The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 5, 2017, 09:02 AM   #1
Docthebiker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2017
Posts: 6
Non sulfur powder

First post, so Hi to everyone.
I shoot 2 .44 Remies, an Uberti 8" and a Pietta Sheriff in stainless, plus a Pietta .36 snub nose.
I'm thinking off cooking a batch of BP without sulfur. From what I've heard it's the Kn03 and carbon that do most of the work. The sulfur is in the mix to bring down the ignition temperature.
I'm wondering if the 1075 Plus (hotter) caps would be reliable on a sulfurless mix of about 30gn.
Or maybe a small pre-load of about 5gn of regular Vectan in the back of the cylinder would work as a "starter" charge on a 23gn sulfurless load.
Has anyone any experience, or thoughts on shooting using a Kn03/C only powder?

The sulfur stink would be reduced (gone), but are there any advantages? Less smoke? Less/softer fouling? Economy?

Docthebiker is offline  
Old April 5, 2017, 09:50 AM   #2
rodwhaincamo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,246
Like Triple 7 powder?

It doesn't require a starter charge. It does have a higher ignition temp and would require one in a flintlock, but percussion caps has always set it off for me.

It does have a little less smoke and much lighter fouling.
rodwhaincamo is offline  
Old April 5, 2017, 10:05 AM   #3
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,486
I don't know. No reason not to try a batch.

I would leave the smokeless duplex to the Schuetzen guys.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old April 5, 2017, 10:59 AM   #4
Centurion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2016
Posts: 270
I did it...it works. And I used #10 Rem caps.

Below a very useful site from a Swiss black powder "Master" IMHO:

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/bp_menu.html
Centurion is offline  
Old April 5, 2017, 05:59 PM   #5
noelf2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Stuart, VA
Posts: 2,473
What I've learned:

Primers will set it off reliably (shotgun shells and cartridges), but not so much with percussion caps. Use the hottest caps you can get.

Corn/compress regular or sulfurless powder. If you don't corn it, you will not have a very powerful load in the confines of a cylinder chamber.

Measure it by weight vs. volume for consistency.
__________________
Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

Last edited by noelf2; April 5, 2017 at 06:05 PM.
noelf2 is offline  
Old April 5, 2017, 06:02 PM   #6
Centurion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2016
Posts: 270
In any case you can manufacture it with less sulfur instead of none...
Centurion is offline  
Old April 5, 2017, 10:59 PM   #7
B.L.E.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX
Posts: 2,603
Quote:
Or maybe a small pre-load of about 5gn of regular Vectan in the back of the cylinder would work as a "starter" charge on a 23gn sulfurless load.
No. Don't use Vectan or any other brand of smokeless powder as a starter charge. While smokeless powder is a lot more powerful than black powder, it is not easy to ignite. That's why modern cartridge guns have very powerful primers.
In a duplex black powder/smokeless load, it's the black powder that serves as a starter charge for the smokeless, not vice versa.
If you want an easy to ignite starter charge, put one or two grains of commercially made black powder in first to ignite your sulfur free powder.
__________________
Hanlon's Razor
"Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."
B.L.E. is offline  
Old April 6, 2017, 01:57 PM   #8
Docthebiker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2017
Posts: 6
Thanks guys, it's the kind of info I was after. I've got top quality willow char, and I always purify my Kn03 before using it so I can cook it up strong without sulfur. I've got 1075 hi gh temperature rifle caps which should set it off. If not I'll put a little Vectan pnf2 BP in the chamber in front of the cap.
Docthebiker is offline  
Old April 6, 2017, 08:07 PM   #9
B.L.E.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX
Posts: 2,603
I wasn't aware that Vectan made black powder. I'm familiar with their smokeless powders and assumed that was what you meant. Apparently, their black powders are available in Europe. The U.S. distributor of Vectan doesn't offer it.
So disregard my post advising against using Vectan black powder.
__________________
Hanlon's Razor
"Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."
B.L.E. is offline  
Old April 7, 2017, 09:59 AM   #10
Docthebiker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2017
Posts: 6
Yep. When I go into the local gun shop I ask for Poudre Noire Vectan. rolleyes: Even though a lot of Swiss speak English (so much better then I speak French, German, or any Italian) they use the term "Gunpowder" when speaking in English, even though "Poudre Noire" is a literal translation of "Black Powder".

I'm surprised that they don't import Vectan BP into the USA. Even buying my powders in Switzerland and having my choice of the worlds finest commercial
BP, Vectan is consistent, powerful, and everyone carries it.
It's not even that expensive as a .44 six shot cylinder with 25gn paper cartridges load works out at exactly 1/2 €uro (53 cents) in powder.

Last edited by Docthebiker; April 7, 2017 at 11:24 AM.
Docthebiker is offline  
Old April 7, 2017, 10:09 AM   #11
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 10,442
You know those news stories about gun powder manufacturing factories turning to mushroom clouds and dust?
That can be duplicated, along with the gun powder.
Be careful there Doc.
How about just buying Hodgdon 777, it ain't that expensive, especially considering the possible alternative.
__________________
Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez:
“Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

Last edited by g.willikers; April 7, 2017 at 10:15 AM.
g.willikers is offline  
Old April 7, 2017, 11:54 AM   #12
Docthebiker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2017
Posts: 6
g.willikers I'm thinking of using the dry mix in a mixer and wet cook method (it's what I want to experiment with just to see what results I can get). I'll be switching on the mixer care of a 20 meter cable, and once it has the water added you couldn't set it off with an oxyacetylene torch.
The most dangerous point in that procedure is after it's been granulated and dried it can be ignited by the sieve. Mesh sieves are two intertwined layer of metal wire and can spark, while both metal and plastic sieves can build up a static charge.
That's a dangerous and often overlooked point of risk even in milled powders. They get through all the dangerous dusty bits (where a gnat's fart can set it off) with great care, and then because they've not blown themselves up, thus far, they relax.
Docthebiker is offline  
Old April 7, 2017, 06:57 PM   #13
B.L.E.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX
Posts: 2,603
Fortunately, we can obtain Swiss which many here regard as the benchmark of black powders, buy it's about 1.5 times as expensive as the other brands of powders available. Goex, Schuetzen (made by Wano in Germany), KIK made in Slovenia and a few others.
The problem for us is that government regulates black powder as an explosive and the rules and regulations discourage a lot of sporting goods stores from carrying it. Smokeless on the other hand is regulated as a flammable solid and is on the shelves everywhere.
The whole reason for the existence of black powder substitutes like Pyrodex and triple 7 is to provide muzzle loading propellants that don't fall in the explosive category. Which is why those can be bought at nearly any sporting goods store.
__________________
Hanlon's Razor
"Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."
B.L.E. is offline  
Reply

Tags
making powder , powder charge , sulfur

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07892 seconds with 10 queries