7.62 Tokarev Hollow point idea

[xMINORxTHREATx]

So I just had a random thought.

There are some slim pickings for 7.62 ammo, especially hollowpoint ammo.

So while daydreaming at work, I thought about taking a Dremel tool to some spam can surplus ammo. Cutting the very tip of it off to give it a flat nose, then take a small drill to it to hollow out the tip.

I plan on trying this out against some ballistics gel just for fun.

Any body wanna venture a guess as to what will happen?

My prediction, after tinkering with it for about 50 rounds I will get it to work right. But those 50 rounds should be interested.

Failure is ALWAYS an option.

[GoOfY-FoOt]

I would score the tip with a cross hatch, also...

[xMINORxTHREATx]

I'm having a lot of random thoughts just to experiment. Like making a deep cut in the bullet, almost like I was cutting it in half from the tip to the base, just to see if it would split in half when it tries to mushroom on impact.

[Jim Watson]

There are many warnings against cutting the nose of a FMJ. There is risk of shooting the core out of the jacket, leaving the jacket in the barrel, and bulging the barrel on the next shot.

FMJs are thickest at the nose and it will take a lot of cutting to get one to expand.

If you just must, shoot slowly and check the barrel if there is the least thing unusual.

[frumious]

Hmmm...I have had a similar thought for .308 ammo. The gun range I go to does not allow FMJ on the rifle range. FMJ is the cheapest factory ammo I can get my hands on. I wonder if I could just take a dremel and cut the tip off of each bullet of some cheap ammo and use it as "hollow points". I wouldn't bother to drill them.

EDIT - just saw the response above...maybe this is not a good idea. Well, maybe it is REALLY not a good idea

-cls

[xMINORxTHREATx]

I was only going to shoot one round at a time, but thanks for the heads up. I will check the barrel before each shot.

I used to mess around with lead pellets out of my pellet rifle as a kid. I would take the rounded ones and try to turn them into hollow points then shoot them into a 5 gallon bucket full of water, and see if they mushroomed. They never did. lol

I'm just taking this childhood quest for knowledge to the next step. And yes I know I could just read about it. But give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to make hollow points out of surplus Russian ammo... lol

[Ideal Tool]

If you get a chance..read Phil Sharps "Complete Guide To Handloading". This was re-printed number of years ago by Wolfe publishing. After WW2, alot of returning GI's wanted to go hunting, but after the war, production wasn't up and running on sporting ammo. They did what you suggested..either drilled, or cut nose off FMJ .30-06. Blew up alot of guns when that core squirted out & left jacket in bore.

[ballardw]

Hornady makes a semi-jacketed soft-point, 86 grains in .308 that would probably be a better start for hollow-pointing.

Or size some HP 32 ACP bullets.

[red caddy]

I've been working on a good defense load for my CZ-52. The last bunch I loaded, of the 86 Gr Hornady, I ran half of them thru my Forster hollow pointer. The loaded round weighed ~ 173 Gr. I drilled a hollow point cavity that, with the exposed lead trimmed back to the jacket, weighed 163 Gr.

In effect, I created a 76 Gr. hollowpoint bullet.

You guy's are cordially invited to post your best guess as to velocity increase and expansion. (water filled plastic milk jugs)

I'm going to the range Monday (my shooting buddies refer to this as the "James Earl Ray memorial shoot" ) and will post the results.

Let the games begin.

Paul

[red caddy]

Okay, I guess nobody wanted to play...


I tested various loads and bullet configurations on water filled, 1 gallon milk jugs from ~ 8 feet.
Here's what I learned about the hollow point in a CZ:


The un modified Seirra 85 Gr. "sportking", with 13.5 Gr. of H-110, average MV 1548 FPS, penatrated 3 jugs and stopped ~ 6 inches into the dirt backstop. slight mushrooming of the tip.

The modified,hollow pointed, 75 Gr Seirra, with 13.5 Gr. H110, average MV 1550 FPS, exploded in the first jug. full jacket separation and lead fragmentation, pieces of lead and jacket found in 2nd jug. (Absolutely shredded the first jug)

85 Gr Hornady with canalure, 13.5 Gr. AA9, ave. MV 1660 FPS, stopped in 3rd jug, fully mushroomed, almost to the canelure. retained weight 83 Gr. ~.650" diameter. This one hits HARD.

Conclusions:

The unmodified "sportking", @ 1540 FPS, will almost certainly shoot through a human, with enough retained energy to punch threw an interior wall on the far side, or another body. (I want to test this load on a live hog, but I suspect it will go thru and thru, even hitting bone)

The modified "sportking" is very frangible, ALL energy is transferred, with minimal penetration (4-8 inches). Not the load I would use on something I want to eat, lots of tiny splinters of lead and jacket material. A lightly clothed Zombie, hit COM, is certainly DRT. I'll retest this configuration with several layers of heavy cloth in front of the jugs, to simulate heavy jacket or coat. An interesting side note: no difference in 50 yard accuracy was noted, still easily "minuet of pop can" @ 50 Yds. (2 inches)

The 85 gr. Hornady soft point, @1600 FPS, will easily shoot threw a human, but likely create a very large wound channel and, perhaps, not penetrate another human or an interior wall on the far side. (but it's gonna leave a mark.) This would very likely make a good hunting/varmint load, for use under a hundred yards. (yep, with a pistol) I want to test this load on a car body and balistic cloth. Might be very useful for urban/social work.


The next round of tests will be done with the 85 Gr. Hornady, with both deep and shallow hollow point, at several lower muzzle velocities. This bullet seems to have a stronger/ heavier jacket that retains the lead core better than the Sierra, under expansion. A drilled hollowpoint cavity might start the expansion sooner, reducing the penetration, at a lower velocity, without losing the expansion. The goal being, ~10 inches of penatration with double diameter expansion.

I know that water filled jugs arn't going to give "real world" performance data, but I can't afford to play with balistics gel just now. If anybody does have access, I'll gladly provide some test ammo.

Furthur testing will be needed with the PPS-43, 10 inch and 16 inch barrels...Wait for it.

Paul

Edit, PS, I opened a spam can of polish millsurp today and pulled a bullet for examination. The jacket is STEEL, heavily brass plated, (.003-.004") the lead is exposed at the base and swedged concave, similar to a HBWC. I would definatly NOT recommend cutting the nose off this stuff and firing it. You have been warned...

[Clark]

I have lots of CZ52s and Tokarevs, and a few rifles in that cartridge.

The best path for self defense is to get a different barrel and shoot 9x23mm with 158 gr XTP.

The original Tokarev round is best for groups at 100 yards, but closer in destruction is best done with 9x23mm.

[Tortuga12]

Wolf makes a JHP round that performs pretty well. Check out brassfetcher.

[res45]

Actually it's made by Prvi Partizan who make Wolf's Gold Line pistol ammo. If you want to have some fun load a sabot in the X25 case and use the Hornady 218B 46 gr. HP.

[spclPatrolGroup]

Please list time and the range where you will be testing your modified bullets, I want to make sure I am far away.