Think I'm gonna buy this AK: Question-

SCDeac82 · September 18, 2012, 05:27 PM

http://www.classicfirearms.com/

It appears to be a good deal.

Question #1: Is "Saiga" the Same as "Arsenal?"

Question #2: What do ya'll think of the forend?

Thanks.

JB

Mrgunsngear · September 18, 2012, 06:43 PM

1. No. Some Arsenals come from the Izhmash factory where the Saigas are made (SGL series) and they do share the same barrel/receiver.

2. I'm not a fan but if you just want a well built reliable rifle it's a great gun.

Your link isn't for a specific rifle by the way...

Dfariswheel · September 18, 2012, 06:51 PM

The Saiga's as imported and sold by most places is not the same as the current Arsenal Inc.

What Arsenal Inc gets is basically a special Saiga barreled action that's custom made just for them by Izhmash, who also make the standard Saiga.

The Arsenal rifles don't have the holes in the rear of the receiver for the Saiga standard rifles for the trigger group.
The Arsenal also has the full military front sight and muzzle brake assembly and the military hand guards.
These have the 1000 meter rear sight.
The Arsenal accepts all AK-74 magazines.

The standard Saiga as in the ad you posted have the two rear holes plugged with rivets and commercial hand guards, and no threaded barrel for a flash hider.
They have a 300 meter rear sight.
I'm not sure about that particular conversion, but the standard Saiga requires or at least used to require a special magazine and you can't use military mags without installing a riveted bullet guide.

Bottom line: The rifle in the ad is a minimum/partial conversion of the commercial Saiga.
The Arsenal-Saiga is a full conversion to military form using a special barreled action that has more of a military setup.
They will shoot about the same.

481 · September 18, 2012, 07:06 PM

Hmm, so the two offerings have significant differences? I have been looking at the Arsenal's, too, but it's not worth saving a few bucks if what I am considering is not the same as the Arsenal SGL series.

SCDeac82 · September 18, 2012, 07:37 PM

Sorry the link didn't take you directly to the item...This was the Rifle description on that website:

On that site, see:

Russian Saiga 7.62x39 AK-47 Variation Rifle w/ Special Promo Shooters Package

It is a Package including Rifle, Bag, 3 Mags, Cleaning Kit, Sling, and a couple of other misc. items for $599

JB

chris in va · September 19, 2012, 12:03 AM

Eh. I had a Saiga conversion, consider a VZ58 instead. Lighter and less recoil.

Dfariswheel · September 19, 2012, 07:49 PM

Both the Saiga you linked to and the Arsenal are both "basically" the same rifle, built in the same plant, to the same standards.

The Arsenal is specially built for Arsenal to make it easier for Arsenal to do a conversion to full military AK configuration. It comes in as a barreled receiver made to be easier to convert.

The Saiga you linked to was imported as a complete full commercial type rifle and partially converted to a semi-AK configuration.
The linked rifle was basically converted from the trigger group on back, with the entire front of the rifle left in original commercial sporting configuration.

Both will shoot the same.
I'd ask the company if the rifle will accept standard AK magazines or if it needs the special Saiga commercial magazines. If it needs the special mags, you can't use military mags unless you do further conversion work.

Bottom line, if you just want a shooter and don't really care that it's not in full military configuration with the hand guards and muzzle brake, longer range rear sight, and the plugged holes in the rear of the receiver, the semi-converted Saiga is a good rifle at a good price.

If you want the closest thing you can get in appearance and function to a Russian full-auto AK, the Arsenal is the best.

DE Shooter · September 19, 2012, 08:09 PM

JB,
I have fired an Arsenal Saiga. And, have owned/fired Saigas in several calibers. If you have the money and want "closest" to a real AK, the Arsenal is probably best pick. If you just want to shoot the caliber in an AK wanna be, the Saiga is just fine. They are very reliable and there are plenty of aftermarket goodies available. They will both give you plenty of fun. Once I began shooting 5.45x39, factory Saiga and CAI M74, my 7.62x39s stay home most of the time. All I do is punch paper and blow up water jugs, usually. The 5.45x39 is surprisingly more accurate out to 200yds... even with spam can ammo. I have a fixed 6x Vortex scope on a Belarus QR mount. The recoil from the 5.45x39 is light enough that you can rapid fire decent groups at 200yds...damn little holes need a spotting scope though! Good luck with wheichever you get, they are both fun.

September 18, 2012, 07:06 PM	#4
481 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Posts: 540	Hmm, so the two offerings have significant differences? I have been looking at the Arsenal's, too, but it's not worth saving a few bucks if what I am considering is not the same as the Arsenal SGL series. __________________ QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION

September 18, 2012, 07:37 PM	#5
SCDeac82 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2010 Location: Southeast-USA Posts: 222	Clarification Sorry the link didn't take you directly to the item...This was the Rifle description on that website: On that site, see: Russian Saiga 7.62x39 AK-47 Variation Rifle w/ Special Promo Shooters Package It is a Package including Rifle, Bag, 3 Mags, Cleaning Kit, Sling, and a couple of other misc. items for $599 JB __________________ "No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

September 18, 2012, 05:27 PM	#1
SCDeac82 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2010 Location: Southeast-USA Posts: 222	Think I'm gonna buy this AK: Question- http://www.classicfirearms.com/ It appears to be a good deal. Question #1: Is "Saiga" the Same as "Arsenal?" Question #2: What do ya'll think of the forend? Thanks. JB __________________ "No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

September 18, 2012, 06:43 PM	#2
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	1. No. Some Arsenals come from the Izhmash factory where the Saigas are made (SGL series) and they do share the same barrel/receiver. 2. I'm not a fan but if you just want a well built reliable rifle it's a great gun. Your link isn't for a specific rifle by the way... __________________ Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel

September 18, 2012, 06:51 PM	#3
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	The Saiga's as imported and sold by most places is not the same as the current Arsenal Inc. What Arsenal Inc gets is basically a special Saiga barreled action that's custom made just for them by Izhmash, who also make the standard Saiga. The Arsenal rifles don't have the holes in the rear of the receiver for the Saiga standard rifles for the trigger group. The Arsenal also has the full military front sight and muzzle brake assembly and the military hand guards. These have the 1000 meter rear sight. The Arsenal accepts all AK-74 magazines. The standard Saiga as in the ad you posted have the two rear holes plugged with rivets and commercial hand guards, and no threaded barrel for a flash hider. They have a 300 meter rear sight. I'm not sure about that particular conversion, but the standard Saiga requires or at least used to require a special magazine and you can't use military mags without installing a riveted bullet guide. Bottom line: The rifle in the ad is a minimum/partial conversion of the commercial Saiga. The Arsenal-Saiga is a full conversion to military form using a special barreled action that has more of a military setup. They will shoot about the same.

September 19, 2012, 12:03 AM	#6
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Eh. I had a Saiga conversion, consider a VZ58 instead. Lighter and less recoil.

September 19, 2012, 07:49 PM	#7
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Both the Saiga you linked to and the Arsenal are both "basically" the same rifle, built in the same plant, to the same standards. The Arsenal is specially built for Arsenal to make it easier for Arsenal to do a conversion to full military AK configuration. It comes in as a barreled receiver made to be easier to convert. The Saiga you linked to was imported as a complete full commercial type rifle and partially converted to a semi-AK configuration. The linked rifle was basically converted from the trigger group on back, with the entire front of the rifle left in original commercial sporting configuration. Both will shoot the same. I'd ask the company if the rifle will accept standard AK magazines or if it needs the special Saiga commercial magazines. If it needs the special mags, you can't use military mags unless you do further conversion work. Bottom line, if you just want a shooter and don't really care that it's not in full military configuration with the hand guards and muzzle brake, longer range rear sight, and the plugged holes in the rear of the receiver, the semi-converted Saiga is a good rifle at a good price. If you want the closest thing you can get in appearance and function to a Russian full-auto AK, the Arsenal is the best.

September 19, 2012, 08:09 PM	#8
DE Shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Posts: 215	JB, I have fired an Arsenal Saiga. And, have owned/fired Saigas in several calibers. If you have the money and want "closest" to a real AK, the Arsenal is probably best pick. If you just want to shoot the caliber in an AK wanna be, the Saiga is just fine. They are very reliable and there are plenty of aftermarket goodies available. They will both give you plenty of fun. Once I began shooting 5.45x39, factory Saiga and CAI M74, my 7.62x39s stay home most of the time. All I do is punch paper and blow up water jugs, usually. The 5.45x39 is surprisingly more accurate out to 200yds... even with spam can ammo. I have a fixed 6x Vortex scope on a Belarus QR mount. The recoil from the 5.45x39 is light enough that you can rapid fire decent groups at 200yds...damn little holes need a spotting scope though! Good luck with wheichever you get, they are both fun.