The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 4, 2015, 09:53 PM   #76
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,945
Quote:
I frequently hear someone using one or another of the small pocketable guns explain that they're only using it for "up close", as if they feel the need to justify themselves, and some will go on to offer that they know it's not accurate as far as a larger gun.

Depending on the owner's mindset, attitude and willingness (to pay attention and perhaps learn something), I'll often try to explain how one of the good quality little guns are really only limited by the skillset of the user, and are often capable of much greater inherent and practical accuracy than might be suspected. Some folks are quite surprised when I show them I can shoot one of my DAO J's and hit steel at 40-50yds, more often, and more quickly, than they can manage with their full-size duty pistols
The user is always always the weakest link. If you dont practice shooting at 50 yards (or any of the other "Ill never need to do that" type things), it really isnt going to make much of a difference in what youre shooting with.

I think the reason you hear "its only for up close", is because that person hasnt/doesnt practice for anything else (if they really practice at all), and has things like the "rule of threes" fixed in their minds (Im begining to think thats more a sales pitch/justification thing for those little guns, than anything else), that thats all they need prepare for, and wont practice for anything else. Just human nature I guess.

Quote:
Because I really only carry one of the LCP's when I'm engaging in activities in places where I expect a very low risk to exist.
Used to feel that way about my Seecamps. Well, sort of anyway, I actually still didnt like giving up my full size gun, but felt in a couple of those rare occasions I did, it would be inappropriate for the occasion.

These days, a Glock 26 with a spare 17 reload, takes the place of the Seecamps, and carried with the same ease, and in the very same place, so I dont feel Im giving up as much. I almost have the best of all worlds. Still prefer that full size, in its normal spot though. Regularly shooting both, from where they are normally carried, makes it blatantly obvious, if theres an order, which is the better choice.


Im not sure if there is really any place that is truly, "low risk". Maybe the appearance or feel of "lower risk", but I think its generally true, anything can happen anywhere, at any time. From past experiences, it always seemed to me, that when things seem to be going to good, or feeling to comfortable, something was about to change. Then again, maybe it was just paranoia (which has proven not to be a bad thing either).

Quote:
I'll also offer that spending some time learning to run the smaller guns well may pay a dividend of learning to improve their overall skillset, and might improve their abilities with their larger guns.

Then, there are the occasional above average-to-superior shooters who are willing to take the time to learn and master the requirements of shooting the little guns well.
No doubt.

Ive never understood the "specialization" mentality you so often hear either. The old "beware the man with one gun thing" BS.

You only get to be good, or better, by constant practice, that push your boundaries. You also learn and/or reinforce why certain things are a better choice.

Quote:
I also consider the .38 Spl snub revolver to be a bit higher on the ranking of personal defensive weapons than the .380 ACP.
For me, it depends on the gun. Things like my SIG P230, or Glock 42's, surpass my 642's. Obviously, the 642's trump the LCP's and Seecamps, etc, especially as the distances open up.

Then again, that old 26 bumps them all farther down the list too. Basically 642 size, with equal or better power, more capacity, as well as better sights and shootability.

Quote:
Handguns are all a compromise.

Some more than others.
Yup. No doubt here too.

This is where "gear" can help a lot with your compromise choices. I find the Smart Carry holsters, make so called impossibilities, very much possible.
AK103K is offline  
Old September 5, 2015, 02:11 PM   #77
fastbolt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,832
If I could slip one of my pair of G26's, or G27, 3913, CS9 or CS45, etc, into the same front pockets as I can my J-frames, I'd carry them instead of the J's. I can do so in the colder weather when I'm wearing some jackets with larger pockets, but aside from some of my deep-pocket cargo shorts, the jeans & slacks I like to wear won't conceal the thick paperback profile of the pistols.

I've never acclimated to feeling comfortable while essentially wearing a jock-strap type or AIWB holster, either.

So many years of wearing leather duty rigs and an assortment of heavy and/or large handguns (and magazine carriers) has taken its toll on some of the pressure points around my ilium, gluteal muscles & such, too. Doesn't take much for those long developed hot spots to react to pressure and generate referred pain, including down to one or another of my knees.

Some of my high-end leather belt scabbards and paddles can help mitigate some of the discomfort, but I'm glad I'm no longer having to wear them every day for 10-16 hours at a time in my former plainclothes assignment.

So, nowadays, unless I'm going to be running out & about in some higher risk areas and conditions, my choice of pocket holster carry weapons works better for my overall needs. My training has been tweaked to keep the skillsets active with the smaller guns, too. I include shooting the smaller guns more than anyone else I know, even many of the firearms trainers with whom I still work.

Having had a badge/ID card for more than 30 years, and having been involved in my pursuit of the martial arts for 44 years (this month, as a matter of fact), I've come to accept that even experienced risk assessment only goes so far.

On the other hand, I'm disinclined to let paranoia take the place of prudence and some small experience in such matters when it comes to preparing to step outside the door of our home in the coastal hills.

Yes, violence may arrive or surface anywhere, at anytime ... but the world's never exactly been a "safe" place, and some risk is always going to be present.

One of the reasons I still work to maintain my pursuit of the martial arts.

It took some work to recover from the effects of surgery & chemo back in 2010, and fighting the inevitable effects of aging is a delaying tactic that takes continual work. A good friend of mine, Hany Rambod, has helped me quite a bit when it comes to working to try and keep the decline of aging at bay, to the extent possible, with modern nutrition and exercise methods, although I'm obviously not like his young athletes and Olympia winners.

Life is an interesting and puzzling journey, and it's not always about "guns".
__________________
Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer
fastbolt is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 07:41 AM   #78
Tamara
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 15,982
I carry a full-size duty auto every day, but I can dress like a hobo, and so that makes it easy. I know guys who carry AIWB and manage Government Models, P30s, G17s and the like in business casual.

But most people, even people who are serious about carrying, carry a pocket-size gun or a J-frame, and should be encouraged to continue doing so. Unless you're getting jacked for your high dollar art collection or by jewel thieves at your job in the diamond warehouse, then the typical criminal wants an easy cash transaction and not a gun stuck in their face. Statistically speaking, probably three-quarters of typical CCW scenarios could be solved with a realistic-looking airsoft pistol. (Heck, statistically speaking, most of us don't need to be carrying anyway, but it's not the odds, it's the stakes, right?)

What disturbs me is the number of people posturing as tactically aware, switched-on individuals in this thread who don't seem to have done much if any formal firearms training (at least outside their local police agency or NRA instructor) and then talk about the different guns they carry "Like, maybe one day it's this and another day it's that, but I won't go smaller than my 19..."

Are these guns? Or fashion accessories to match your shoes? You shouldn't have a weekday gun, a Sunday gun, a barbecue gun, a retro gun for when you're watching Miami Vice... you should just have a gun, carried in the same place, that you know how to use. And most importantly, the use of which is ingrained enough such that basic pistol operation doesn't take all of your conscious thought, because you're going to need that for other stuff.
__________________
MOLON LABE!
2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium.
The Arms Room: An Online Museum.
Tamara is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 12:43 PM   #79
fastbolt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,832
Quote:
Are these guns? Or fashion accessories to match your shoes? You shouldn't have a weekday gun, a Sunday gun, a barbecue gun, a retro gun for when you're watching Miami Vice... you should just have a gun, carried in the same place, that you know how to use. And most importantly, the use of which is ingrained enough such that basic pistol operation doesn't take all of your conscious thought, because you're going to need that for other stuff.
Good points. No kidding.

However, there are always going to be those folks, cops and private citizens alike, who seem to like to bring a duffle bag of guns to a range training or qual session. Some choose guns of a similar design (just assorted models/calibers), which is easier when it comes to learning to use them, but some have guns of a variety of makes/models & calibers.

Yep, some folks have problems when trying to use different guns, and seem to require a "warm up" in order to remember the requirements of using different designs. Bummer, as they probably aren't going to have that sort of time/opportunity off the range.

Some seem to have worked hard and invested the requisite time needed to instantly pick up and be able to actually use their chosen assortments. Something like pattern recognition occurs when they grasp their assorted guns. Kind of like staying practiced with being able to ride a motorcycle, and also drive cars or trucks with both manual and auto transmissions, right? Gotta stay current and practiced.

I have too many guns nowadays.

If I hadn't been working as a LE firearms instructor for 25 years, working with folks carrying revolvers and an assortment of makes/models of pistols, and hadn't had the opportunity to have bought so many guns at reduced armorer prices after all of my armorer classes ... my gun safe wouldn't be so stuffed.

Before I was an instructor it was easy. I was a revolver and 1911 shooter/user.

Then I had to acclimate to using an issued S&W 3rd gen TDA, and that required a blending of my revolver & SA pistols skills. Then, the increasing popularity of the seemingly ever-expanding number of plastic pistols required another accommodation. (And more opportunities to buy bargain-priced guns after more armorer classes.)

All of my pistols get trigger time when working as an instructor. (Free ammo helps. ) It also helps to remain familiar with the various duty guns being carried by our folks, too, as they can carry the issued make/model (in 3 calibers), or can choose from 3 other brands (in the same 3 calibers) if they want to purchase it themselves. Gotta be able to shoot what everyone uses, especially if you expect to be able to help train them.

I still like the simplicity of the J-frames, though (revolver days), and now the little LCP has become handy for its single strike DAO operation.

You're observation about the ability to have thoroughly ingrained familiarity and manipulative skills, that occur without having to stop and think about it, is right on.

Kind of like being able to subconsciously draw upon the correct move, or evolving flow of moves, in a defensive tactics/self defense situation. Having to stop and think about it at each step of the way isn't usually an advantage.
__________________
Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer
fastbolt is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 12:58 PM   #80
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,249
Quote:
I know guys who carry AIWB and manage Government Models, P30s, G17s and the like in business casual.
That's exactly how I get away with carrying full sized. Awesome method.

Quote:
What disturbs me is the number of people posturing as tactically aware, switched-on individuals in this thread who don't seem to have done much if any formal firearms training (at least outside their local police agency or NRA instructor) and then talk about the different guns they carry "Like, maybe one day it's this and another day it's that, but I won't go smaller than my 19..."
Did your crystal ball tell you their level of training? Or are you referring to a certain someone?


Quote:
Are these guns? Or fashion accessories to match your shoes? You shouldn't have a weekday gun, a Sunday gun, a barbecue gun, a retro gun for when you're watching Miami Vice... you should just have a gun, carried in the same place, that you know how to use. And most importantly, the use of which is ingrained enough such that basic pistol operation doesn't take all of your conscious thought, because you're going to need that for other stuff.
People shouldn't switch their guns around too much. Yes.. But sometimes a back up may have a different trigger mechanism. So what if it does? Doesn't hinder the use of the primary or any other.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with someone switching out their gun once a blue moon and then going back to their primary.

Hell, I used the P226 as a work gun at shops for years. Then the 19 for concealed carry.

Many officers do the same thing. Glock 17 or 22 on duty. A 19, 23, 26, or 27. Some go to an LCP or LC9 or a 5 shot revolver.

Are they making "fashion statements"?

Our military swaps out their weapons depending on the mission.

Our local SWAT teams as well.

Are those all fashion statements?

Sorry, your way of thinking is severely flawed. Just because your skill set is handicapped and limited to just 1 firearm and most professionals aren't, doesn't mean you need to be bitter towards anyone else.


What is your background anyways?
__________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 01:39 PM   #81
cew
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2015
Posts: 1
Always

I live in central Florida where it seem to always be hot. I carry a G26 when printing is an issue, but more often it's going to either my sig 226, Beretta 92FS or Springfield XDM 45. I prefer a larger capacity or higher caliber than the G26 offers and like Constantine I always carry, never leave home without it.

One story that I'll never forget and I'm sure many of you will also remember.
Years ago in Texas a crazy guy goes in a restaurant and kill a lot of innocent people include the elderly parents of a women who happened to have a CCL.
I never will forgot what this woman said or what it must have felt like. She said that as the shooter was going around the restaurant shooting people she felt like kicking herself for leaving her gun in the car. She suffered a terrible loss that day and although the chances that something like happening to me are remote. That thought has never left me.

Last edited by cew; September 6, 2015 at 02:03 PM.
cew is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 01:40 PM   #82
fastbolt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,832
Dude, relax.

Unless someone new has taken to using Tamara's name, she's been around quite a while. She's not being bitter and her thinking isn't flawed, either.
__________________
Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer
fastbolt is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 01:49 PM   #83
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by cew View Post
I live in central Florida where it seem to always be hot. I carry a G26 when printing is an issue, but more often it's going to either my sig 226, Beretta 92FS or Springfield XDM 45. I prefer a larger capacity or higher caliber than the G26 offers and like Constantine I always carry, never leave home without it.
Nice. I never got into the 92FS because of the P226.

Amen to the heat. Also why I carry a 19 most days. It takes the salt spray, sweat, and rain much better. All of which can happen in one day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
Dude, relax.

Unless someone new has taken to using Tamara's name, she's been around quite a while. She's not being bitter and her thinking isn't flawed, either.
Lol, that's good for her. To me it is flawed. To you it's not. Just differing opinions.

I also didn't see a need for her excess attempts either.
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 04:52 PM   #84
Tamara
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 15,982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine
Did your crystal ball tell you their level of training? Or are you referring to a certain someone?
Dude, a little sensitive? Well, they say that it's the hit dog that yelps, so okay...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine
Many officers do the same thing.
So? You say that like it's some sort of endorsement. Most officers don't even much like to shoot and have to be persuaded to carry guns off duty. The ones you find on firearms fora or at gun school on their own dime are the exceptions that prove the rule. In some big city departments they risk getting called "Tackleberry" or maybe not even hired for liking guns as a hobby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine
Are they making "fashion statements"?
Yes, and not the ones they think they are, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine
Sorry, your way of thinking is severely flawed. Just because your skill set is handicapped and limited to just 1 firearm...
Here, I'll slap my training resume down on the counter:



Your turn.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg gun school.jpg (162.2 KB, 344 views)
__________________
MOLON LABE!
2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium.
The Arms Room: An Online Museum.
Tamara is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 04:56 PM   #85
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,249
All that flexing and you STILL have that mindset? The one I still find to be flawed.

Mas is awesome.
Todd Jarret too.

Don't know the rest. Anyways, good. I applaud you.

Still don't like your way of thinking regardless.
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 05:22 PM   #86
OldMarksman
Staff
 
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 3,854
I agree with the same gun/same place routine.

I can "manage" a number of different firearms competently, but when my "mission" is to have the best chance of defending myself in the event of an unexpected and tumultuous violent criminal action, I want to rely on the same equipment each and every time.

That means the same primary weapon in the same holster, which means the same presentation, grip, balance, sight picture, trigger, and malfunction clearing steps.

It also means that for back-up, the same back-up weapon in the same place.
OldMarksman is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 05:24 PM   #87
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMarksman View Post
I agree with the same gun/same place routine.

I can "manage" a number of different firearms competently, but when my "mission" is to have the best chance of defending myself in the event of an unexpected and tumultuous violent criminal action, I want to rely on the same equipment each and every time.

That means the same primary weapon in the same holster, which means the same presentation, grip, balance, sight picture, trigger, and malfunction clearing steps.

It also means that for back-up, the same back-up weapon in the same place.
Agreed. Didn't say that that wasn't the way to do it. That's the best way to do it.
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 05:33 PM   #88
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,249
Cool stuff. I just got off a boat. And I had to carry my Glock instead of my SIG. Isn't that crazy?

If I go hunting, back when I used to hunt. I'd take my Glock 41 instead of my Glock 19. Insane.


But really. It's reassuring to know most criminals aren't gun enthusiasts.
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 06:06 PM   #89
Tamara
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 15,982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine
If I go hunting, back when I used to hunt. I'd take my Glock 41...
"Back when you used to hunt"? The G41's been on the market barely more than a year. So... 'wayyy back in the olden times, last year, you used to carry your G41 hunting. And when you were on a boat, you "had to" carry your G-lock instead of your P-226, which, in its Mk.25 guise, has gone OTB for decades?

You need to slow your roll, friend.
__________________
MOLON LABE!
2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium.
The Arms Room: An Online Museum.
Tamara is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 06:09 PM   #90
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,249
Before it was a P220 lol. Last time I went it was. 41.. don't look so into it. You're going to get a headache.

I love my P226. I think the MK25 has the 1913 rail. Totally different. This is a standard P226.

I stopped hunting. Don't do it anymore. Nothing wrong with that either.
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old September 6, 2015, 11:42 PM   #91
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,823
...

Last edited by armoredman; September 7, 2015 at 11:07 PM.
armoredman is offline  
Old September 7, 2015, 01:14 AM   #92
Tamara
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 15,982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine
Before it was a P220 lol. Last time I went it was. 41.. don't look so into it. You're going to get a headache.
Not likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine
I love my P226.
I love my family, my friends, and my cat. My gun's just a tool I carry in case the unfortunate necessity for fool-shooting should arise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine
I think the MK25 has the 1913 rail. Totally different. This is a standard P226.
Current NSW P-226s have rails. Older NSW P-226s did not. Either way, NSW has been carrying 226s OTB for several decades now. Don't see what a Pic rail has to do with corrosion resistance, or why the lack of one would mean you "had to" carry a Glock instead of a Sig Sauer on the boat (or why you had to switch back from the Glock to the Sig when you went ashore again.)

So no, no headaches here, just wry amusement at the way you got all up in people's grilles for not living up to your standards of tacticality for four pages.

Be safe, Constantine.
__________________
MOLON LABE!
2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium.
The Arms Room: An Online Museum.
Tamara is offline  
Old September 7, 2015, 08:55 AM   #93
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 6,141
Given that someone has stated that a few carry only a small gun because they expect a self-defense event to be "up close," what is the defined distance at which a self-defense shooting could occur? That is, if there is a defined distance.

At the indoor range I haunt, 25 yards is the greatest distance, assuming you're just shooting at your own target. Twenty-five yards is the distance from our easily broken basement door to the path into the woods. The distance from where I sit to the closest door is about five yards. At which distance am I most likely to engage a bad guy? Can one be in danger from 25 yards away to the extent that you would start shooting? (I also ask that in connection with wild animals but that's a different topic).

Some of the scenarios are sometimes a little far-fetched in regards to responses. Let's say you're strolling through a crowded mall and someone twenty-five yards away decides to attack you, for reasons unknown. He isn't going to make a frontal rush, probably having to push people out of the way to do so. He'll sneak up behind you. Even if he is within five yards right in front, he'll have the drop on you. So in public (for those who are not law enforcement officers), whatever is going to happen is going to happen not far beyond arms length.

Given that assumption, which at least applies to some situations, how difficult is it going to be making hits, assuming you can even get off a shot?

Personally, I don't find smaller guns to be generally more difficult to shoot. Some certainly are, depending on which guns you think of. Colt's old .380 Government Model was as easy to shoot as a .22, as an example. But I suspect there is an optimum size and caliber for each situation and each individual. I'm glad we have choices.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old September 7, 2015, 09:15 AM   #94
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,645
I understand the value of consistency - having everything in the place expected and working as expected keeps you from having to stop and think about anything under the stress of an emergency.

But the one-gun-one-holster argument has its limits; in my life, that limit regards dress. I can carry a pistol IWB strong side in most situations, but "most" is not a synonym for "all." When I need to wear a tuxedo, as happens a few times a year, am I better off changing pistols and/or holsters or going unarmed? Or does the fact that I wear a tux occasionally mean that I should always pocket carry a pistol of less capacity and caliber than I currently do on the other 360 or so days?

Just to be clear, I am satisfied with my own answers to these questions; I present them rhetorically to argue against absolutism in favor at least a little flexibility.
TailGator is offline  
Old September 7, 2015, 09:24 AM   #95
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,249
Deleted for personal attacks and insults.
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old September 7, 2015, 09:30 AM   #96
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by TailGator View Post
I understand the value of consistency - having everything in the place expected and working as expected keeps you from having to stop and think about anything under the stress of an emergency.

But the one-gun-one-holster argument has its limits; in my life, that limit regards dress. I can carry a pistol IWB strong side in most situations, but "most" is not a synonym for "all." When I need to wear a tuxedo, as happens a few times a year, am I better off changing pistols and/or holsters or going unarmed? Or does the fact that I wear a tux occasionally mean that I should always pocket carry a pistol of less capacity and caliber than I currently do on the other 360 or so days?

Just to be clear, I am satisfied with my own answers to these questions; I present them rhetorically to argue against absolutism in favor at least a little flexibility.
Which is another point people are missing when they angrily skim through the red to be a white knight.

As long as you're carrying your gun, period. Even if it's not my opinion of an adequate concealed duty gun. It's better than nothing! So good.

I also agree that the one holster one gun has its limits. When I go running it's different. To the mall it's different. It can switch up sometimes. There's nothing wrong with that either. I have a lot of rounds through the guns I carry religiously. My muscle memory is tuned to Glock and SIG Sauer.

I tried a 1911 once in a class and didn't like how I was struggling so hard I ran home and got my SIG instead. The safeties got to me a few times. So I know MY weapons and they're aqequate enough to MY standards.
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old September 7, 2015, 11:09 AM   #97
OldMarksman
Staff
 
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 3,854
Quote:
I love my guns and my friends are my family. .... I love SIG Sauer so much more
Loving one's guns?

Must be a matter of definition.

If I thought I loved a gun, I don't think I would say so.

Quote:
I await more pointless remarks.
There sure have ben a few. I can do without more.

Quote:
Lol, clearly you got over emotional and skimmed like crazy.
I didn't take it that way.
OldMarksman is offline  
Old September 7, 2015, 11:44 AM   #98
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,945
Quote:
That means the same primary weapon in the same holster, which means the same presentation, grip, balance, sight picture, trigger, and malfunction clearing steps.

It also means that for back-up, the same back-up weapon in the same place.
I agree with this line of thinking. Same stuff, in the same place, along with constant practice. Things need to be practiced to the point of "thoughtless", if youre serious about things. When you "think" GUN, it should just appear in your hands, and with no thought as to how it got there.

The last thing you really need, it to look like youre patting yourself down, looking for where you put the gun today, and then trying to figure out what it is, when you finally find it.


Im not saying to limit yourself in your experiences here though. Being familiar with as many types/platforms is a good thing, and if possible, should also be practiced. You never know when you might have to pick something up and use it. A lot of this just comes from the normal progression of finding what it is you want too. Every new type of gun is a learning experience, be it a positive one or not so much. Its easy enough, to have one of each "type", to occasionally practice with to stay familiar with them.

Quote:
Some of the scenarios are sometimes a little far-fetched in regards to responses. Let's say you're strolling through a crowded mall and someone twenty-five yards away decides to attack you, for reasons unknown. He isn't going to make a frontal rush, probably having to push people out of the way to do so. He'll sneak up behind you. Even if he is within five yards right in front, he'll have the drop on you. So in public (for those who are not law enforcement officers), whatever is going to happen is going to happen not far beyond arms length.
I think most scenarios people have, are what they feel comfortable with winning, and justify what their weapon choices are, at least in their minds eye. Reality is, you get to deal with whatever it is youre dealt, and if youre not well rounded in your training/practice, then youre going to be stuck with trying to get that square peg into a moving round hole. If youve convinced yourself all you need is a third line back up gun for daily carry, then it only gets worse.

The mall thing above, was actually in the news in the not so distant past, and with the current world situation, could easily be here at any given moment. Its really not all that far fetched. Of course, most Americans probably cant wrap their heads around it actually happening here. Then again, theres always the movies or schools.

As for the distances involved, I have to wonder sometimes, if people even know what they are looking at in their real world environments. Practice always seems to be done at certain "fixed" ranges, and in the same way, and at the same, often unrealistic targets. There is no realistic perspective.

Next time youre out and about, pace some things off in the places you visit, and other than contact distances, I think youll be amazed at how far a shot youre really looking at in most cases. Aisles in our local market are close to 50 yards, from one end to another, and across the front of the local Walmart, its over 80 yards.

If all you practice is at 7 yards, and you think you have it covered, you may want to think it over some more. Being able to make decent hits at 50, or even 100 yards with a handgun, really isnt all that hard, but does require some practice. If you dont practice those type shots, what do you think Murphy will throw your way when your turn happens to come?

Quote:
But the one-gun-one-holster argument has its limits; in my life, that limit regards dress. I can carry a pistol IWB strong side in most situations, but "most" is not a synonym for "all." When I need to wear a tuxedo, as happens a few times a year, am I better off changing pistols and/or holsters or going unarmed? Or does the fact that I wear a tux occasionally mean that I should always pocket carry a pistol of less capacity and caliber than I currently do on the other 360 or so days?
You can alleviate things here, if you carry a back up that is the same platform as your full size gun.

A 26 in a Smart Carry, can be in the same place as a 17 that is normally carried (just a little deeper), and you really havent changed much. Truth be told, depending on the pants youre wearing, and your physical/body shape, it could easily be the same 17 in that Smart Carry.
AK103K is offline  
Old September 7, 2015, 12:00 PM   #99
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,249
Yeah ^ Glock really has a sweet setup when it comes to that.

Glock 17 & 26, 22 & 27, 21 & 30/30S.. Etc. Really awesome. I think that's one of the most difficult setups to beat.
__________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old September 7, 2015, 12:19 PM   #100
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,249
This is a pretty good read.

More research on criminals who carry guns


Just some statistics and such

They're both slightly outdated.
__________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11590 seconds with 9 queries