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Old August 25, 2015, 10:52 PM   #1
Hiker 1
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What inaccuracies can we dispel?

As we've seen with recent threads, there are some "interesting" ideas floating around in our community.

What illusions/inaccuracies can we dispel to help each other prepare for potential defensive encounters?

I'll start with one:
too often, there is an assumption that the good guy will have significant time to prepare for the encounter. I submit that most interpersonal violence comes very quickly and often with little or no warning.

We need to prepare to react much quicker in both mindset and toolset.

What else can we discuss to in order to keep ourselves mentally flexible for real-world situations?
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Old August 26, 2015, 07:52 AM   #2
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"I don't need training, I've had guns my whole life" <--- last fired one 6 years ago.

Sound silly? I got this yesterday from a person who wants me to sign off on a CCW permit application I got yesterday. Now up set because I'm requiring her to go to the range for Safety Training and has to fire a qualification course.

Says the state only requires proof of knowledge of the firearm, safe loading and use, but no actual live fire required.

Though that is true, if something happens, I'm going to be dragged into court. We're going to the range, any bets we leave with would be CC permits upset with me.

I have to qualify once a year per the LEOSA, you can bet I'm not signing off anything until I see them shoot.
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Old August 26, 2015, 09:01 AM   #3
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kraigwy - so true. My grandfather (wonderful man) owned guns his whole life, served in WW2 and never did any target practice. He thought it was a waste of money.
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Old August 26, 2015, 09:20 AM   #4
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Every attacker will fight to the death and cannot be deterred unless dead or paralyzed, and he who carries the most bullets wins.
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Old August 26, 2015, 10:41 AM   #5
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimSr
Every attacker will fight to the death and cannot be deterred unless dead or paralyzed,...
Not really a good example.

While it's not true that every person who attacks an innocent will fight until definitively stopped, in fact most probably won't, the guy you wind up having to defend yourself against just might be the exception. So you do need to be prepared to deal with it.
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Old August 26, 2015, 11:23 AM   #6
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There is plenty of pistol powder for reloaders.

Now that's an illusion!

Frank - It appears TimSr was trying to state that everyone fighting to the death was a illusion. Many (if not most) would likely cut and run when faced with a determined defender.

My submission is like kraigwy's.

Knowing about something does not make one able to perform the something, especially in a high stress situation. I’ll confess my brain can get tangled at the sound of the timer in simple IPDA stages. Hard to tell what would happen in real life encounter.
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Old August 26, 2015, 11:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serf 'rett
...Frank - It appears TimSr was trying to state that everyone fighting to the death was a illusion. Many (if not most) would likely cut and run when faced with a determined defender...
Yes, and my point was that it's not necessarily an illusion. While many, if not most, assailants will cut and run, some will not.

So since you can't interview and pick your assailant ahead of time, you might wind up attacked by one of the more persistent ones; and you therefore need to be prepared for that.
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Old August 26, 2015, 01:34 PM   #8
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How about less chatter about what gun or caliber is necessary to save the day, and more conversation about the skills needed to survive.
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Old August 26, 2015, 01:34 PM   #9
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Every attacker will fight to the death and cannot be deterred unless dead or paralyzed.

Not every attacker will fight to the death and cannot be deterred unless dead or paralyzed.


Which one is the myth that should be dispelled, Frank?
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Old August 26, 2015, 04:26 PM   #10
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Not trying to speak for Frank, but I believe he is saying that we should be prepared for either situation.

We could find ourselves in an encounter where presentation of our firearm is enough to end the encounter or we could find ourselves dealing with a person who, due to mental or chemical reasons, refuses to give up and doesn't even acknowledge being injured.
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Old August 26, 2015, 04:33 PM   #11
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Another subject I'd like to address is the prepackaged scenario and the boxed solution.

Many of our defense conscious friends only envision 1 or 2 types of dangerous encounters when we know that a real encounter may be nothing like what we have mentally prepared for.

Example:

Scenario: glass breaking at 3:00, grab the family, barricade the door, rack the 870, call the cops

Reality: drunk ex-neighbor shows up in front yard while you're raking leaves. He's holding a bible and a crowbar and demanding to know why you ruined him and slept with his wife (assuming you didn't )
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Old August 26, 2015, 04:34 PM   #12
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Five shots are plenty unless you are planning to miss several times.
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Old August 26, 2015, 07:05 PM   #13
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No offense to all the sharpshooters out there but I never plan to miss. But based on my own experiences (and no one else's), I expect to miss some of the time. But I'm still around and if I'm lucky, I might make it to retirement age. By the way, I'm 69 now and I do plan to retire, although I don't really expect to.
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Old August 26, 2015, 07:17 PM   #14
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Virtually guaranteed 1 shot stops with (insert number here) caliber handgun round...
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Old August 26, 2015, 07:57 PM   #15
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9MM HP - guy told me that in Academy a few days ago. Has to be true.

Fat commando clerk (I should talk) in Austin's big deal gun store - If you take more than one shot, YOU ain't doing your job.

He was selling some good old boy on a J frame.
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Old August 26, 2015, 08:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimSr
Every attacker will fight to the death and cannot be deterred unless dead or paralyzed.
That is a myth because many, probably most, will not press the fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimSr
...Not every attacker will fight to the death and cannot be deterred unless dead or paralyzed....
That is not a myth at all. Some attackers will continue to fight until definitively (physiologically) stopped. However, many, perhaps most, will not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiker 1
Not trying to speak for Frank, but I believe he is saying that we should be prepared for either situation.

We could find ourselves in an encounter where presentation of our firearm is enough to end the encounter or we could find ourselves dealing with a person who, due to mental or chemical reasons, refuses to give up and doesn't even acknowledge being injured.
Correct.
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Old August 26, 2015, 09:41 PM   #17
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More myths, and the cliches that support them:

In a confrontation between a gun carrier and a knife wielder, the gunman always wins - "Never bring a knife to a gun fight".

Small handgun calibers like .22 Short, .25 ACP, .32 S&W and .32 ACP are useless and can't possibly harm anyone - "If you shoot me with that and I find out..."

No rifle is any good unless it can shoot into one fourth MOA - "Only accurate rifles are interesting."

Bad guys never practice and can't hit anything, so there is no risk to me in drawing my gun in self defense. - "Crooks can't shoot..."

Criminals carry cheap SNS guns that usually won't fire or are so inaccurate they can't hit anything. - Many gunzine and even police sources.

A home defender can't miss with a shotgun. - "A shotgun will fill a room with a cloud of shot" (a well known gun testing magazine).

A shotgun charge won't penetrate dry wall, so a shotgun is safe to use inside. (Same magazine.)

A light on a handgun is a perfect way to spotlight the opponent. - "The bad guy won't use the light as a target because he will be blinded by it." (Manufacturers and sellers of weapon lights).

An armed citizen who kills in self defense will not be arrested or face any legal consequences. - "Good shooting, Johnny," said the sheriff, "the drinks are on me." (Common Western movie myth.)

Jim
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Old August 27, 2015, 12:16 AM   #18
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"Reloading will save you money." - Sure it does, if you don't place monetary value on your time and/or if it's purely a hobby. Kinda unfair economically. If time has no value then everything is free, isn't it. It's also cheaper to walk somewhere versus driving, if you don't mind walking for 10 days to get to your location.

"You can reload when all the shelves are bare." - Well this assumes that you have all 4 of the components AND time.

"Guns were cheaper 50 years ago." - Yes, if you don't factor in inflation. Most common guns for daily use are more affordable today than in the last 100 years.

"Guns were made better 50 years ago..." - Well, maybe, maybe not. Modern quality guns might very well last longer than the quality guns of yesteryear. Polymers and modern metals may be more resistant to age than the steel and wood used in prior generations. Time will tell.
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Old August 27, 2015, 07:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Not trying to speak for Frank, but I believe he is saying that we should be prepared for either situation.
I'll refer back to the title of this thread. I agree we should be prepared for both, but that is off topic.
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Old August 27, 2015, 07:51 AM   #20
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One of the biggest inaccuracies I see on gun boards is that.
More, most, less and some equate to all, every, not and none.
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Old August 27, 2015, 07:52 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimSr
Every attacker will fight to the death and cannot be deterred unless dead or paralyzed.

Quote:
That is a myth because many, probably most, will not press the fight.
Good, then we are in total agreement.
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Old August 27, 2015, 09:05 AM   #22
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Five shots are plenty unless you are planning to miss several times.

Agree that this is a potentially dangerous myth.

A 5 shot revolver is a perfectly fine weapon if the shooter understands its limitations and understands the different types of dangerous encounters: multiple attackers, attackers high or drunk, etc.
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Old August 27, 2015, 09:15 AM   #23
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Some guns were better made fifty years ago--and better still 75 years ago. And some guns were certainly cheaper, too, only they weren't the same guns.

There were a lot of cheap guns being manufactured before WWII, although apparently few continued after the war. H&R kept turning them out for a while and some of their .22 revolvers had quite a following. Before the war, though, there were all sorts of small caliber revolvers, mostly .32 and .38 S&Ws, most of which were break-tops, being sold, including from S&W. There was a market for things like that. Today, of course, there's still a market for small caliber, small handguns. And I don't want to be shot by any of them.

I think reloading can lower the cost of shooting some calibers but you quickly turn things upside down to the point that you shoot in order to justify reloading.

Does anyone think their handloads are better than factory ammunition?
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Old August 27, 2015, 09:21 AM   #24
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I'll go challenge him, and I'll take my gun--I may need it for self defense.
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Old August 27, 2015, 09:47 AM   #25
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knockdown power!!!
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