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Old February 28, 2017, 05:21 PM   #1
Model12Win
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French Sniper ND: A Reminder

Guys a French sniper experienced a negligent discharge when he was changing positions during an overwatch operation covering President Hollande during a speech:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.9b40c5ebc8a1

This is as good a reminder as any to say KEEP YOU BOOGER HOOK OFF THE BANG SWITCH until you're ready to engage tangos. Two reported injured, no fatalities. This operator probably feels more than a little "red in the face" and luckily it didn't turn out even worse.

M12
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Old February 28, 2017, 05:47 PM   #2
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1. Treat all guns as loaded
2. Keep guns pointed in a safe direction at all times
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire
4. Know your target and what is beyond.

fail on #2, #3
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Old February 28, 2017, 06:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
changing positions during an overwatch operation covering President Hollande during a speech:
Sniper
overwatch
political speech, not combat..

what possible reason could there be to move with a LOADED CHAMBER???

(with a holstered handgun I can see it, with a sniper rifle?? no.)

Not only bad gun handling, but also bad tactics.

IMHO.
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Old February 28, 2017, 09:00 PM   #4
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Ah, always so quick to argue semantics. .44 AMP is always right.

Kidding bud.
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Old February 28, 2017, 11:01 PM   #5
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The article is pretty light on facts and relies on hearsay or possibly just a WAG for the cause of the ND. Not nearly enough to leap to conclusions over.
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Old March 1, 2017, 01:05 AM   #6
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It does seem awfully unprofessional for a supposed "expert." Weapon off safe, finger on trigger while repositioning?

At the risk of provoking the black helicopter crowd, could something else have been going on?
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Old March 1, 2017, 08:25 AM   #7
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Maybe he had a Remington tactical and was going to do a chamber check or unload.
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Old March 1, 2017, 12:56 PM   #8
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Okay the sniper did bad, but notice the lack of reaction by the President and lack of reaction by anybody to protect the President.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7604421.html

Just what sort of security do they have there?
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Old March 1, 2017, 02:25 PM   #9
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DNS---Yeah, that is a remarkable video. I suspect our president would be at the bottom of a dog pile of secret service agents if that had happened here.

I thought the French version of the secret service was top-notch but my TOTAL information of them comes from reading 'Day of the Jackal'. (And I'm not much kidding here.)
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Old March 1, 2017, 08:43 PM   #10
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Just goes to show it happens to the best of us. On an overwatch position such as that you would have one in the chamber to enable you to engage a target as quickly as possible. Safety should have been on. He goofed, but I would say that 99% of us have let one go when we weren't really expecting it. That pointing in a safe direction rule is the most important of all.
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Old March 2, 2017, 09:37 AM   #11
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Betcha he's an "ex sniper" now.
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Old March 2, 2017, 12:15 PM   #12
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somebody has to pick up and sort the brass at the training range.....
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Old March 2, 2017, 01:11 PM   #13
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And mop the driveway in the rain...
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Old March 2, 2017, 09:29 PM   #14
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"what possible reason could there be to move with a LOADED CHAMBER???"

If that sniper needs to fire, he needs to fire NOW, not after he removes the gun from the arms room, cleans the bore, loads the magazine, loads the chamber, takes off the safety, considers all the possible alternatives, etc. etc.

Wanna bet our Secret Service snipers work under the same rules as the French do?

Jim
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Old March 2, 2017, 10:06 PM   #15
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They do.

There are several things here that could have happened but most likely it was human error. The most illuminating thing was the lack of response by the close in security that had to have been present.
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Old March 3, 2017, 08:34 AM   #16
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ok, silly question I know...

Couldn't he have raised the bolt lever, not necessarily fully opening the chamber and removing the round? Would that have helped to lessen the chance of a ND? It doesn't take much to lock the handle back down, you could do it as you are lining up to take a shot...

Just a devil's advocate question as I've always changed shooting positions either with an unloaded rifle or cleared and open chamber...
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Old March 3, 2017, 02:08 PM   #17
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In group maneuvers, combat and defense drills we are taught to take cover to shoot from. When you have to move you use a full mag, notify your partner and with a ready gun you move as quickly as possible to new cover. I am sure that police and security folks are taught the same way. The only safety in use, under active conditions, is the operator of the gun.
You don't use a safety, lift the bolt or otherwise disable your weapon if you want to be alive when the exercise is over.
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Old March 4, 2017, 10:32 AM   #18
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I wouldn't expect a sniper to unload his rifle when changing position. As long as the finger is off the trigger and good muzzle discipline is maintained unloading would be foolish under the circumstances.

There's probably more to this story than we've been told.
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Old March 7, 2017, 11:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirdan View Post
It does seem awfully unprofessional for a supposed "expert." Weapon off safe, finger on trigger while repositioning?



At the risk of provoking the black helicopter crowd, could something else have been going on?


I had the same thought. Maybe they shot someone over something and weren't exactly in the right?


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Old March 7, 2017, 11:03 PM   #20
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Not sure why everyone automatically assumes he had the gun off safe and his finger was on the trigger, did I miss that in the article?

I did see he repositioned himself, when I read that I assume he got up and moved to a more advantageous location, nor simply adjusting his body.

I wonder if this was more of a case of a collision of unforeseen events. I.e. sniper realizes he needs to move his FFP, he then quickly gathers equipment and starts to reposition. While leaving or entering new FFP, safety gets disingaged by a piece of equipment while simultainusly triger gets hooked on some gear.

You say it can't happen, well I guess you haven't spent enough time training. In my years as a trainer I've seen it more than once and been a victim of it once.
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Old March 9, 2017, 10:26 AM   #21
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French SWAT shoot each other

Well the French aren't exactly known for their tactics, like this SWAT team making a half entry then shooting each other in cross fire
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Old March 9, 2017, 11:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
French SWAT shoot each other

Well the French aren't exactly known for their tactics, like this SWAT team making a half entry then shooting each other in cross fire
That isn't what the video description reads.

We aren't any better. If you are just trying to denegrate the French SWAT for some reason by dogpiling examples of problems, I can come up with a list of friendly fire US SWAT issues such as Lubbock, Richardson, Denver, Dallas, Orlando, Folks Township, etc.
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Old March 9, 2017, 03:41 PM   #23
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Blue-on-blue happens.
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Old March 11, 2017, 08:27 PM   #24
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There was an incident here. Way back in the eighties, George Bush was visiting here, our pd went to provide security. Sniper was climbing a ladder to the roof hatch, and God knows wow, fired his rifle.

Wth? Climbing up a ladder inside the building to open a h watch and take position, and his rifle was loaded, safety off, and he somehow touched it off with the vice president's plane coming in overhead?
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