Length of Pull

TheKlawMan · December 17, 2010, 03:06 AM

I am trying to figure out what I want in a new pump 12 and am a little confused on Length of Pull. The three I am looking at measure 14, 14, and 14 1/4" (Remmington 870, Mossberg 500, and Bennelli Nova/Supernova).

I have found a lot of threads talking about how to shorten or lengthen a stock, put harly anybody specifies their preferred LOP or their physical characreristics. I am 5' 8".

Would some of you mind saying how tall you are and your lop?

[I realize there are a lot of other factors involved, but I found an interesting chart indicating how LOPs tend to correlate with height. If it is correct, I should be fine with any one of the three as far as LOP is involved. It is located at http://www.herosarms.com/Selecting.htm#Table Yes, it appears to be based on a mere 17 subjects and individual LOPs are often 1/2" and in some cases more than the slope, but I understand an slightly short LOP is not a problem. Just stay away from too long an LOP.]

BTW, I also measured from the crook of my arm to the first digit of my trigger finger, with the arm bent 90 degrees, and got a measurement of 14 1/4".

So does it look as though I needn't worry about the LOP?

Thanks for your comments and advice.

Doyle · December 17, 2010, 08:18 AM

The "old timers" method of measuring lenght of pull from the curl of your trigger finger to the crook of your arm is a poor method at best. Length of pull is determined not just by height or how long your arm is but also by such factors as neck length, cheek thickness, shoulder thickness, clothing thickness, etc.

I'm no expert, but the way that has worked for me is to shoulder a gun and sight down the barrel like you are going to shoot it. Have another person measure the distance from the thumb knuckle of your grip hand to the bridge of your nose. You need somewhere between an inch and about 1 1/4" distance between the two. If you have more, you can trim the stock and reattach the recoil pad. If you have less, you can add a thicker recoil pad or a spacer.

oneounceload · December 17, 2010, 09:51 AM

There is a lot more to gun fit than just LOP - there is cast, pitch, drop at heel, drop at comb. When all of these are correct, the gun fits like a glove (and should for best results). Why some folks feel the need to cut their stocks even shorter so they have to "scrunch" up on the stock is beyond my comprehension.

Personally, I am about 6'3" - I like LOP's to range from 14-1/2 to 15-1/4. This all depends on the type of stock. More relaxed pistol grips allow a slightly longer LOP and still fit well, while a more pronounced grip needs to be better tailored to your dimension. An English stock, especially on a gun with double triggers, allows more leeway, as your trigger hand is moving back and forth to get to the other trigger

zippy13 · December 17, 2010, 11:01 AM

Buying a shotgun is a lot like buying a car if it didn't have an adjustable driver's seat. I'm over six feet and when I buy a new shotgun I just assume I'll have to have the stock custom fit. As oneounceload noted, there's more to stock fit than length of pull.

Stock fitting used to be one of the bread-and-butter services of your local gunsmith (along with drilling for scope mounts). These days some shotguns come with adjustable stocks (and rifles are pre-drilled for scope mounts). I'm lucky, ShockMaster custom stocks is only a few blocks from me. And, the business has passed from father to son, so it won't be aging-out soon as so many others gun related businesses already have.

KlawMan, at five-eight, you are more likely to find OEM stocks that will fit, or be very close to fitting, than those of us who a head taller or shorter. Don't get overly concerned about the actual fit of shot gun, especially if you find one that's a real stand-out except for fit. I know, we're always talking about the importance of a proper fitting shotgun stock; but, the proper fit can be done after you get the gun. Of course this doesn't mean that you shouldn't keep fit in mind. As Doyle mentioned, spacers can add length -- shortening and changing angles are more involved. 870/1100-type (and similar) stocks can have the wood shaved to change the angle slightly; but, with an older Winchester, with a V-joint at the receiver, it can't be done.

TheKlawMan · December 17, 2010, 02:41 PM

Doyle, I hear you about measuring from the elbow crook to the finger joint and see how easily it can be fudged, but I felt better when that little chart showed some correlatiion with height.

I am being a bit careful about trying to get a gun to fit off the rack as I am looking at sytnthetic stock models and they are difficult to trim which is why I am also looking at ones for which 13" stocks are available if needed. (I have seen where it is possible to trim up to an inch off of the Remington. http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/shotgun...youth-lop.html )

BTW. I do have an old H&R single shot model 1900 and it seems to fit pretty well, but the design of the stock is quite different from modern ones. It has a LOP of 13 1/4".

Thanks for your help Doyle.

TheKlawMan · December 17, 2010, 02:56 PM

Hi oneounceload. From what you and others write, I see the importance of numerous factors to achieving a fit but it interesting that with half a foot onn me you prefer an sg with a LOP of 14 1/2 to 15 1/4" and that suggests I may want to stick with the remington or mossbergs as each are 14" LOPs.

I could ask the guys at a local gun shop, but wonder if they are more interested in selling than fitting me with what is best for me.

One thing I noticed was that some weapons seemed to require me to force my head down in order to get a sight picture. That may be a problem with my neck but if is only with certain models I will stay away from them. (I think that was a chinese made stevenson 350 that some feel have a pronounced drop to its stock.)

oneounceload · December 17, 2010, 03:06 PM

Again, it all depends on all of the factors, including what I am wearing. For a hunting gun being used in cold weather when I have many layers on, a shorter LOP by 1/4 - 1/2 inch fits better than when it is summer and I am in a T-shirt. There are mechanical devices that will allow you to adjust the comb and others for the butt that allow you to adjust LOP, pitch, toe, even cast to some degree.

Height is one thing, but body build is another - take two folks at 5'-8" - one weighting 145 and the other weighing 245 - their stock needs will be quite different from one another even though they share the same height

zippy13 · December 17, 2010, 03:36 PM

Have you considered the option of having an adjustable butt plate adapter installed on your gun? Then you can try a multitude of stock settings at your leisure. When you get your stock dimension requirements dialed-in then you'll know exactly what to get in your next gun.

TheKlawMan · December 17, 2010, 04:00 PM

Happy Hollidays to you Zippy13. I think what you are saying about not worrying too much about the LOP may be on the money. As long as the LOP is in the area of what I supposedly should need, I may look more for the feel and sight picture.

Also, looking at chart I linked to, the one plotting height and fitted LOP, the writer only said that it was slightly better predictor than the length of arm method wich was not very accurate.

Still, between what you and the others have said, I don't believe I should be unduly concerned with LOP as compared to other features and the gerneral overall fit and feel of a weapon.

Thanks.

TheKlawMan · December 17, 2010, 04:12 PM

It seems that experienced great minds think alike, since both you, oneounceload and zippy13, proffered adjustable butt plates. I woner how well they work with synthetic stocks. Then again, I may have this wrong but believe something like that may come on the Bennelli Super Nova. I may be thinking of the recoil reducer.

(I wasn't thinking of the tactical looking adustable stock, which is what Bennelli seems to offer.)

oneounceload · December 17, 2010, 04:23 PM

Here is the RAD system:
http://www.hartshooting.com/

The Gracoil:
http://www.graco-corp.com/t/gracoil

The G-Squared:
http://www.shockmaster.com/

The Bumpbuster:
http://speedbumpstockworks.blogspot.com/

Counter Coil:
http://www.danuser.com/rrd/

There are others as well - while these all are designed to reduce felt recoil, most - if not all - can be adjusted for LOP and other stock dimensions, making your gun fit you better

TheKlawMan · December 17, 2010, 04:36 PM

oneoounce load, Looking at those I see that there there should be an after market solution if needed. I also checked and the Super Nova sees to do some of this. There are adjustment for drop and cast as well as LOP and recoil. http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/...upernova-1.htm

Again, thanks.

redrick · December 17, 2010, 04:54 PM

If you go with the Remington, they now have a youth stock that you can adjust the LOP from 13 to 14".

I am your same height and weigh 165 lbs. I just bought a 870P, it came at 13" LOP. It is ok, but I ordered a Hogue 12" LOP stock & forend today from Midway, to try out. I should get it Thursday.

TheKlawMan · December 17, 2010, 05:05 PM

Redrick, Interesting that your gun came with such a short OEM LOP of 13", but while we are both 5" 8", I have 40 pounds on you. How is it that yours came with a 13" LOP? Is it a Bantam or Youth stock?

redrick · December 17, 2010, 05:15 PM

It's a LEO model, I guess that is standard for it, with them wearing body armor.

TheKlawMan · December 17, 2010, 05:55 PM

It just dawned on me why you mentioned body armor. That is kind of the ultimate thick clothing like oneounceload talked about.

Dave McC · December 18, 2010, 11:36 PM

I'm about 6'1", well nourished, and the shotguns I shoot well have LOPs running from 14" to 16". My water fowling 870 is standard length, the 870 I use mostly for wingshooting during the warmer months is about 16" and my main clays gun, a Beretta O/U, is more than 15".

IMO, drop is more important, for one. We can fudge a little on the length by where we grip the forearm but the distance from the center of the pupil to the zygomatic arch( Cheekbone) is constant and unique to each of us.

So is cast. Getting the eye where it belongs directly behind the barrels is crucial to good shooting.

Don't let it scare you. Good fit pays off in better shooting in greater comfort.

As for length, if you can get two fingers on the comb between your nose and thumb when you're mounting the gun, you're close enough. Another check, mount an empty gun a few times and if you neither have to move the thing way back into your pocket nor have it snag as it rises, it's close enough.

HTH....

TheKlawMan · December 19, 2010, 01:33 AM

Thanks Dave McC. I think I am getting this fugured out and what seems complicated is much simpler.

I do have a hundred year old single shot H&R, but it isn't configured anything like a modern gun. Still, its 13 1/2" LOP is plainly to short for me, suggesting that a standard 14" may do me fine as I can easily get a thicker pad.

I think the thing to do is put some trust in the guys at Fowlers, a local gun shop, and see which of three or four weapons (within my budget) they stock they say is the best fit. Maybe I will be better off shopping for a better made used gun.

Dave McC · December 20, 2010, 08:51 AM

"...a better made used gun".....

Amen. Very few shotguns are ever worn out, most are ruined by neglect and abuse.

Some LGS folks are quite cognizant about fit. Some are absolute idiots. More of the former than latter, fortunately.

In any recent year, the shotguns I shoot have ranged from 870 Expresses to Purdeys, Model 21s etc. Universally, regardless of brand or MSRP, the ones that fit shoot better for me.

Good luck in your search......

BigJimP · December 20, 2010, 01:37 PM

Personally, I'm 6'5" and around 290 lbs ( and over-fed...to use Dave's analogy ....) ....but for all of my shotguns ( whether its a 12ga or a .410 ) ..... I'm most comfortable with LOP at 14 5/8". Most of my O/U's ( all Browning's like the Citori XS Skeet or XT Trap out of the factory come with 14 3/8" ) ....

My pump guns Browning BPS Hunter models in 12ga and 20ga come out of the factory shorter at 14 1/4" ....

But its easy to adjust them ... add 1/4" to 3/8" by putting on a different recoil pad or a spacer ...on a wood stock gun.

The only synthetic stock I have is a Benelli Super Sport ...and even though they spec the gun at 14 3/8" ...I still find it a little short. I manage with it / but I'd like it longer ....but to lengthen a synthetic stock can be an issue / depending on how the recoil pad mounts to the body of the stock. On the Benelli with the comfort tech system - its a problem - because they have snap in recoil pads / they don't anchor to the stock with screws.

If a gun is real light ....and shorter ...its a bigger issue / than if the gun is at what I consider my optimum weight ( around 8 1/2 lbs ) for a general purpose gun. All of this plays into swing characteristics ... But how the gun fits to your shoulder and face is far more important than 1/8" in LOP ...because if it fits properly in my shoulder and cheek / it will hit where I look ... and plus or minus 1/8" is ok. But plus or minus 1/4" ...is really noticeable ...at least to me.

It just takes time to get it dialed in / figure out what your LOP is ....

TheKlawMan · December 20, 2010, 02:29 PM

Thanks BigJimP. It seems I have to nearly go back to the beginning and check out the guns I am interested in all over, now that I know what to look for, which seems to be what I call my snap sight picture. Of couse I don't mind that to much. Before, I only noticed that with some I had to force my head into position to get a good targer picture but with others it was more natural.

Interesting that you mentioned the Bennelli with the comfort tech system because I was considering the super nova pump.

oneounceload · December 20, 2010, 02:32 PM

If you're looking at things from a new perspective, then going to your local gun club and borrowing/renting various types and actually shooting them will give you the best insight as to which ones will work for you - much better than just shouldering them in the store

Good luck, the hunt for the perfect gun never ends!

BigJimP · December 20, 2010, 02:39 PM

I don't know if the Super Nova and the SuperSport share the same carbon fibre stock configuration or not ?? / but I do think they use the same snap in recoil pads.

But even the longest pad for the Super Sport --- is only 14 3/8" ( which is how it comes standard ) --- and they sell optional pads at 14" and 13 1/2" ( to reduce the LOP ) ... and left handed vs right handed - but nothing longer than 14 3/8" although the marketing rep in my area for Benelli - told me something was coming out ( I still haven't seen it ??) But since you mentioned it - in one of your notes ...was why I mentioned it...

My Benelli is a backup ( or a rain or travel gun ) .....not a primary gun ....so I just live with it at 14 3/8" ( but the contour of the recoil pad - is why it feels a little short to me ). The recoil pads are expensive ( about $ 85 ) but I'm going to buy an extra one ... cut it on a bandsaw / and put an extra 1/2" into it ( as a wafer ) and see if it holds up ...

zippy13 · December 20, 2010, 02:53 PM

I know BigJim really likes his Benelli Super Sport. When he showed me how it works and how quickly and easily it dismounts, it made me think my old R-1100 belongs in a museum. Since I like to tease him, I tell him his SS looks like it would be more at home on Mars than a gun club or game field.

I concur with Jim on the snap-on butt pad system seeming pretty Matty Mattel. I suspect Benelli considers the Super Sport an "in progress" gun -- they do offer the Sport II with a walnut stock.

BigJimP · December 20, 2010, 03:04 PM

There are lots of different perspectives on "Fit" ....on this forum...

But "Fit", in my mind, is best characterized - as the gun hits where you look. You put a full choke in it / shoot at a 3" spot - at 21 yards ( is the Point of Impact - POI ) right on the spot, or left or low, or high ....etc...

To correct the gun, so it hits where you look - is to adjust the "Fit". Maybe you need a little higher comb, maybe lower, etc ...or maybe a parallel adjustable comb. Some of the guns may have shims / you insert between the receiver and the stock - to raise or lower / or to move left or right .... some guns don't have the shims. Some guns have adjustable combs / you can raise or lower - or move left or right ....but they aren't common on synthetic stocks. Some you can add in after-market / some you're just stuck with what you have - because it isn't economically adviseable to do much to a relatively inexpensive gun.

To me - picking another gun - is about the adjustability. That's part of why, in my "target guns" - I shoot parallel, adjustable comb guns - like the Browning Citori XS Skeet models / or the Benelli super sport - because it has shims and drop in inserts in comb and in recoil pad. The Benelli system is incremental ...but its not bad. Some of my older guns are fixed - like my older Browning BPS pump gun Hunter models. On those I have to use a
"stick on comb pad" and/or alter the LOP with a different recoil pad....

"Fit" - so the gun hits where you look / is almost impossible to tell in a shop unless you have many thousands of shells under your belt ...and really know how the gun is supposed to feel / and what you see down the rib when you open your eyes. You can come close .....but you really need to shoot a gun at a pattern board / to get your Point of Impact ...and then dial in the "Fit".

When I was a kid / we didn't know anything about "Fit" ....we shot guns in the family, guns were passed down, etc ..... At some point, we figured out what made the gun fit / so it hit where we looked ( a vest, sweater, or coat combination ) or whatever ..... so when we put our face on the comb / it was hitting where we looked. On any "angled" comb gun ....like the Super Nova or the Browning BPS .... if you move up or back on the comb as little as 1/2" the muzzle moves up or down accordingly ... so your point of impact really changes. Its just the way it is / with angled comb guns ...

I know you started by asking about LOP ....but its all rolled up in this issue of "Fit" like OneOunce and Zippy advised as well .../ just be patient ...and shoot as many guns as you can before you decide.

As an example, Browning Citori 625 with adj comb / does not have a parallel comb. Its a beautiful gun .....but it has too much drop at the comb for me / so that gun, with that stock configuration, is a very poor gun for me... Most all of the Beretta O/U's have too much drop at the comb / and I don't like the slimmer area around the grip of their guns ...so most all of the Beretta's will not fit me either ...( all of which I've learned over many years .... )...

So you kind of have to develop your learning curve ...

December 17, 2010, 03:06 AM	#1
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Length of Pull I am trying to figure out what I want in a new pump 12 and am a little confused on Length of Pull. The three I am looking at measure 14, 14, and 14 1/4" (Remmington 870, Mossberg 500, and Bennelli Nova/Supernova). I have found a lot of threads talking about how to shorten or lengthen a stock, put harly anybody specifies their preferred LOP or their physical characreristics. I am 5' 8". Would some of you mind saying how tall you are and your lop? [I realize there are a lot of other factors involved, but I found an interesting chart indicating how LOPs tend to correlate with height. If it is correct, I should be fine with any one of the three as far as LOP is involved. It is located at http://www.herosarms.com/Selecting.htm#Table Yes, it appears to be based on a mere 17 subjects and individual LOPs are often 1/2" and in some cases more than the slope, but I understand an slightly short LOP is not a problem. Just stay away from too long an LOP.] BTW, I also measured from the crook of my arm to the first digit of my trigger finger, with the arm bent 90 degrees, and got a measurement of 14 1/4". So does it look as though I needn't worry about the LOP? Thanks for your comments and advice. Last edited by TheKlawMan; December 17, 2010 at 03:33 AM.

December 17, 2010, 04:12 PM	#10
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	It seems that experienced great minds think alike, since both you, oneounceload and zippy13, proffered adjustable butt plates. I woner how well they work with synthetic stocks. Then again, I may have this wrong but believe something like that may come on the Bennelli Super Nova. I may be thinking of the recoil reducer. (I wasn't thinking of the tactical looking adustable stock, which is what Bennelli seems to offer.) Last edited by TheKlawMan; December 17, 2010 at 04:18 PM.

December 17, 2010, 08:18 AM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	The "old timers" method of measuring lenght of pull from the curl of your trigger finger to the crook of your arm is a poor method at best. Length of pull is determined not just by height or how long your arm is but also by such factors as neck length, cheek thickness, shoulder thickness, clothing thickness, etc. I'm no expert, but the way that has worked for me is to shoulder a gun and sight down the barrel like you are going to shoot it. Have another person measure the distance from the thumb knuckle of your grip hand to the bridge of your nose. You need somewhere between an inch and about 1 1/4" distance between the two. If you have more, you can trim the stock and reattach the recoil pad. If you have less, you can add a thicker recoil pad or a spacer.

December 17, 2010, 09:51 AM	#3
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	There is a lot more to gun fit than just LOP - there is cast, pitch, drop at heel, drop at comb. When all of these are correct, the gun fits like a glove (and should for best results). Why some folks feel the need to cut their stocks even shorter so they have to "scrunch" up on the stock is beyond my comprehension. Personally, I am about 6'3" - I like LOP's to range from 14-1/2 to 15-1/4. This all depends on the type of stock. More relaxed pistol grips allow a slightly longer LOP and still fit well, while a more pronounced grip needs to be better tailored to your dimension. An English stock, especially on a gun with double triggers, allows more leeway, as your trigger hand is moving back and forth to get to the other trigger

December 17, 2010, 11:01 AM	#4
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Buying a shotgun is a lot like buying a car if it didn't have an adjustable driver's seat. I'm over six feet and when I buy a new shotgun I just assume I'll have to have the stock custom fit. As oneounceload noted, there's more to stock fit than length of pull. Stock fitting used to be one of the bread-and-butter services of your local gunsmith (along with drilling for scope mounts). These days some shotguns come with adjustable stocks (and rifles are pre-drilled for scope mounts). I'm lucky, ShockMaster custom stocks is only a few blocks from me. And, the business has passed from father to son, so it won't be aging-out soon as so many others gun related businesses already have. KlawMan, at five-eight, you are more likely to find OEM stocks that will fit, or be very close to fitting, than those of us who a head taller or shorter. Don't get overly concerned about the actual fit of shot gun, especially if you find one that's a real stand-out except for fit. I know, we're always talking about the importance of a proper fitting shotgun stock; but, the proper fit can be done after you get the gun. Of course this doesn't mean that you shouldn't keep fit in mind. As Doyle mentioned, spacers can add length -- shortening and changing angles are more involved. 870/1100-type (and similar) stocks can have the wood shaved to change the angle slightly; but, with an older Winchester, with a V-joint at the receiver, it can't be done.

December 17, 2010, 02:41 PM	#5
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Doyle, I hear you about measuring from the elbow crook to the finger joint and see how easily it can be fudged, but I felt better when that little chart showed some correlatiion with height. I am being a bit careful about trying to get a gun to fit off the rack as I am looking at sytnthetic stock models and they are difficult to trim which is why I am also looking at ones for which 13" stocks are available if needed. (I have seen where it is possible to trim up to an inch off of the Remington. http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/shotgun...youth-lop.html ) BTW. I do have an old H&R single shot model 1900 and it seems to fit pretty well, but the design of the stock is quite different from modern ones. It has a LOP of 13 1/4". Thanks for your help Doyle.

December 17, 2010, 02:56 PM	#6
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Hi oneounceload. From what you and others write, I see the importance of numerous factors to achieving a fit but it interesting that with half a foot onn me you prefer an sg with a LOP of 14 1/2 to 15 1/4" and that suggests I may want to stick with the remington or mossbergs as each are 14" LOPs. I could ask the guys at a local gun shop, but wonder if they are more interested in selling than fitting me with what is best for me. One thing I noticed was that some weapons seemed to require me to force my head down in order to get a sight picture. That may be a problem with my neck but if is only with certain models I will stay away from them. (I think that was a chinese made stevenson 350 that some feel have a pronounced drop to its stock.)

December 17, 2010, 03:06 PM	#7
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Again, it all depends on all of the factors, including what I am wearing. For a hunting gun being used in cold weather when I have many layers on, a shorter LOP by 1/4 - 1/2 inch fits better than when it is summer and I am in a T-shirt. There are mechanical devices that will allow you to adjust the comb and others for the butt that allow you to adjust LOP, pitch, toe, even cast to some degree. Height is one thing, but body build is another - take two folks at 5'-8" - one weighting 145 and the other weighing 245 - their stock needs will be quite different from one another even though they share the same height

December 17, 2010, 03:36 PM	#8
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Have you considered the option of having an adjustable butt plate adapter installed on your gun? Then you can try a multitude of stock settings at your leisure. When you get your stock dimension requirements dialed-in then you'll know exactly what to get in your next gun.

December 17, 2010, 04:00 PM	#9
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Happy Hollidays to you Zippy13. I think what you are saying about not worrying too much about the LOP may be on the money. As long as the LOP is in the area of what I supposedly should need, I may look more for the feel and sight picture. Also, looking at chart I linked to, the one plotting height and fitted LOP, the writer only said that it was slightly better predictor than the length of arm method wich was not very accurate. Still, between what you and the others have said, I don't believe I should be unduly concerned with LOP as compared to other features and the gerneral overall fit and feel of a weapon. Thanks.

December 17, 2010, 04:23 PM	#11
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Here is the RAD system: http://www.hartshooting.com/ The Gracoil: http://www.graco-corp.com/t/gracoil The G-Squared: http://www.shockmaster.com/ The Bumpbuster: http://speedbumpstockworks.blogspot.com/ Counter Coil: http://www.danuser.com/rrd/ There are others as well - while these all are designed to reduce felt recoil, most - if not all - can be adjusted for LOP and other stock dimensions, making your gun fit you better

December 17, 2010, 04:36 PM	#12
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	oneoounce load, Looking at those I see that there there should be an after market solution if needed. I also checked and the Super Nova sees to do some of this. There are adjustment for drop and cast as well as LOP and recoil. http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/...upernova-1.htm Again, thanks.

December 17, 2010, 04:54 PM	#13
redrick Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,041	If you go with the Remington, they now have a youth stock that you can adjust the LOP from 13 to 14". I am your same height and weigh 165 lbs. I just bought a 870P, it came at 13" LOP. It is ok, but I ordered a Hogue 12" LOP stock & forend today from Midway, to try out. I should get it Thursday.

December 17, 2010, 05:05 PM	#14
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Redrick, Interesting that your gun came with such a short OEM LOP of 13", but while we are both 5" 8", I have 40 pounds on you. How is it that yours came with a 13" LOP? Is it a Bantam or Youth stock?

December 17, 2010, 05:15 PM	#15
redrick Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,041	It's a LEO model, I guess that is standard for it, with them wearing body armor.

December 17, 2010, 05:55 PM	#16
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	It just dawned on me why you mentioned body armor. That is kind of the ultimate thick clothing like oneounceload talked about.

December 18, 2010, 11:36 PM	#17
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	I'm about 6'1", well nourished, and the shotguns I shoot well have LOPs running from 14" to 16". My water fowling 870 is standard length, the 870 I use mostly for wingshooting during the warmer months is about 16" and my main clays gun, a Beretta O/U, is more than 15". IMO, drop is more important, for one. We can fudge a little on the length by where we grip the forearm but the distance from the center of the pupil to the zygomatic arch( Cheekbone) is constant and unique to each of us. So is cast. Getting the eye where it belongs directly behind the barrels is crucial to good shooting. Don't let it scare you. Good fit pays off in better shooting in greater comfort. As for length, if you can get two fingers on the comb between your nose and thumb when you're mounting the gun, you're close enough. Another check, mount an empty gun a few times and if you neither have to move the thing way back into your pocket nor have it snag as it rises, it's close enough. HTH....

December 19, 2010, 01:33 AM	#18
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Thanks Dave McC. I think I am getting this fugured out and what seems complicated is much simpler. I do have a hundred year old single shot H&R, but it isn't configured anything like a modern gun. Still, its 13 1/2" LOP is plainly to short for me, suggesting that a standard 14" may do me fine as I can easily get a thicker pad. I think the thing to do is put some trust in the guys at Fowlers, a local gun shop, and see which of three or four weapons (within my budget) they stock they say is the best fit. Maybe I will be better off shopping for a better made used gun.

December 20, 2010, 08:51 AM	#19
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	"...a better made used gun"..... Amen. Very few shotguns are ever worn out, most are ruined by neglect and abuse. Some LGS folks are quite cognizant about fit. Some are absolute idiots. More of the former than latter, fortunately. In any recent year, the shotguns I shoot have ranged from 870 Expresses to Purdeys, Model 21s etc. Universally, regardless of brand or MSRP, the ones that fit shoot better for me. Good luck in your search......

December 20, 2010, 01:37 PM	#20
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Personally, I'm 6'5" and around 290 lbs ( and over-fed...to use Dave's analogy ....) ....but for all of my shotguns ( whether its a 12ga or a .410 ) ..... I'm most comfortable with LOP at 14 5/8". Most of my O/U's ( all Browning's like the Citori XS Skeet or XT Trap out of the factory come with 14 3/8" ) .... My pump guns Browning BPS Hunter models in 12ga and 20ga come out of the factory shorter at 14 1/4" .... But its easy to adjust them ... add 1/4" to 3/8" by putting on a different recoil pad or a spacer ...on a wood stock gun. The only synthetic stock I have is a Benelli Super Sport ...and even though they spec the gun at 14 3/8" ...I still find it a little short. I manage with it / but I'd like it longer ....but to lengthen a synthetic stock can be an issue / depending on how the recoil pad mounts to the body of the stock. On the Benelli with the comfort tech system - its a problem - because they have snap in recoil pads / they don't anchor to the stock with screws. If a gun is real light ....and shorter ...its a bigger issue / than if the gun is at what I consider my optimum weight ( around 8 1/2 lbs ) for a general purpose gun. All of this plays into swing characteristics ... But how the gun fits to your shoulder and face is far more important than 1/8" in LOP ...because if it fits properly in my shoulder and cheek / it will hit where I look ... and plus or minus 1/8" is ok. But plus or minus 1/4" ...is really noticeable ...at least to me. It just takes time to get it dialed in / figure out what your LOP is ....

December 20, 2010, 02:29 PM	#21
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Thanks BigJimP. It seems I have to nearly go back to the beginning and check out the guns I am interested in all over, now that I know what to look for, which seems to be what I call my snap sight picture. Of couse I don't mind that to much. Before, I only noticed that with some I had to force my head into position to get a good targer picture but with others it was more natural. Interesting that you mentioned the Bennelli with the comfort tech system because I was considering the super nova pump.

December 20, 2010, 02:32 PM	#22
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	If you're looking at things from a new perspective, then going to your local gun club and borrowing/renting various types and actually shooting them will give you the best insight as to which ones will work for you - much better than just shouldering them in the store Good luck, the hunt for the perfect gun never ends!

December 20, 2010, 02:39 PM	#23
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I don't know if the Super Nova and the SuperSport share the same carbon fibre stock configuration or not ?? / but I do think they use the same snap in recoil pads. But even the longest pad for the Super Sport --- is only 14 3/8" ( which is how it comes standard ) --- and they sell optional pads at 14" and 13 1/2" ( to reduce the LOP ) ... and left handed vs right handed - but nothing longer than 14 3/8" although the marketing rep in my area for Benelli - told me something was coming out ( I still haven't seen it ??) But since you mentioned it - in one of your notes ...was why I mentioned it... My Benelli is a backup ( or a rain or travel gun ) .....not a primary gun ....so I just live with it at 14 3/8" ( but the contour of the recoil pad - is why it feels a little short to me ). The recoil pads are expensive ( about $ 85 ) but I'm going to buy an extra one ... cut it on a bandsaw / and put an extra 1/2" into it ( as a wafer ) and see if it holds up ...

December 20, 2010, 02:53 PM	#24
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	I know BigJim really likes his Benelli Super Sport. When he showed me how it works and how quickly and easily it dismounts, it made me think my old R-1100 belongs in a museum. Since I like to tease him, I tell him his SS looks like it would be more at home on Mars than a gun club or game field. I concur with Jim on the snap-on butt pad system seeming pretty Matty Mattel. I suspect Benelli considers the Super Sport an "in progress" gun -- they do offer the Sport II with a walnut stock.

December 20, 2010, 03:04 PM	#25
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	There are lots of different perspectives on "Fit" ....on this forum... But "Fit", in my mind, is best characterized - as the gun hits where you look. You put a full choke in it / shoot at a 3" spot - at 21 yards ( is the Point of Impact - POI ) right on the spot, or left or low, or high ....etc... To correct the gun, so it hits where you look - is to adjust the "Fit". Maybe you need a little higher comb, maybe lower, etc ...or maybe a parallel adjustable comb. Some of the guns may have shims / you insert between the receiver and the stock - to raise or lower / or to move left or right .... some guns don't have the shims. Some guns have adjustable combs / you can raise or lower - or move left or right ....but they aren't common on synthetic stocks. Some you can add in after-market / some you're just stuck with what you have - because it isn't economically adviseable to do much to a relatively inexpensive gun. To me - picking another gun - is about the adjustability. That's part of why, in my "target guns" - I shoot parallel, adjustable comb guns - like the Browning Citori XS Skeet models / or the Benelli super sport - because it has shims and drop in inserts in comb and in recoil pad. The Benelli system is incremental ...but its not bad. Some of my older guns are fixed - like my older Browning BPS pump gun Hunter models. On those I have to use a "stick on comb pad" and/or alter the LOP with a different recoil pad.... "Fit" - so the gun hits where you look / is almost impossible to tell in a shop unless you have many thousands of shells under your belt ...and really know how the gun is supposed to feel / and what you see down the rib when you open your eyes. You can come close .....but you really need to shoot a gun at a pattern board / to get your Point of Impact ...and then dial in the "Fit". When I was a kid / we didn't know anything about "Fit" ....we shot guns in the family, guns were passed down, etc ..... At some point, we figured out what made the gun fit / so it hit where we looked ( a vest, sweater, or coat combination ) or whatever ..... so when we put our face on the comb / it was hitting where we looked. On any "angled" comb gun ....like the Super Nova or the Browning BPS .... if you move up or back on the comb as little as 1/2" the muzzle moves up or down accordingly ... so your point of impact really changes. Its just the way it is / with angled comb guns ... I know you started by asking about LOP ....but its all rolled up in this issue of "Fit" like OneOunce and Zippy advised as well .../ just be patient ...and shoot as many guns as you can before you decide. As an example, Browning Citori 625 with adj comb / does not have a parallel comb. Its a beautiful gun .....but it has too much drop at the comb for me / so that gun, with that stock configuration, is a very poor gun for me... Most all of the Beretta O/U's have too much drop at the comb / and I don't like the slimmer area around the grip of their guns ...so most all of the Beretta's will not fit me either ...( all of which I've learned over many years .... )... So you kind of have to develop your learning curve ...