, I have about zero interest in target shooting with an AK-47. Even the high-end ones, while more accurate than the military versions, are still inaccurate bcg slammin' Kalashnikovs. OTOH, I'd take that AK over a precision bolt gun for a "survival" gun in a heartbeat because I know I can bury it in a sandpit, pull it out, shake it off/beat the sand outta the bore and pull the trigger knowing it will do what is was designed to do...

But when it comes to pure accuracy (at any cost), the bolt gun wins

[stagpanther]

Depends on how much foreplay.

[tahunua001]

not so much anymore. my most accurate rifle to date, which is to say the only one I've ever had that allows ME to shoot cloverleafs at 100 yards has been a semi auto AR variant. before that, it was a 1903A4 sniper rifle so it really depends how well made it was and how well you know how to use it.

[Reloadron]

MosinNOUGAT:

Are bolt action rifles REALLY more accurate than semi-auto ones?
I've heard this from many different places. I think it makes no sense, but I was just wondering.

With a focus on the question and only the question and in my opinion only yes, a bolt action rifle will offer up better accuracy than a semi-automatic rifle. That said it is all generalities because we can't very well say all bolt action rifles exceed the accuracy of semi-automatic rifles. Really a broad statement and just to general. I haven't a clue how so many post drifted directly to AR simply because semi-automatic rifles were mentioned.

Ron

[stagpanther]

Depends on how you define accurate.

[Slamfire]

If accuracy was the only important characteristic, then semi auto's would never had been developed. Now if you add time, such as shooting rapid fire in NRA across the course, not having to roll around manipulating a bolt, actually leads to smaller, tighter groups. In across the course shooting you have to fire 10 rounds in 60, or 70 seconds, with a reload. Typically gas gunners shoot two rounds, reload with a magazine of eight.

American long range shooting is based on one shot per minute, so the shooter is given 20 minutes to fire 20 shots. Now, change that to 20 shots for record in 90 seconds, or less, and the type of rifle used will change from single shot bolt actions to something that can be fired a lot faster.

I have seen some Norwegian shooting contest videos. What I saw appeared to be shooting against time. The shooters were shooting prone and firing as fast as they could, both bolt guns and gas guns. I assume that they had a fixed period of time to place as many rounds on target as they could, within a fixed time period. Seems to me, an accurate semi auto would be very competitive in that game.

In fact I consider that more realistic for military training. Once the target realizes that they are being shot at, well, don't they run and hide? Therefore assuming someone will stand still for a minute per shot is unrealistic. Getting rounds down range fast seems to me to be more realistic in a war.

[Stats Shooter]

Slamfires explanation is the best and it sums up why there are conflicting statements on this topic.

It depends on what you are doing and how accuracy is measured. Long range benchrest shooters shoot 10 shots for record in 10 min. Which is an eternity, but the competition isn't designed to make time a factor for the competitors. But, groups are measured in the 1/100ths of an inch. A 1/4 moa group wouldn't even be competitive in BR shooting. A good BR gun will hold 1/8 moa or better consistently, always, every single time, no fliers. A smei automatic, match grade won't do that.

Also, most of these guys who say "well my AR shoots cloverleaf groups at 100yards" either arnt shooting over a chronograph, or haven't shot long range. Because you can shoot clover leaf groups with a 40 fps spread in velocity and it won't be until 300 yards or more that it makes a difference.

I have a 20" Varmint upper, 1/8 twist. It holds 1/2 moa at 100 yards and 1.5 moa at 600 yards.

My F-CLASS rifle holds 1/8 moa with an extreme spread of 5fps....The best extreme spread I got from my AR was 12 fps and that was with the glass turned off.

But like slamfire said, if I were shooting for accuracy AND against the clock, I would use my AR-10 or Varmint 556 because even if I had the option, I wouldn't want to try and work the bolt and try and get back into position.

But, in absolute accuracy, look at what the bench rest leaders are shooting, because they are shooting the most accurate rifles.