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Old June 30, 2019, 01:10 PM   #26
Aguila Blanca
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Theft under color of law. A New York specialty.
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Old June 30, 2019, 02:48 PM   #27
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He should have told his soon-to-be widow how to deal with the police. Something like say, "He sold the guns before he died" (do not say to whom or show them any paperwork) "Now have a nice day but get off of my property" and close the door. DO NOT give them permission to enter the house. If they have a search warrant, they won't ask for permission. If they lie about having a warrant that's grounds to sue them later.

If course they would probably barge in to arrest her for "obstruction" or "failing to follow an order", and then search the place pursuant to that arrest.

I think there's an opportunity here (not necessarily this case, but this situation in general) for the Mafia to perform a public service. Retrieving property stolen by the police. Charge a very nominal recovery fee, and maybe extra for breaking the legs of the cop that actually seized the guns. I think the public could get behind something like this, and it blurs any perceived distinction about who the real bad guys are. (I don't think there are any good guy, the Mafia is organized crime, the police are just a different gang of thugs sponsored by the government.)
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Old June 30, 2019, 03:23 PM   #28
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I just had an idea. (probably not a good idea, cue the Good Idea Fairy) What if people started filing theft claims on their homeowner's policies when the police steal their guns? What would happen? You'd probably have to sue the insurance company when they denied the claim, but I wonder how *that* would turn out?
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Old June 30, 2019, 04:15 PM   #29
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Apparently the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to dead people. I wonder how the Supreme Court would rule on this.
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Old June 30, 2019, 04:40 PM   #30
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Apparently the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to dead people. I wonder how the Supreme Court would rule on this.
That's true, they don't have rights anymore. But their property passes to the estate and their heirs do have rights. This seems more like a 5th Amendment case (Takings Clause) and a little bit 4th Amendment than 2A to me.
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Old July 1, 2019, 03:34 AM   #31
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Theft under color of law. A New York specialty.
hardly. It's a government specialty. NY just does it better than some.

But really, it depends on where you live and the people in your local government, and by that, I mean the people who run the police and set the official and unofficial policies.

My Dad had had a 7 handguns. Nobody came for them when he passed (2003). He lived in a small town in the northern part of Saratoga county. Can't say for certain how it is today, but then, the local folk were not in joyous lockstep with every idea that came out of Albany or NYC.

In the case where the police took the pistols from the son, if those pistols were listed on the son's permit (and they would have been if legally sold to him) it seems a clear and huge over-reach of authority. We are, however in an age where some police seem to operate on a "take the guns now, figure out if we're right or wrong, later" mode. Not just in New York.

Few people who haven't lived in their system really understand how obsessive NY (and similar places) can be. And, how they seem it ignore the passage of time....

Some 25 YEARS after I moved out of NY, they contacted me, and politely informed me that, since I was no longer a NY resident, my permit was no longer valid. (Imagine that!)

Then they went on to demand the permit back. They wanted the paper wallet size permit (issued more than 25 years before) returned!!

AND, they wanted to know the (physical) location of the pistols that were listed on the permit!!

My reply was ...less than polite.
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Old July 6, 2019, 02:08 AM   #32
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I am glad that you told them to go pound salt. As soon as I am able I am out of NYS!
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Old July 9, 2019, 07:54 PM   #33
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This has been going on in NY for years.

When Carol Ann's dad died, in Rochester NY, the cops showed up at her mom's house within a month to ask about his pistol, a 1911 45 he'd carried in WWII. They asked if she'd be giving it to someone else. She didn't know any better . . . and gave it to them. AAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!! I didn't know about that gun or much about guns at all back them. What a shame to lose that weapon.

Life is good.
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Old July 11, 2019, 02:30 PM   #34
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Damn good reason to haul handguns out of state within 15 days and transfer to a relative for later sale or use. You still have to go through a FFL.

Things like mentioned in this thread just confirm that I would do most anything not to live in NY state.
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Old July 11, 2019, 04:21 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by 22-rimfire
Damn good reason to haul handguns out of state within 15 days and transfer to a relative for later sale or use. You still have to go through a FFL.
Not necessarily. Interstate transfers for bequests or intestate succession are exempt from the FFL requirement.

State law may affect that, however.
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Old July 11, 2019, 07:34 PM   #36
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I live in a fairly small town. My Uncle was a Merchant Marine seaman during WWII. He brought a few trophies home after the war. My aunt made him throw away anything that had a swastika emblazoned on it, for cryin out loud!

When he passed, God rest his soul, the funeral director, a good friend of the family, told me there was a pistol found in his house and the police had it. It turned out to be a very early Walther PP, 32acp, in excellent condition. There was also a "Gott Mitt Uns" buckled leather belt and full flap German military holster.

It turned out a patrolman had it stashed in his locker and I had to finally go to the chief of police to finally get him to give it up. The chief seemed amused by the patrolman's reluctance to give it up after I told this cop several times that I wanted my Uncles pistol (my Aunt had passed way before this)

I had to wonder how many heirloom type weapons the police "inherit" when the family isn't aware or informed of their existence.
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Old July 11, 2019, 07:52 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22-rimfire
Damn good reason to haul handguns out of state within 15 days and transfer to a relative for later sale or use. You still have to go through a FFL.
Not necessarily. Interstate transfers for bequests or intestate succession are exempt from the FFL requirement.
I'm sure there's at least one reader out there who thinks I'm blowing smoke on this. Since I believe it's the responsibility of the party making a claim to provide supporting evidence/documentation, I'll follow up by citing 18 U.S. Code Section 922.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

Quote:
18 U.S. Code § 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

...
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Old July 12, 2019, 07:00 AM   #38
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when are people going to say enough is enough, i really believe this has to happen simply because if the DEMS get the white house it will be hell then.... please tell me i am wrong.
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Old August 2, 2019, 04:38 PM   #39
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Laws dont apply to police in many areas. Thats the way we have always done it is the answer.
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Old August 3, 2019, 08:47 PM   #40
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I agree NY is in a state of tyranny. That is why the state tries to convince us that we don't need a militia. The whole purpose of the militia is to confer such tyrany. Our founding fathers intended such. Maybe it's time to call up the militias and return our states back into compliance with the constitution and Bill of Rights.
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Old August 4, 2019, 07:56 AM   #41
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Laws dont apply to police in many areas.
The laws still apply. If they're not being enforced, that's a matter for another discussion.
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Old August 6, 2019, 12:31 AM   #42
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So dead people retain the right to bear arms? Do we have to ship them off to Valhalla strapped?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/cold-dead...wners-funerals
Quote:
The state law says that if the permit holder dies, the estate has 15 days to dispose of the guns or turn them in to authorities, who can hold the weapons up to two years. LoHud.com reported that violation of the law by survivors is a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and a fine.
15 days to transfer the gun/s to an heir or other legal permit holder. That's a lazy governmental thief.
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Old August 6, 2019, 10:17 PM   #43
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So dead people retain the right to bear arms?
Property rights for items owned by persons now deceased almost inevitably pass to other persons. It's not really taking guns from dead people, it's taking them from their heirs.
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Old August 11, 2019, 07:16 PM   #44
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I work in the Estate business, and we have seen some of the craziest stuff when it comes to firearms. Almost every municipality deals with these things differently.

More often than not, family makes firearms disappear from a home pretty quickly.
Usually without any paperwork.
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Old August 12, 2019, 10:38 PM   #45
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I guess if the dead can vote, they might very well shoot also....

I'm just kidding! it's too early for the zombie threads.
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Old August 12, 2019, 10:56 PM   #46
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More often than not, family makes firearms disappear from a home pretty quickly.
Usually without any paperwork.
As well they should, if otherwise the state is going to try to steal them.
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Old August 12, 2019, 11:04 PM   #47
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Wait. Does this mean they can't vote anymore either? That's a problem for Cuomo...
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Old August 15, 2019, 09:31 PM   #48
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JohnKSa.
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It's not really taking guns from dead people, it's taking them from their heirs.
But if the heirs follow the law the guns are not taken. That's what the article says.
While there may be disagreement about the need for a permit, that is the law. That was the law before the owner passed away, it is the law now that the owner is gone.
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Old August 15, 2019, 10:08 PM   #49
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You asked if dead people retained the right to bear arms. I pointed out that the persons actually losing the weapons were the heirs, not the dead people.

Yes, if the heirs know all the laws and know them ahead of time so they can make arrangements in the short amount of time after death (or perhaps before the death) to comply with the laws, then they will not lose the guns. If they don't, they will lose them.

EITHER way, it's not the dead people losing the guns, it's the heirs. Which means that questions about the 2nd amendment rights of dead people aren't really applicable to the situation because they aren't the ones who keep or lose the guns after their death--that's the only point I was trying to make in my response.
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Old August 15, 2019, 10:59 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Buzzcook
But if the heirs follow the law the guns are not taken. That's what the article says.
While there may be disagreement about the need for a permit, that is the law. That was the law before the owner passed away, it is the law now that the owner is gone.
But "the law" only gives the heirs (who may be in another state, or even another country, and who may not know anything about New York State's laws) just fifteen days to jump through all the legal hoops so they can take possession of their property. I don't know about New York, but in my state it could easily take fifteen days or more for the probate court to even approve the executor. Until that happens, nothing can be distributed. (At least, not officially and legally.)
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