Brass cracking need help.

coyotewsm · January 28, 2014, 04:35 PM

I am loading rounds for my model 70 in 300 WSM. I'm have a problem with the brass cracking at the neck. My load is Remington brass, Federal gold metal primers, H4350 powder and 150 sierra gamekings btsp. Any suggestions?

TylerOutdoorsman · January 28, 2014, 04:41 PM

Sounds like your load might be too hot. How much powder are you using?

Powderman · January 28, 2014, 04:42 PM

Consider the brass first. How many times have you loaded those cases? Next, make sure you're lubricating the case necks, both inside and out.

If those are taken care of--and especially if you're shooting flat based bullets--consider using an expander that will actually put a slight bell in the case mouth.

wogpotter · January 28, 2014, 04:45 PM

Try basic annealing of the neck & shoulder.

AllenJ · January 28, 2014, 05:19 PM

+1 for Powderman's response. While many things can cause case necks to split usually it is due to case necks becoming brittle after 4-6 sizing's/firings. If this is the case you can try annealing or you can get some new cases.

Paul B. · January 28, 2014, 06:11 PM

I agree that most liely annealing wing take care of the problem if that brass hs been loaded multiple times. Maybe even if not.

Consider this. A few years back I bought a couple of bags of factory new Remington .308 Win. brass and loaded them up with my pet load of the time. AS few weeks later I took a couple boxes of the load to th rnge and hits were all over the place and some of the fired brass had cracked necked. Remember this was brand new unfired brass. When I checked the rest of the ammo in those boxes several more had cracked necks. When I got home I checked the rest of that 100 rounds and I lost 20 percent of that ammo. I pulled the bullets and removed the primers and annealed the remaining "good" cases, then reloaded them with the salvaged components. That brass then served me well until the primer pockets got too loose to be of any use. IIRC, my records showed I'll loaded that brass eight times before scrapping them.
Dunno what caused the "season cracking" as it's called but I'm thinking the annealing stage during manufacture was messed up in some way. Usually season cracking occurs when loaded ammo has been stored for a long period of time and the necks just crack from what? Old age and a not well done annealing? I have bought loaded WW2 milsurp 30-06 that had that type of neck cracking. Pulling the bullets and dumping the primers and annealing the cases usually fixed the problem. That batch of Remington brass was the first new brass I ever had do that.
Paul B.

Slamfire · January 28, 2014, 07:11 PM

Quote:

I'm have a problem with the brass cracking at the neck. My load is Remington brass, Federal gold metal primers, H4350 powder and 150 sierra gamekings btsp. Any suggestions

How long was this ammunition loaded and how old the powder? Very old gunpowder outgasses NOx and the nitric acid that comes out will crack case necks.

However, the most common cause of case necks is old brass that has been sized and fired too many times.

Jeff2131 · January 28, 2014, 08:12 PM

Lets start by stating what the load is. Also, the OP stated he was using btsp, which would be boat tail soft point/spire point, which means belling the mouth for flat base is null. In addition to that, 4320, 4064, and 3031 would be better choices for that weight. I was using 4350 when i started my 150gr .308's and found MUCH better results with a faster powder.

jmorris · January 29, 2014, 08:51 AM

They need to be annealed.

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

coyotewsm · January 29, 2014, 06:07 PM

Tyler im using 67 grains of h4350. To all those that said annealing im still new to this. What is annealing? Slamfire the ammo has only been loaded about 5 months. The powder could have been as old as ten years it was given to me however it had never been opened until this time last year. My brass has been reloaded 4 or 5 times.

jmorris · January 29, 2014, 06:28 PM

Look at the link I posted for information on what annealing is and how to do it.

Catfish · January 29, 2014, 06:39 PM

You are 1.5 gr. over what the manufacture recommends. This probably won`t blow up your gun, unless your shooting these loads in very hot weather, but it will shorten case life. If your new to reloading always stay at or below max recommended load. As for why the necks are splitting, it`s probably just bad or worn out brass. I have had several batches of Win. brass that the necks would split on the first loading. If you want some better brass get some Norma brass, it`s far better than Win. or Rem. I am using it in 300 wsm and necking it down to 6mm and having no trouble with the brass.

reloader28 · January 30, 2014, 09:34 AM

Catfish, where are you getting your info?
According to all of my books, that load is perfectly fine.

Coyotewsm, like I said in your other post, try annealing your brass. Dont get carried away buying all the scientific garbage everybody thinks you have to have to anneal.
Dim the lights, spin your case neck over a torch until it JUST starts to turn reddish (a couple seconds) and dip it in water to cool.
Thats how I've always done it and it works perfectly fine.

You can buy that Templaque or whatever it is if you want, but its not needed.

coyotewsm · January 31, 2014, 09:57 AM

Thanks for the info jpmorris, reloader28. Should I anneal the brass I have that has been used or start over with new brass.

243winxb · January 31, 2014, 10:16 AM

Brass may become brittle if it came in contact with ammonia or maybe vinegar based products. Annealing will not fix this. Brass can be annealed at any time.

Slamfire · January 31, 2014, 10:33 AM

Quote:

The powder could have been as old as ten years it was given to me however it had never been opened until this time last year

Only ten years? Maybe it is not deteriorating enough to cause your problem. If it is in the 20 year range, then its condition could be a cause for worry.

About not being opened, this is an old canard amongst the shooting community. The shooting flock does not understand the kinetics and thermodynamics of powder decay, given simple warnings, like “keep your powder cool and dry” , mindless gabbling between the bird brains over the decades have morphed this warning into an idea that as long as the can is kept sealed, keeping air moisture out, the powder is not going to decay. This is not true.

While I agree in keeping cans sealed, as lots of humidity is bad, sealing does not prevent powder deterioration. Gunpowder is deteriorating the day it leaves the factory as gunpowder is a high energy compound breaking down to lower energy basic elements.

Exposure to water and heat, particularly heat, accelerates the breakdown of powder.

Jimro · January 31, 2014, 10:42 AM

Quote:

My brass has been reloaded 4 or 5 times.

That's the problem right there. Brass needs annealing.

Jimro

January 28, 2014, 04:35 PM	#1
coyotewsm Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2014 Posts: 242	Brass cracking need help. I am loading rounds for my model 70 in 300 WSM. I'm have a problem with the brass cracking at the neck. My load is Remington brass, Federal gold metal primers, H4350 powder and 150 sierra gamekings btsp. Any suggestions?

January 28, 2014, 04:41 PM	#2
TylerOutdoorsman Member Join Date: October 21, 2012 Location: Waxahachie, TX Posts: 49	Sounds like your load might be too hot. How much powder are you using? __________________ "...Let he who does not have a sword, sell his cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36b Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

January 28, 2014, 04:42 PM	#3
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Consider the brass first. How many times have you loaded those cases? Next, make sure you're lubricating the case necks, both inside and out. If those are taken care of--and especially if you're shooting flat based bullets--consider using an expander that will actually put a slight bell in the case mouth. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

January 28, 2014, 04:45 PM	#4
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Try basic annealing of the neck & shoulder. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 28, 2014, 06:11 PM	#6
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	I agree that most liely annealing wing take care of the problem if that brass hs been loaded multiple times. Maybe even if not. Consider this. A few years back I bought a couple of bags of factory new Remington .308 Win. brass and loaded them up with my pet load of the time. AS few weeks later I took a couple boxes of the load to th rnge and hits were all over the place and some of the fired brass had cracked necked. Remember this was brand new unfired brass. When I checked the rest of the ammo in those boxes several more had cracked necks. When I got home I checked the rest of that 100 rounds and I lost 20 percent of that ammo. I pulled the bullets and removed the primers and annealed the remaining "good" cases, then reloaded them with the salvaged components. That brass then served me well until the primer pockets got too loose to be of any use. IIRC, my records showed I'll loaded that brass eight times before scrapping them. Dunno what caused the "season cracking" as it's called but I'm thinking the annealing stage during manufacture was messed up in some way. Usually season cracking occurs when loaded ammo has been stored for a long period of time and the necks just crack from what? Old age and a not well done annealing? I have bought loaded WW2 milsurp 30-06 that had that type of neck cracking. Pulling the bullets and dumping the primers and annealing the cases usually fixed the problem. That batch of Remington brass was the first new brass I ever had do that. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

January 28, 2014, 05:19 PM	#5
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	+1 for Powderman's response. While many things can cause case necks to split usually it is due to case necks becoming brittle after 4-6 sizing's/firings. If this is the case you can try annealing or you can get some new cases.

January 28, 2014, 08:12 PM	#8
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	Lets start by stating what the load is. Also, the OP stated he was using btsp, which would be boat tail soft point/spire point, which means belling the mouth for flat base is null. In addition to that, 4320, 4064, and 3031 would be better choices for that weight. I was using 4350 when i started my 150gr .308's and found MUCH better results with a faster powder. __________________ ---I DON'T DIAL 911---

January 29, 2014, 08:51 AM	#9
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	They need to be annealed. http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

January 29, 2014, 06:07 PM	#10
coyotewsm Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2014 Posts: 242	Tyler im using 67 grains of h4350. To all those that said annealing im still new to this. What is annealing? Slamfire the ammo has only been loaded about 5 months. The powder could have been as old as ten years it was given to me however it had never been opened until this time last year. My brass has been reloaded 4 or 5 times.

January 29, 2014, 06:28 PM	#11
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	Look at the link I posted for information on what annealing is and how to do it.

January 29, 2014, 06:39 PM	#12
Catfish Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 171	You are 1.5 gr. over what the manufacture recommends. This probably won`t blow up your gun, unless your shooting these loads in very hot weather, but it will shorten case life. If your new to reloading always stay at or below max recommended load. As for why the necks are splitting, it`s probably just bad or worn out brass. I have had several batches of Win. brass that the necks would split on the first loading. If you want some better brass get some Norma brass, it`s far better than Win. or Rem. I am using it in 300 wsm and necking it down to 6mm and having no trouble with the brass.

January 30, 2014, 09:34 AM	#13
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	Catfish, where are you getting your info? According to all of my books, that load is perfectly fine. Coyotewsm, like I said in your other post, try annealing your brass. Dont get carried away buying all the scientific garbage everybody thinks you have to have to anneal. Dim the lights, spin your case neck over a torch until it JUST starts to turn reddish (a couple seconds) and dip it in water to cool. Thats how I've always done it and it works perfectly fine. You can buy that Templaque or whatever it is if you want, but its not needed.

January 31, 2014, 09:57 AM	#14
coyotewsm Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2014 Posts: 242	Thanks for the info jpmorris, reloader28. Should I anneal the brass I have that has been used or start over with new brass.

January 31, 2014, 10:16 AM	#15
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Brass may become brittle if it came in contact with ammonia or maybe vinegar based products. Annealing will not fix this. Brass can be annealed at any time.