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Old September 14, 2021, 09:13 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by TunnelRat View Post
Yes. That’s American retailers marking up their products to take advantage of the situation. That’s not the same as Vista themselves doing this.

I mentioned buying Blazer Brass just two months ago for $0.28 a round. When I saw it I was in shock. I spoke to the owner of the store, moderate sized but not large, and asked him how he was able to sell it for that. He told me it was the same markup he always charged, not some special deal. When I asked him how the stores around him, some not even 5 min from his door, were charging $0.40 a round? He just looked at me and said, “I make it a habit not to speak badly of other business owners”. He could have easily charged $0.35 a round and the line would still have been out the door. Some retailers have no issue charging more.

That steel cased Russian ammunition didn’t magically increase 40% in cost when the ammunition ban was announced. It was already in the country and had been paid for. That was demand spiking and retailers adjusting their prices. I literally watched that night as ammoseek kept crashing and prices magically changed in a span of hours.


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There was a poster on another forum, from Belgium, who stated S&B 9mm was priced at 200 Euro ($236) for a case of 1k. This was posted on 9/12/21.

To me, that's inline with inflation added to pre-panic prices. S&B is part of an international company, I highly doubt they sell to Belgium for a lower price than they do the US (a far larger market). That flies in opposition to every principle of economics I've ever learned- the more you buy, the lower it should cost per item.
I'm unaware of any tariff on Czech products that would cause S&B to raise their prices here.

I also don't think that's because Belgium has less shooters, and therefore haven't depleted their past supply yet... shops over there would not have warehouses full of old ammo, at a 10 yr supply, simply because folks don't shoot as much over there. Instead, they just would buy less, maintaining a similar percentage over time.

In other words, I don't think S&B is setting the higher prices in the US. I think it's the sellers, who have discovered that the market will pay significantly more (and thus they get a much higher profit).
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Old September 14, 2021, 04:33 PM   #77
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US online ammo sellers are setting the prices as high. Not like in some evil cabal. But right, we all here have mentioned ammoseek.com. It's not like me, owner of family friendly owned SGammo or TargetSport isn't aware of that price. But somehow Madisonguns.com magically appears this year and can sell AE 147gr for cheaper than SGammo or TargetsportUSA.com? Hmmm...

It's provable because we have members here in other countries with normal pricing and perfect supply, yet their domestic ammo is coming to the US as high pricing. What magical thing happened on import that made it match US made pricing? Wolf steel 115gr at normal $6 a box is materially $2 different than US Federal AE 147gr or Speer Lawman 147gr?...

It's online shops. They are pricing high for two very obvious positions; 1.they can (Vista profit reporting has never been higher on ammo, a PUBLICLY traded commodity with Federal reporting requirements on the commodity) 2. if they run out at normal pricing, will they be able to get more in.

That Federal has 115gr FMJ AE at 28 dollars a box, but I can get (shipped free) Swiss made 124gr? hmm...

Geeze, if foreign purchase power on raw materials is lower, foreign ammo is coming from higher labor countries, foreign build scale is lower than US Vista.........it must be evil democrats or it must be inflation or it must be....or any other excuse than the clear obvious answer: US retailers are selling high cause they can and US consumers are buying it high.

With Club pricing, when ammo is in stock at the largest online retailer of handgun ammo in the us (Cabelas), the pricing isn't ALL that different from before.

Throw stones? Throw them right at the "community" that supplies ammo. Blame economics, blame the Russian ammo ban, blame any liberal opinion you've ever imagined...but it's the owners of ammo shops.

Australia, getting most of Winchester's ammo right now, price is set at contract. Is Winchester currently dying from material costs? nope.
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Old September 14, 2021, 04:46 PM   #78
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Is ammo availabilty getting better yet?

Online retailers recognizing when they can make a larger profit and pricing their ammunition to do so isn’t mutually exclusive with inflation. Two things can happen at the same time. There is inflation, I’ve pointed you to the articles about the increase in the consumer price index (CPI) before. The prices we’re seeing reflect more than just inflation. As for people claiming blaming Democrats or throwing stones, once again who on this thread is doing that? Give us the name of the member or it’s just a strawman argument.


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Old September 14, 2021, 05:49 PM   #79
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Inflation is indexed to a commodity price.

Ie, a consumer good is up by a %, therefore the consumer price is up this percent. That is not true with ammunition. So anything above that indexed inflation on raw goods is pure profit.

The US govt has no policy or market controls that makes foreign ammo like Norma, Geco, Foicchi, Aguila, S&B equal in cost to US made.

So when our Swiss based member says prices are normal in Switzerland, a socialized country at a higher wage than the US and confirmed by another person just above this, that means US ammo sellers are causing the price increase above the indexed inflation.

Inflation has appeared to stagnated as reported by the Financial Times today.
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Old September 14, 2021, 05:51 PM   #80
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Is ammo availabilty getting better yet?

I explicitly said the prices we are seeing reflect more than just inflation. My point was and remains the two aren’t mutually exclusive. I was the one who originally made the argument to you that it was the sellers that are the main drivers of the cost increases we have seen rather than just Vista price fixing.


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Old September 14, 2021, 05:55 PM   #81
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I don't disagree you said it.

However, I just want to super stress, because if you see in this thread, people are blaming inflation. Inflation is more prevalent now than when ammo was more expensive a year ago. So where in the world is this even coming from?

Inflation did not rise to over double on $9 of 9mm ammunition. It certainly did not rise 4xs.

Additionally, I could make a convincing argument that the majority of people on online forums at one point have said they don't shoot steel crap ammo through their guns but then turn around to say Wolf steel ban is going to negatively affect them. What?
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Old September 14, 2021, 06:06 PM   #82
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For all the "Economics" talk, you don't see Adam Smith defenders do what Adam Smith directs consumers to do in all his writings: call out those with higher prices and call for regulation when price setting occurs because the market is broken.

Yes. WE the consumer should be calling out the big ammo sellers who benefited from our patronage like SGammo, TargetSportUSA, LG Outdoors and the like and ask, if you are pro gun community and we KNOW you are getting low fixed pricing by Vista, can't you ride out the lack of inventory from selling at normal prices (thus increasing your customer base loyalty)? In fact, you never see that on gun forums. At least, I'm feeling pretty lonely pointing it out that ammo retailers are inflating prices just to have inventory with no substantive new cost to them.

The fact there is so much junk (Belom, STV, BPS, Century) 9mm ammunition shows the cost to foreign companies has decreased and importing is now profitable....all while people are pointing to inflation on ammo. That does not jive that countries have less purchasing power than the US so how aren't equally or greater harmed to inflation on materials. It simply ruins the argument ammo increases is in any meaningful way tied to inflation. Like, at all.

If the answer is no, then US ammo retailers and US ammo hoarders and resellers out of their home are the sole cause of this problem. Any talking on the subject that doesn't point blame on ammo retailers is like talking about emphysema without allowing anyone to even mention smoking.
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Old September 14, 2021, 06:15 PM   #83
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Is ammo availabilty getting better yet?

It’s not entirely wrong of them to mention inflation, it’s just not the sole or main factor. I like to think we’re not so myopic that we can consider more than one topic at a time. When you disregard it entirely without recognizing it at all it doesn’t get those people to see your point of view. You acknowledge that yes it’s a factor, but then you pivot to how it’s not the main factor (which is what your responses to me do). That’s how you actually convince people versus yelling into the void.

As for the Russian ammunition and the potential impact of that ban. I do not typically shoot steel cased ammunition. However, over the past year the supply of ammunition in the US market has been strained in no small part due to panic buying causing a surge in demand. If steel cased ammunition is no longer available, and the import licenses aren’t due for renewal yet so that will take some time, then the buyers of the ammunition will likely buy something else. Their other alternative is to not shoot at all (which helps prices but has other implications). This could increase demand for brass cased ammunition in a market that has already had issues with supply meeting demand and currently sees much higher prices than before.

In the short term the most we should see is an increase in the cost of steel cased ammunition as demand increases in that market, again from panic buying. As long as steel cased ammunition stays cheaper than brass cased ammunition I don’t foresee prices on brass cased ammunition increasing dramatically. However, I have already seen some sellers take advantage of the situation and brass cased 9mm ammunition that was dipping down to $0.34 a round go back to $0.38 a round. I bought Ruag from ammoshoponline for $0.35 a round shipped before the Russian ammo ban.

It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me to think we will see some price increases from the Russian ammo ban. Much like inflation there’s some truth in all of this. We acknowledge the parts that are true, but at the same time try to stop the panic from creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

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Old September 14, 2021, 09:13 PM   #84
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The fact there is so much junk (Belom, STV, BPS, Century) 9mm ammunition
To be fair, Belom is apparently not junk
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Haven't heard of Belom yet? You will! This is brass cased, new manufacture from Serbia and simply wonderful shooting ammo. Starting with 9mm (9x19mm) and 7.62x39mm coming to the USA, we're sure you'll find Belom is poised to be your favorite new ammunition.

Belom is PPU's sister company. PPU is used to primarily service the commercial market and Belom was set up specifically for the LE/MIL market. Their quality systems, testing, machinery, manufacturing processes, and raw materials are in place to meet Military standards. This means with Belom, commercial customers are getting military grade ammunition at commercial pricing.
PPU is generally considered to be decent, and all political discussions aside the Serbs make good stuff. If that's what they issue their military, it should be fine.
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Old September 15, 2021, 03:44 AM   #85
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US online ammo sellers are setting the prices as high. Not like in some evil cabal. But right, we all here have mentioned ammoseek.com. It's not like me, owner of family friendly owned SGammo or TargetSport isn't aware of that price. But somehow Madisonguns.com magically appears this year and can sell AE 147gr for cheaper than SGammo or TargetsportUSA.com? Hmmm...

It's provable because we have members here in other countries with normal pricing and perfect supply, yet their domestic ammo is coming to the US as high pricing. What magical thing happened on import that made it match US made pricing? Wolf steel 115gr at normal $6 a box is materially $2 different than US Federal AE 147gr or Speer Lawman 147gr?...

It's online shops. They are pricing high for two very obvious positions; 1.they can (Vista profit reporting has never been higher on ammo, a PUBLICLY traded commodity with Federal reporting requirements on the commodity) 2. if they run out at normal pricing, will they be able to get more in.

That Federal has 115gr FMJ AE at 28 dollars a box, but I can get (shipped free) Swiss made 124gr? hmm...

Geeze, if foreign purchase power on raw materials is lower, foreign ammo is coming from higher labor countries, foreign build scale is lower than US Vista.........it must be evil democrats or it must be inflation or it must be....or any other excuse than the clear obvious answer: US retailers are selling high cause they can and US consumers are buying it high.

With Club pricing, when ammo is in stock at the largest online retailer of handgun ammo in the us (Cabelas), the pricing isn't ALL that different from before.

Throw stones? Throw them right at the "community" that supplies ammo. Blame economics, blame the Russian ammo ban, blame any liberal opinion you've ever imagined...but it's the owners of ammo shops.

Australia, getting most of Winchester's ammo right now, price is set at contract. Is Winchester currently dying from material costs? nope.
Not all then different than before? Really, you were paying those prices before the shortage? No wonder I never bought any from Cabela's.
Maybe I read your post wrong.
Before the shortage I was paying $6.95 a box from target Sports, delivered right to the door step. (Tula/Wolf. )


TSAE9AP - AE9AP Federal American Eagle 9mm Luger Ammo 124 Grain Full Metal Jacket-Box of 50 4 $8.73 $34.92 (one order from Target Sports)

No, I do not see anyone blaming inflation, except in the regards of just one of many reasons for higher prices.
And for sure, I have NOT done any Panic Buying. Just have not been BUYING hardly at all period.

No matter how you cut it. This hobby is over for me. Prices will never go back to being reasonable. The only hope is, 22.cal will not go into a major shortage. I realize that I will have to pay 9mm prices for 22.cal if there is stock and if ****** ****** Biden does not end the 2A altogether. He still has more than 3 years left to "F" up just about every thing and in that regards, he is doing one heck of a job.
But I am not panicked over ammo. I am not in DENIAL. I am facing it.

Ammo is becoming a less of a concern for me. I have a Son that is headed over into Iraq in Nov. And that scares the Crap out of me.
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Old September 15, 2021, 07:38 AM   #86
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Your logic is junk and growing a bit tiresome.

Here's a perfect example. Republicans controlled all branches of government under President Trump.

Obama banned Saiga rifles because of Russia's takeover in Ukraine, yes? Did Trump reverse that ban?

So it seems to me, yet again, we have Democrats punishing Russian aggression. This ban on ammo is due to the use of nerve agents. Totally unacceptable to us nerve agents. Russia is the country NATO was founded against. Punishment is directly tied to Russian weapons, private and otherwise. But again, Republicans won't punish Russia, won't create their own punishment, but will continue to have an issue with the punishment.

Also, your hobby was destroyed by the hobby maker thanks to the K recovery Democrats are worried about with zero mention from Republicans. K recovery is some are doing better now and some are doing worse. That is the entire basis of the Democrat appeal. Trying to help the lower leg of the K. Undoubtedly there are enough people in American who are doing better now who can afford current pricing on ammo. Based on "economics," ammo would come down if people weren't buying it.

To turn a profit during an odd time that isn't a sustained time, your ammunition hobby community has clearly shown IT doesn't care one fig about you.

It's the ammo retailers. Clear and simple. Stop blaming everyone else.
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Old September 15, 2021, 08:01 AM   #87
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Inflation has appeared to stagnated as reported by the Financial Times today.
Nooooooo, inflation is at about 6% !!

Consumer's inflation (CPI) that is, give me a minute and I will look up producer's inflation (Producers Price Index)

CPI % change, annualized

9/15/2021:

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File Type: jpg Inflation August 2021.JPG (77.7 KB, 114 views)
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Old September 15, 2021, 08:08 AM   #88
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Here it is, PPI (producer's price index) inflation from the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, hovering at 8.5%

BLS's PPI % change

August 15 2021 PPI % change:




Thus: IF the cost for producer's in general is going up by 8.5% from a year ago.... what has been the increase in ammo price in comparison?

Draw your own conclusions for the reasons for the ammo price increase, but inflation should only account for 8.5% max.

Hey! This gave me a great idea for a 101 assignment, maybe I'll use it in class:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

ASSIGNMENT: Due date - when your pet stops chewing on your homework.

Consider a commodity at equilibrium in a perfectly competitive market (i.e. ammo). Draw such equilibrium, correctly labeling the graph axis and curves. Then, use comparative static analysis to make predictions based on the following scenario:

1) Consider the effect that general inflation would have on the graph. Which part of the graph would be affected by it? And how (would it shift, in what direction)? Explain your answer.

2) Now suppose that there is a great influx of buyers into the market for this commodity. How would this affect the graphs? Explain the reasons for shifts and their direction (if any). Would the equilibrium price and quantity be affected?

3) Lastly, now factor in a shortage in inputs brought about by external unforeseeable effects (such as pandemic). Would any of the graphs shift, and how? And would the equilibrium be affected?

4) Draw conclusions for the whole scenario. Explain in detail with graphs, text and references (if needed).

BONUS) How would a ban on imports of this commodity affect this picture?
If it does, do you think that a ban imposed by executive order would have a different effect that one impose by legislative action? How?

You are allowed to work in groups (no more than 2 students). If so, please turn in ONE ASSIGNMENT with both students names on (or else your grade will be divided by 2).
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File Type: jpg PPI inflation August 2021.JPG (86.2 KB, 110 views)
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Old September 15, 2021, 08:30 AM   #89
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Conservative Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aaronsm...their-bullets/

Retail bullets are inflated. Nothing to do with raw goods. So...it's retailers inflating. Not American economy "inflation"
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Old September 15, 2021, 08:31 AM   #90
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Take out used cars from your index. What happened?

Let's pretend used cars isn't most of US "inflation." Didn't you just prove the point? Even with US used cars factored in "inflation," are you buying ammo at only 8% higher costs?

Again. It's ammunition retailers. Blame no one else but them. Your retail gun community is against you.
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Old September 15, 2021, 08:36 AM   #91
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Take out used cars from your index. What happened?
From which one?

You can do it yourself. Go to the BLS link that I provided and play with the categories in the graph, including or excluding any that you do not wish to analyze.

Used cars (or used anything) are not part of GDP and thus generally ignored in the PPI or from the GDP deflator calculated inflation.
Used cars are included in the CPI calculated inflation.

In order to evaluate what is happening in the ammo market, it is PPI inflation that you should work with, not CPI inflation.
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Old September 15, 2021, 08:37 AM   #92
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So you don't know that US used cars is most of the US inflation but you are going to speak on it?
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Old September 15, 2021, 08:41 AM   #93
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So you don't know that US used cars is most of the US inflation but you are going to speak on it?
Ah, they are?? And I don't know it? But yeah maybe I shouldn't speak on it if I am not on the clock.

What kind of US inflation are you talking about? Because you can calculate it based on the GDP deflator, on the CPI, on the PPI, and on many other macro statistics that I am not going to get into. There is no one single measure of inflation.

Inflation numbers are calculated by the BLS. I provided you with a link for the BLS's calculated inflation. In that link, you can include or exclude any categories you'd like.

There are THREE things going on in the ammo market right now.

1) an inflationary bout that should only account for 8.5% max of the increase in ammo price.

2) an influx of new buyers into the market causing an expansionary shift in demand (shift right). Ammo is a "complimentary good" to firearms, so as the demand for firearms goes up, the demand for ammo does the same. This accounts for a significant increase in the price.

3) a supply constraint due to the effects of industrial disruptions because of the pandemic. The supply shifts left, and this accounts for another increase in the price.

Is somebody gouging and making (temporarily) extraordinary profits? Sure. So they did with toilet paper a few months ago, cleaning supplies, PPU and masks, beef.... It is the market system. But as long as the market is perfectly competitive, such behavior is short lived.

Now IF the market is NOT perfectly competitive (such as is the case in phone service, internet, telecoms, HEALTH CARE.....) then the gouging is CONSTANT. It is called "imperfectly competitive pricing power".

You see, when people talk about the US economy they talk about the "FREE MARKET", as if the whole country was one unified market. It is not. The US economy, like any other "free" economy, is made of thousands of different markets, and each market has a different structure. That means that each market behaves completely differently.

The "Free market" that everybody talks praise about, is the "perfectly competitive market". I think that in the case of ammo, it is as close to a perfectly competitive market as you could have and as such, there is very little room for gouging behavior and when it happens, it is short lived. Now, don't get me started on health care...
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Old September 15, 2021, 09:16 AM   #94
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Is ammo availabilty getting better yet?

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Originally Posted by Pistoler0 View Post
Ah, they are?? And I don't know it?

What kind of US inflation are you talking about? Because you can calculate it based on the GDP deflator, on the CPI, on the PPI, and on many other macro statistics that I am not going to get into.

Inflation is calculated by the BLS. I provided you with a link for the BLS's calculated inflation. In that link, you can include or exclude any categories you'd like.

There are THREE things going on in the ammo market right now.

1) an inflationary bout that should only account for 8.5% max of the increase in ammo price.

2) an influx of new buyers into the market causing an expansionary shift in demand (shift right). Ammo is a "complimentary good" to firearms, so as the demand for firearms goes up, the demand for ammo does the same. This accounts for a significant increase in the price.

3) a supply constraint due to the effects of industrial disruptions because of the pandemic. The supply shifts left, and this accounts for another increase in the price.

Thank you for saving me some time. What we have seen is microeconomics in a nutshell.

Could retailers sell for less? Sure, and some have (ammo prices around me locally never went to $1 a round of 9mm whereas many online vendors did). I’ve made an effort to prioritize purchases at places I see as more buyer friendly, with most people I know engaging in the same behavior. However, all places both online and locally are well above just inflation, so your only option for not supporting increased prices at all is to not purchase at all (and I think doing that would create a short term solution for some but not alleviate the long term problem for all). In addition, similar to rent control, artificial price control of ammunition can create its own problems. That 9mm ammunition I bought for $0.28 a round sold out in two days, a couple pallets worth. That same store now has no 9mm ammunition to sell, even to customers who would willing pay more than $0.28 a round. While I benefited personally because of fortunate timing, others are now out of luck.

If someone wants to blame retailers I can understand it, and as I myself said there are definitely some retailers that are less buyer friendly than others. However, I think I and all other people are just as guilty in the end. I could make less income from my job and survive. Do I voluntarily donate all of that additional income or give it back to my employer? No. I am also self interested, and I use some of that money for shooting. Most people are self interested and so are these retailers.

Additionally, while we have had millions of new gun owners, there has been loads of panic buying. People want to make sure they can shoot and the price hasn’t been high enough to stop them from purchasing. The buying public seems just as guilty to me as we are also a part of this market. People want to shoot and while some people will leave the market it seems readily apparent that others, even many on this thread, will pay increased prices even if we complain about them at the same time.


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Old September 15, 2021, 09:25 AM   #95
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Your logic is junk and growing a bit tiresome.

Here's a perfect example. Republicans controlled all branches of government under President Trump.

Obama banned Saiga rifles because of Russia's takeover in Ukraine, yes? Did Trump reverse that ban?

So it seems to me, yet again, we have Democrats punishing Russian aggression. This ban on ammo is due to the use of nerve agents. Totally unacceptable to us nerve agents. Russia is the country NATO was founded against. Punishment is directly tied to Russian weapons, private and otherwise. But again, Republicans won't punish Russia, won't create their own punishment, but will continue to have an issue with the punishment.

Also, your hobby was destroyed by the hobby maker thanks to the K recovery Democrats are worried about with zero mention from Republicans. K recovery is some are doing better now and some are doing worse. That is the entire basis of the Democrat appeal. Trying to help the lower leg of the K. Undoubtedly there are enough people in American who are doing better now who can afford current pricing on ammo. Based on "economics," ammo would come down if people weren't buying it.

To turn a profit during an odd time that isn't a sustained time, your ammunition hobby community has clearly shown IT doesn't care one fig about you.

It's the ammo retailers. Clear and simple. Stop blaming everyone else.
What is growing tiresome is your pompous belief that you are a expert on the economy. Clearly you are not. And again, you said that you were buying ammo from Cabela's for WHAT? Lol.
And you did not read my post. I clearly said inflation was just one of MANY reasons for the high cost. Sounds like I hit a hot button with you when I insulted Biden. I really do not care one way or the other.
And read my last paragraph. I have resigned to the fact that ammo "regardless of reasons" is here to stay and under BIDEN get much worse. You want to give your EXPERT advice? Give it. I am not buying it or ammo.
Like I said, Right now I have more on my Plate to worry about then Biden screwing up the 2A and the future of Ammo prices. I will be glad for you to tell others your expert advice. on the economy while insulting others with their opinions. And Biden can **** off.
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Old September 15, 2021, 09:27 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by TunnelRat View Post
Thank you for saving me some time. What we have seen is microeconomics in a nutshell.

Could retailers sell for less? Sure, and some have (ammo prices around me locally never went to $1 a round of 9mm whereas many online vendors did). I’ve made an effort to prioritize purchases at places I see as more buyer friendly, with most people I know engaging in the same behavior. However, all places both online and locally are well above just inflation, so your only option for not supporting increased prices at all is to not purchase at all (and I think doing that would create a short term solution for some but not alleviate the long term problem for all). In addition, similar to rent control, artificial price control of ammunition can create its own problems. That 9mm ammunition I bought for $0.28 a round sold out in two days, a couple pallets worth. That same store now has no 9mm ammunition to sell, even to customers who would willing pay more than $0.28 a round. While I benefited personally because of fortunate timing, others are now out of luck.

If someone wants to blame retailers I can understand it, and as I myself said there are definitely some retailers that are less buyer friendly than others. However, I think I and all other people are just as guilty in the end. I could make less income from my job and survive. Do I voluntarily donate all of that additional income or give it back to my employer? No. I am also self interested, and I use some of that money for shooting. Most people are self interested and so are these retailers.

Additionally, while we have had millions of new gun owners, there has been loads of panic buying. People want to make sure they can shoot and the price hasn’t been high enough to stop them from purchasing. The buying public seems just as guilty to me as we are also a part of this market. People want to shoot and while some people will leave the market it seems readily apparent that others, even many on this thread, will pay increased prices even if we complain about them at the same time.


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Exactly,

and I forgot to add the stupid Biden Russian ban, that would be a 4th factor, another supply restriction. Basically this was a "perfect storm".

<<there has been loads of panic buying>>

I was, knowingly, guilty of this.

I also panic bought tp. I am still going through my stash, he he.
And beef. I also panic bought beef.

And some vendors made money out of that. So what? It is short lived.
Everybody relax. Ammo will be cheap again, and then hoard it up! Because you know what? Time will come again where there is another perfect storm that results in a shortage.

So stack up the ammo and the tp.
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Last edited by Pistoler0; September 15, 2021 at 10:18 AM.
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Old September 15, 2021, 01:57 PM   #97
reddog81
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The buyers are just as much to blame as the sellers. Demand went up and people were willing to pay more. Retailers should have raised the prices quicker and more dramatically when this all started. Once the shelves are bare and people start panic buying anything they can find it's just a downward spiral.

If a retailer can only get 100 boxes of ammo per day should they sell that ammo at $10 per box, $20 per box, or $30 per box? If consumers are willing to pay $30 per box it makes no sense to sell for less.
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Old September 15, 2021, 02:37 PM   #98
wild cat mccane
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It's not blame. It's what you stated, is fact.

So the ammunition retailers are increasing pricing to a point that buyers are accepting.

Agreed. So if both sides agreed to this, we have to agree that everything else is just noise.
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Old September 15, 2021, 04:11 PM   #99
reddog81
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Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
Again. It's ammunition retailers. Blame no one else but them. Your retail gun community is against you.
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Old September 15, 2021, 06:35 PM   #100
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LGS is selling primers and most ammo at near pre-DEMpanic pricing.
Their price increases are due to SHIPPING COSTS and, in some cases., wholesale cost.
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