Binoculars

[Kestrel]

I'm looking for a new pair of binoculars. It doesn't really matter to me whether they are porro or roof prism, as long as they are bright and have good optics.

I would like a pair of 8x42, moderately priced. Something under $500 preferably. Some that I'm considering are:

- Nikon ATB Monarch 8x42 (these are roof prism) or a Nikon porro model with good multicoating. I like that the ATB Monarchs are under $300!

- Leupold with good multicoating. Lifetime warranty, I think. Don't know if the optics are as good as the Nikons, though.

- Steiner Marine 7x50. These are also under $300, but wonder how well the rubber coating holds up. Are the optics as good as the Nikons?

I haven't held any of these and will order them over the Internet. My criteria is:

- BRIGHT
- Comfort for long use (extended viewing)
- Good multicoating
- Nitrogen filled

Weight is not a big concern, although I don't want a brick. I don't mind porro-prism models, since they seem to be cheaper, if they are as good as roof-prism models. I read in a post that porros have better depth of field, anyway, which I like. If I go with a roof prism model, I want Phase coating.

Another question - I see several Steiner models in the 7x50 range. Is there a big difference in 7x compared to 8x binoculars? I'm looking for good magnification, but don't want the shake that comes with 10x. 7x50 would certainly offer good light transmission, with its' 7mm+ exit pupil. Are Steiners as bright and well made as the Nikon? (I currently have some 7x binoculars and was wanting a little higher magnification.)

Thanks for any suggestions.

[kphunter]

For hand-held binocs, the 8x42's are a great choice. The Monarchs would be fine, along with any of the Vortex models up to and including the Vipers. Also, Alpen makes very good binocs at this price.

I would stick with the roof prisms just because of the ease of use and weight factor.

KP

[sholling]

I just went through this and bought the 8x42 Vortex Viper over those other choices. They're the best bang for the $500 buck and you won't be disappointed!

http://www.optics4birding.com/vortex...rs-review.aspx
http://www.birddigiscoping.com/2006/...ar-review.html
http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/vortexviper.html
http://theopticsreview.com/category/binoculars/vortex/

8x42
10x42

[Kestrel]

Who is Vortex? I've not heard of them.

Thanks.

[PTS1]

I am no expert in optics but I spent a lot of time researching for a spotting scope and have come to learn that if you do not mind porro-prism design, then you will get the best bang for your buck. Apparently, it is more expensive to produce roof prism optics than porro and usually, porro optics are of better quality/performance than roofs of the same price. If $500 is your budget, then I would find porro-prism binocs that cost $500 from a respected name (leupold, nikon, bushnell, vortex...). That would get you a great set of optics with all the features you want!

[sholling]

Who is Vortex? I've not heard of them.

I hadn't heard of them that long ago either but they've apparently blown away the birdwatchers, and they're really the pickiest audience. They want the birds clear and bright and the colors not muted. I started to buy Leupold or Steiner to take to the auto races but folks talked me into a pair of Vortex Diamondbacks. I wanted a seriously wide field of view and that's what Diamondbacks are made for. I was very impressed. Then when I went looking for hunting optics I again thought Leupold, Steiner or Nikon but finally settled on the Vortex Viper for hunting after asking experts at Optics Talk (SWFA's forum), and reading reviews and finally talking with Eagle Optics. Everybody pretty much agreed that the Viper would blow away all of the Leupold "green ring" binoculars, and anybody else at that $500 price point. Do yourself a favor and pick up a harness ($15-20) to go with your new binoculars.

Field of View.......347 ft./1000 yds.
Eye Relief ........20mm
Close Focus........5.1 ft.
Weight...............23 oz.
Dimensions (HxW): 5.8 x 5.3 in.
Weatherproofing: Waterproof/Fogproof

[Steve C99]

A month ago I would have wholeheartedly agreed with scholling about the Viper. I have both the 8 and 10x42 Vipers, and they are terrific binoculars. However, I recently had a chance to review the Promaster Infinity Elite ELX ED 8x42. Now, I have no idea why they chose to continue their naming strategy the way they did. They have lesser quality Infinity and Infinity ELites. However the key here is ELX ED. This is an optics comment, but if it matters to you, they are made in China.

The whole deal was done without anyone knowing what they were or what they cost. The idea being to try for some open review comments.

Short story is this. These things cost $500. I bought an 8x42 and the Viper is going to go up for sale. They EASILY compare in image quality to much more expensive glass, and are noticeably brighter with better resolution than the Viper. As I said, I never thought I'd ever say this about the Viper at this price class.

They are an open bridge design of 28oz. They resemble the Bushnell Infinity more than the Vortex Razor. They have a water and oil repellent coating, and a fov of 393'. They have a fairly slow focus wheel rate.

CameralandNY sponsored the review and that is where I bought mine.

Sort of long winded for my first post, but the are really good optical instruments.

[FrankKD]

Sorry, this is my first post as well. I came from the same place as Steve. Here is a copy/paste of my review of the Promasters Steve mentioned. Easily the best binoculars optically in the $500 and under price range.

Yes, quite a mouthful but definitely worth it when your eyes are placed up against the eyepieces.

I know this binocular has been discussed quite intensely under the "Mystery Binocular..." thread but I really feel the need to continue to draw attention to it simply because I continue to be impressed by its optical performance.

Really, it is that good.

After finally receiving my 8x32 Nikon SE this morning I have been sitting on the backporch shifting back and forth between the SE, the 7x42 Zeiss FL and the Promaster ED. Think this is an unfair comparison? Think again.

I spent alot of time last week comparing the image of the Promaster ED to the 8x32 Swarovski EL, the 8.5x42 EL and the 7x42 SLC. I came to the conclusion that the Promaster actually offered the best centerfield apparent sharpness of any of those models. Yes, you read that correctly. The image in the Promaster is exceptionally sharp. Granted both the ELs and the SLC had better edge performance. I have repeatedly compared the Promater to the FL in regards to this particular characteristic. Exceptional centerfield sharpness with a moderate level of astigmatism in the outer 1/3rd of the field of view. Because of the flatness of the image (no field curvature) the astigmatism isn't that troublesome though it does "turn your eye" towards the extremely sharp centerfield.

I have now been comparing the FL, SE and Promaster. In my opinion the centerfield apparent sharpness of the Promaster is very close, if not at the same level as the FL and SE.

I am not exaggerating in the least.

Edge performance is better in the SE and brightness is better in the FL but the Promaster really does compare very well optically to both of these models. Both the FL and SE display an extremely neutral color representation. Probably the most neutral of any binoculars I have had the privelege to look through. Only in comparison to these two models does the Promaster display an ever so slight warm color bias. To give you some perspective the Promaster looks entirely neutral in comparison to the ELs and SLCs. Flare control is also very good in the variety of conditions I have had the opportunity to place these binoculars in.

For those of you that have not been following the Mystery binocular thread the Promaster is now selling at several camera-specialty stores for $500 US and around $550 for the 10x42 model. (From my understanding Promaster only sells to these types of stores so those of you waiting for Eagle Optics or Cabelas to start carrying these may be waiting a long time.)

From an optical standpoint I do not really have anything negative to say about these bins. What I have found though is that when a person is really pleased with the optical package of a binocular then they start being really picky of the physical package...and vice versa. I guess it is just our nature to want to try for the "perfect binocular". In the case of the Promaster its physical characteristics and overall ergonomics are entirely acceptable. After intense use over the last two weeks I do not really have any "major" complaints in this regard.

On the minor side...

...the eyecups could be slightly more contoured and slightly stiffer in movement

...the focusing tension could be just a hair "tighter" as there is some play in my unit

...the diopter arrangment could be a little "classier" but is entirely adequate in its current design

The focusing speed is slow by todays standards requiring 2.5 turns to go from a close focus of 6 feet to infiniti. I have found this to actually be an asset though as it really gives me superior control in dialing in the sharpest image possible. The thumb indents on the underside of the barrel are fairly shallow but they fit my hands quite well. Placing my right thumb in the indent and allowing my left hand to wander further up the barrel, closer to the objective, produces an extremely stable platform while still allowing for perfect finger placement on the focusing knob.

All and all I am extremely satisfied with this binocular...excited even when you consider that you now can buy a Chinese manufactured binocular at the $500 price point that performs at this level.

Low light performance? Excellent
Apparent sharpness? Superb
Color representation? Very neutral
Brightness? Excellent
Handling? Very good

Its features read like a checklist.....

ED objectives....................check
Fully multicoated lenses......check
Phase coated prisms...........check
Silver coated prisms...........check
Waterproof.......................check
Nitrogen purged.................check
Close focusing...................check
Wide field of view...............check
Oil/water repellent coating...check
"No fault" warranty..............check
Average "high end" weight.....check
Good ergonomics..................check

I had the opportunity to compare the EDs against almost all of my bins last night....the Leupold Yosemite 8x30, Celestron Ultima DX 8x32, Bushnell Discoverer 7x42, Zeiss FL 7x42, Zeiss Conquest 8x30.....and really only the FLs displayed slightly better image quality. (see picture below) The Promasters are the open-bridge style in the middle.

I strongly encourage all of you binocular aficionados out there to give these binoculars a try. They are going to start gaining a following quickly.

[kphunter]

Anyone know if the mystery binocular comes in a 15X size?

[FrankKD]

I am guessing that you are looking for a "Big Eyes" verison of this bin?

At the present time there only are 8x42 and 10x42 versions of this binocular.

[fisherman66]

Mystery binocular thread the Promaster

I was part of the review panel for Doug. The Promasters are very good. I found the depth of field somewhat flat, but I don't think that would be a problem in the field and the upside is a very short close range focus of 6ft. The glass is exceptional, but the whole package is somewhat pricey. As a value seeker is was drawn to the following.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62167

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/v...texvulture8x50

and the Leupold Yosemite (which Cameraland doesn't carry)

I ended up the the Minox 6.5x32 IF. I should get them in the mail in the middle of next week.
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62146

I don't consider myself an optics snob, but I have learned that cheap bins are a total waste of money. All the walmart specials I've bought are out of collimation and after looking at the Promasters the glass on the cheapies look like they are coated with saran wrap.

[Chuck Dye]

Don't forget internal reflection control.

I have some Pentax binoculars with glossy black internal surfaces and apparently undressed lens edges that make for very poor contrast under too many viewing conditions.

[Steve C99]

After reviewing the Promaster, I finally decided to get a pair for myself. They got here today. There have likely been some changes in the production run vs. the review sample. The image may be a little brighter (that's sort of an unquantifiable subjective term that I suppose doesn't mean much) but that's how it seems. The field of view seems cleaner further toward the edge of the field than on the review glass. I wish the depth of focus was better, but it is not bad, and actually somewhat better on the new one than on the review one. The depth of focus seems to increase as the observing distance increases. The distance resolution of this thing is awesome.

So, for $500, this thing is scary good. If the depth of focus was better, there would be no real observable differences between these and $1,000++ binoculars. I'd sure call Doug at Cameraland and ask him about them.

[fisherman66]

I got my Minox in from Doug today too. So far I'm very impressed.

[Kestrel]

Has anyone tried the Steiner 7x50 Marine model? I've heard that some Steiners may not be as bright as you would think, because of UV coatings or some such?

I'm also concerned about the sharpness of the "non-focus" design.

Anyone tried them?

[Steve C99]

Have an 8x30 Steiner Predator, but I've never tried a 7x50 Military/Marine. Actually what Steiner calls Auto Sport Fous is just their name for the old standard IF (Individual Focus). You have to adjust each eye with a diopter tyle focus ring located on each ocular. Focus for one eye, then the other. Has nothing to do with how good the image is. The image is controlled by the quality of the glass and coatings in the binocular. That Steiner should focus fine. I don't really like the image of my 8x30, but that is a function of the optics in that model more than the IF. You'll either like the depth of field as focused or accept the two eyed re-focus if you need to go closer to you. Personal choice there. I'll take a center focus wheel every time.

[fisherman66]

Steve, I have a focused depth of about 20 yards to 150 yards without touching the diopters. I played with the diopters last night, and I can spin both rings at the same time without moving the bins from my eyes. I will be hunting in relatively thick stuff, so 20-150 is just dandy as is the 6.5 power. But you are right, others would dislike the IF feature.

[Steve C99]

Fisherman'
You have better hand-eye coordination than I do. I thought I would be able to do that (focus both diopters at once), but I can never get it right. If IF is being considered, The 6.5x-7x would likely be better. Generally as magnification is increased, depth of focus decreases. I also happen to have a 6.5x32 Vortex Fury, a CF glass with the same sort of optics as the Minox. When I focus like you describe, the field is about what you describe. If focused at 100yds+, the field is about 40 yds to infinity. The Minox is probably about the same. So, yeah, its a purely personal preference deal.

However, I find that even with a real expensive binocular like the Swaro EL, which has a superior depth of focus, that I still can get a little beter view if I can bump the focus a bit to get just the right spot for whatever it is I'm loking at.

My reccomendation to the OP is that if you decide to try an IF binocular and don't happen to like it, the resale value of the Minox will be far better than the Steiner. The IF Steiners generally have a less appealing image, so they will be hard to sell without taking a bath. The Minox has lots of fans, and resale will be way easier. Me, I'd get the Minox over the Steiner and not look back if I was in the market for IF.

[Kestrel]

Steve,

What do you mean by less appealing image with the Steiners? Are they not as sharp? Not as bright? Poor contrast?

Thanks again.

[Jager78]

I also own a pair of 8x30 Steiner Predator Binos and love them.
I use them for hunting and they work great! Eye relief is great, they are light weight, and the rubber coating is awesome. I can set them down on the dash of my friend's boat and that's where they stay even flying over waves going at 45 mph on the lake! I suppose that's why the cost guard uses them.

Most Steiners are (and I am careful to use this term correctly) Mil-Spec designed. So you know they can take alot of abuse.

I guess it depends on what you will be using them for. I have found that my Steiners are great for every type of viewing I've used them for.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the three you listed.
All of those companies produce great optics.

Steiners work very well if you wear eyeglasses.

I know Leupold offers a lifetime warrenty and Steiner offers a 10 year, I'm not sure about Nikon.

[George Hill]

My picks:

10x25, Nikon Sportstar, $69.99. Super compact size and very light.

10x25, Nikon Prostaff, $139.99. Compact reverse poro prisms. Great optical quality for the size and those little 25mm objective lenses.

10x42, Hunters Edge Series 3, $149.99. Small and tough optics, not too expensive, but a good hard working set of glass to toss into your range bag. That's where I keep mine.

10x42, Bushnell Excursion. $149.99 to $199.99 depending on when and where you find them. If you can get them on sale, they are a heck of a good deal for the optical quality you are getting.

10x42, Leupold Acadia, $199.99. A great deal more light transmission and clarity than any other glass at this size and in this price range, in fact, they are often better than others that cost 100 bucks more.

10x50, Nikon Advantage. $199.99. These are fairly large roof prism binos, but they are very light in weight. I like the camo pattern. Works in desert and wetland areas. Great optical quality for the money.

10x42, Nikon Monarch, $299.99. Great optical quality, much like the Advantage, but much smaller. No Questions Asked Warranty makes this the better choice for serious hard use... such as for military guys wanting there own good glass.

10x42, Leupold Cascade, $309.99. One of the best binos on the market... I think the optics are a touch better than the Nikon Monarchs, but these guys don't have the No Questions Asked Warranty that Nikon has. This is my choice for uses that are not as hard as say an Infantry mission... but great for most any hunt.

10x50, Nikon Monarch. $399.99. Bigger and heavier than the 10x42 Monarchs, much longer too... but if you don't mind the weight, these are fantastic binos for the money.

10x42, Leupold Mojave, $419.99. Great glass and a good step up from the Cascades as these units do better in lower light. Normally there is an even playing field at the 300 dollar tier and another level up around 500 dollars... so this one occupies a middle ground.

10x42, Vortex Viper, $499.99. These are probably my all around favorite binoculars. The optical quality is striking. These units have one awards from the outdoor industry. Vortex has a great VIP warranty program and is probably the best company to work with for binoculars. Before these came out, I would have said Steiner Merlins here, but for the same money, these Vipers are just flat out better.

10x42 Vortex Razor, $796.99. These are longer than the Vipers, have an Open Hinge like the Swarovski EL series. We have a lot of guys that come in looking for Swarovskis, and walk about with the Razors. Looks similar to the Vipers when you look through them, but really stand out when you get into lower light or transitional light. That dusk magic hour is when these really shine compared to other optics.

Above this level, you have Swarovski. The SLC and the EL 10x42. These are hands down the best glass on the market. Don't even ask the price. The SLC is a tougher built, hard working set of glasses. These are for hunting and serious purpose. Very tough, very strong, and the view through them is nothing short of amazing. The EL's use a lighter magnesium housing with an open hinge design. Designed primarily for bird watching, it has a much closer minimum focal distance. Swarovski also spent a lot of time doing color correction work on these. Meaning that colors look brighter and crisper through these units than anything else.

Nikon also has a high level set of Binos out called the Edge. For 2 grand, they are more expensive than the Swaros. Sure, they are supposed to be fantastic, but Nikon is only making 30 to 40 pairs a month. So essentially these are vaporware.

Now you also have these upper level bino/rangefinder combo units like the Leica Geovids. I don't really like them at all. They are too big, bulky, heavy, and expensive. Rather than spend 2200 bucks on the Geovids, I'd rather have a set of Vipers and a Lieca 1200 and save almost a Grand.

[Steve C99]

Kestrel,

My bad, what I meant is that there is a lot of either love/hate for Steiner. The image I referred to is the public relations sort of image they have, not necessarily ihe image view the binocular gives. Also there is the same sort of love/hate with IF. My point was and is that it will likely be easier to get a decent resale on the Minox than with the Steiner. should you decide to with an IF binocular and then wish to sell it. Again, this is a personal deal and I see no reason to abandon CF. The Steiner Military/ Marine @ 7x50 ius probably pretty good, but it is pretty huge.

[Steve C99]

As to the Vipers. Not so long ago, they were my unquestioned $500 class binocular. After a couple of days hunting in wet, rainy, cold, dreary, dim and gray days, I have this to say. The Viper can't touch the Promaster Infinity Elite ELX ED which are the same money and dead on optical ringers for $1,000++ binoculars. The 8x Promaster shows more detail way out there than the 10x Viper.

[Kestrel]

Steve,

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know anything about a bad reputation for Steiner, I haven't kept up with the binocular world.

I've decided against them, anyway. From the descriptions, I'm sure I would prefer center focus.

Thanks

[wogpotter]

Having just researched for almost 9 months I just bought a set of the "Cabellas Alpha Extreme" in 8X42.
These are every bit as good as all the others mentioned, and for about $200.00.
I directly compared them for clarity, way out to the edges of the FOV (Where it's usually at it's worst), Field of view, contrast (snap), flare (Internal reflections that cause problems with contrast & make colored blobs of light), and ease of use.

One very nice feature is the ability to set individual eyesight correction very easily. The center focus knob sets normal focussing, but if you pull the knob out, against a firm click-stop, the individual eyesight correction is applied with the same knob. It's amazingly easy to set up this way, while being difficult to accidentally access because of the firm click-stop position.

I wear glasses, and because of this frequently have problems, even with the "EER" models, no such problewms here. I could easily see the whole field wearing glasses.
Also just a little thing, but good is the lens covers are permanently attached with rubber straps.

I am very satisfied with the results as compared to Leupold, Nikon, and Sowarski.
They got a field test for a week in the mountains, and came thru with flying colors.
You might want to check them out.