The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 29, 2017, 12:37 PM   #1
Senior Member
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 2,192
The will to win

I have this in my gym at my house. I was looking at it today and thought, you know what, it applies much more to defense then it does to sports so I thought I would leave it here.

"It's not the will to win that matters...everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters." - Paul "Bear" Bryant
Lohman446 is offline  
Old March 29, 2017, 12:51 PM   #2
Senior Member
Join Date: January 3, 2017
Posts: 1,583
You only lose when you give up.
It doesn't matter how many times you fall - only how many times you get up.
Winners never quit.

There are lots of platitudes that have the same message and there are many accounts of people who survive even when they do stupid things that should prevent survival just because they kept going. People who walk across deserts by walking during the day and sleep freezing at night and survive. People who walk out of snow covered wilderness without provisions instead of building shelter and staying put survive in spite of their mistakes. People lost at sea who are not prepared, drink sea water and still manage to survive. The only thing these people have in common with others is that they never gave up.
ShootistPRS is offline  
Old March 29, 2017, 01:50 PM   #3
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 4,453
Vince Lombardi folks. Vince Lombardi. He is the man on winning.

Winners never quit, quitters never win!

The Will To Win

“Winning is not a sometime thing; it’s an all the time thing. You don’t win
once in a while; you don’t do things right once in a while; you do them
right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my game, and
that’s first place. I have finished second twice in my time at Green Bay,
and I don’t ever want to finish second again. There is a second place bowl
game, but it is a game for losers played by losers. It is and always has
been an American zeal to be first in anything we do, and to win, and to win,
and to win.

Every time a football player goes to ply his trade he’s got to play from the
ground up – from the soles of his feet right up to his head. Every inch of
him has to play. Some guys play with their heads. That’s O.K. You’ve got to
be smart to be number one in any business.

But more importantly, you’ve got to play with your heart, with every fiber of
your body. If you’re lucky enough to find a guy with a lot of head and a lot
of heart, he’s never going to come off the field second.

Running a football team is no different than running any other kind of
organization – an army, a political party or a business. The principles are
the same. The object is to win – to beat the other guy. Maybe that sounds
hard or cruel. I don’t think it is.

It is a reality of life that men are competitive and the most competitive
games draw the most competitive men. That’s why they are there – to compete.

To know the rules and objectives when they get in the game. The object is to
win fairly, squarely, by the rules – but to win.

And in truth, I’ve never known a man worth his salt who in the long run,
deep down in his heart, didn’t appreciate the grind, the discipline. There
is something in good men that really yearns for discipline and the harsh
reality of head to head combat.

I don’t say these things because I believe in the “brute” nature of man or
that men must be brutalized to be combative. I believe in God, and I believe
in human decency. But I firmly believe that any man’s finest hour, the
greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has
worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of
battle – victorious.”

“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

Last edited by Deaf Smith; March 29, 2017 at 01:59 PM.
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old March 29, 2017, 02:46 PM   #4
Senior Member
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 1,850
Lohman I completely agree. It is in the preparation where we test ourselves and learn what we need to survive. Most of us don't have the discipline to do the work.

Shootist, Lohman's quote is not a simple cliche pretending to be profound, and therefore is not a platitude. There will always be examples those who survive in spite of themselves. That is not an endorsement for not preparing properly for the job at hand. For every one of them, there are countless others who because of their lack of preparation do not survive in spite of their commitment.

Deaf there are areas of life where winning is not the most important outcome in my opinion. A gunfight is probably not one of them though.
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin
K_Mac is offline  
Old March 29, 2017, 03:08 PM   #5
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,289
The will to win is VERY important. Yes, it is important to prepare. Proper prep VASTLY increases your chance of winning and survival. But never giving up while in the moment is equally important.

I saw an interview of a cop who was ambushed by a burglary suspect while searching for him behind a business. There had been a good time lapse since the guy had last been seen (10 minutes or so), so the cop was really just looking for evidence of direction of travel and to see if any of the stolen items had been dropped. The guy attacked the cop, struggled hand to hand for a moment, then shot the Officer in the jaw twice. The officer stumbled backward and fell into a shallow pit. The suspect walks to the edge and starts shooting at him. The cop draws his weapon and ends the fight with three shots (chest, neck, then head) on the suspect. The cop wasn't a donut muncher, he was a guy who ran 3-5 miles at least 4 times a week and boxed in his off time.

I tried to look it up, but couldn't find it. My description doesn't do it justice. To hear the guy tell the story... he was very casual about it. He describes being in a tussle and stumbling back and landing in the pit. At first he thought the guy landed a really good punch. He then vividly described the suspect walking to the edge of the pit, point a pistol at him, and seeing the muzzle flash of the pistol being fired at him. He said during the interview "that's when I realized I had been shot and he was still shooting at me... I thought "I've got something for that -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-" so I drew my gun and fired three times." Weeks in the hospital and major reconstructive surgery. The hinge of his jaw had been blown out. He was very matter of fact about everything.

Talking about not giving up... realizing your jaw was hanging off and there is this dude standing over you still shooting at you. Guy didn't let fear take him over though, and that's why he is still here. That and a little luck. And God wants him here (my personal belief).
5whiskey is offline  
Old March 29, 2017, 04:07 PM   #6
Senior Member
Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,881
Subtle meaning and context probably shifts a bit when considered and pondered upon by different folks.

More important than the will to "win", is the down deep, unequivocal belief that someone can win. The conviction was be firmly ingrained, and justifiably so, within the very foundation of your beliefs.

Preparation designed to better create the opportunity to optimally and effectively act upon that deep seated belief is probably better than just having the will and hoping events will fall your way to let it happen.

Events and circumstances may turn out to prove your belief and conviction insufficient to the demands placed upon you by the world, but your conviction needs to be unshakable, refusing to yield even as circumstances may prove to be beyond your control, going down striving to manifest your belief and conviction with every fiber of your being.

You may not "win", but neither can you be forced to accept defeat.

Yes, having a religious and/or spiritual belief system can be important, but in the end it's the man (or woman) who bears the responsibility for being willing to strive to accomplish.

I once had to give an unexpected, impromptu talk on a subject decided by a roomful of experienced LE firearms instructors. The subject chose for me was basically "warrior mindset and the importance of the ability to instill it" in the cops we trained. Tough crowd, especially since the senior instructor who voiced it as my "topic" was someone who was known to be somewhat "challenging" of people.

I presented the topic in front of the group (classroom setting), and actually ran over the allotted time, but neither the staff hosting the update class nor the rest of the "students" showed any desire to cut it off. Weirdly enough, when I was done I received a loud round of applause, and the guy who had originally picked the topic seemed to applaud the loudest. Hey, to be fair, I suppose that having served as a firearms trainer for 16 years (at that point) probably gave me some talking points to dredge up and string together.

Wish I'd written it down or they'd recorded it.
Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer
fastbolt is offline  
Old March 30, 2017, 01:23 PM   #7
Senior Member
Join Date: December 23, 2009
Posts: 1,473
That's a good quote that reminds me of another quote. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.
shafter is offline  
Old March 31, 2017, 06:05 PM   #8
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 4,453
That's a good quote that reminds me of another quote. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.
“By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.”

― Benjamin Franklin

And it's dang wise. I just wish the young ones would see these things.
Deaf there are areas of life where winning is not the most important outcome in my opinion. A gunfight is probably not one of them though.
K Mac, I agree. But like Bill Jordan said, "there is no second place winner in a gun fight."

Oh, and folks... "Always cheat.... Always win!" As Clint Smith said!

“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old April 1, 2017, 12:44 PM   #9
Senior Member
Join Date: January 3, 2017
Posts: 1,583
I have always found this quote to be most helpful:

“If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.”

― John Steinbeck

I have lost teeth, broke my right arm and my nose, been slashed above my left eye and right knee. I've won some and lost a few fights and now I am just too old and busted up to fight, I'll probably just shoot you.
ShootistPRS is offline  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent:
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.06311 seconds with 10 queries