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Old October 16, 2015, 09:31 PM   #51
johnelmore
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I believe you will be focusing on running and/or fighting rather than holding up your book bag. Actually, you might be throwing the book bag at the attacker. Holding the book bag up over the head? I would focus on either getting out of dodge or mounting an aggressive attack but not holding up my book bag hoping they will just aim for the bag.
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Old October 16, 2015, 09:38 PM   #52
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Ballistic fiberglass is typically used in construction. It might be used in a courthouse, for example. It isn't intended to be worn but it could work. It's rated differently than body armor intended to be worn. A panel might be rated UL752 level 3 which roughly corresponds to an NIJ level 3a armor. A square foot of ballistic fiberglass with this rating would be 4.8 lbs and 7/16" thick. That is heavier, bulkier and more rigid than a Kevlar 3a panel.
Here is the ones I use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Level-3-A-II...UAAOSwiCRUjuyX

I basically wanted it because it is rigid. I wanted a Lev3a plate in front of the 2A Kevlar in my vest. Really did not like the idea of a projectile being stopped but still pushing in two inches in my chest.
I then added a second one for my book bag at work.


I was wrong about the weight it is about 4 pounds. Does not feel like 4 pounds.
If you really want to extend your funds. You can make your own.
I have been reading up on using fiber glass kits from Home Depot.
I may try it out. Make two test one.
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Old October 16, 2015, 10:23 PM   #53
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..and for those of us who cant?

Even if you cant, you still can choose to be your own boss. You just dont have to tell anyone
And you can switch from tinfoil to saran wrap.... If your job requires you to wear body armor and have an armored plated backpack, I would seriously be rethinking my career choice...... just sayin'.............
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Old October 16, 2015, 10:39 PM   #54
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And you can switch from tinfoil to saran wrap.... If your job requires you to wear body armor and have an armored plated backpack, I would seriously be rethinking my career choice...... just sayin'.............
You obviously have one of the very few jobs that they will let you carry.
I seriously dont know of any worth while job were the corporation does not have it written in the company policy forbidding weapons.
They are way too scared of being sued. I suspect there are not very many corporate Lawyers that would recommend carrying fire arms at work.

Much easier for them to morn your loss than to get dragged into court because some thing happened. When your on the clock. Your on their clock representing them. They make the rules.

" require" would be too strong of a statement. The odds of something happening at my work is very low. But not nonexistent. Chances are I get to go through my life and never need it. Same as the gun I carry were I can.
better to have and never need than need and not have.
besides 40 bucks one time is cheap insurance. If they cost 3 or 400 bucks.
Maybe I weigh the risk compared to the cost.
But 40 bucks. sheesh in the back pack.
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Old October 17, 2015, 07:26 AM   #55
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If your job requires you to wear body armor and have an armored plated backpack, I would seriously be rethinking my career choice...... just sayin'.............
I think youre missing the main point here. Schools are supposed to be safe, because they are a gun free zone. Guns are supposed to be banned there, for the most part, and "most" dont have one, except it seems, those who wish to do harm.

So where is it safe? Where can you go, work, play, etc, where you will be guaranteed you'll be safe, and not have to protect yourself? Anyone with a brain, knows thats fantasy land. Anyone with the same brain, understands that no one other than you, will have your best interests at heart, and is ultimately responsible for your own security. If you leave it to others, you see what youre likely to get.

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They are way too scared of being sued. I suspect there are not very many corporate Lawyers that would recommend carrying fire arms at work.

Much easier for them to morn your loss than to get dragged into court because some thing happened. When your on the clock. Your on their clock representing them. They make the rules.
This is precisely why they exist, and precisely why the survivors and their relatives, SHOULD sue them, for not holding up their end. They made the rule, and left you to fend for yourself when trouble came. THEY are responsible for your safety, the moment they require you to disarm. Seems they think otherwise.
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Old October 17, 2015, 03:59 PM   #56
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The armored backpack seems to make sense for a soldier or other similar occupation, but remember, you have to carry that thing. I dont think you need to make an armored panel. Plenty of steel plates and used body armor on Ebay to construct your backpack. However, you might as well be carrying around a bowling ball when you are done. It sounds good until you are the one carrying it. Just dump the thing and make a run for it.
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Old October 17, 2015, 05:39 PM   #57
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You obviously have one of the very few jobs that they will let you carry.
Not at all; County Gov't job, also as a teacher; also working on power plants (DHS rules). Never felt so scared that I wanted body armor or a bulletproof backpack.

Please cite where those backpacks saved folks from a massacre
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Old October 17, 2015, 08:42 PM   #58
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Not at all; County Gov't job, also as a teacher; also working on power plants (DHS rules). Never felt so scared that I wanted body armor or a bulletproof backpack.

Please cite where those backpacks saved folks from a massacre
You realize that as a power worker you are one of the main targets?? You can use the fish school technique if you want. Hope there are enough targets that they wont get to you.
I too work in the power industry and we train all the time on what to do in an event. Mostly it entails who to call, when to call. When and how to barricade,Were the rally points are. Who is the responsible event leader. ect and added cameras.( I am looking at a wall of 26 of them right now)they have added a slew of locked doors every were to try to corral the shooters.
Should have seen last summer when we had a stranger walking around our operations center. Created quite the commotion. He was just looking for the business office.
Point is, If companies are taking it seriously enough that they are implementing new policies to try to mitigate the risk( no armed guards and I cant be armed). We should too on a personal level with in the rules.

For our schools that we know have already been targeted on multiple occasions. They added a sign.

Cant site any examples as yet. They are too new to the space. Plus you would have to factor in people who are aware of their safety. Might get the willies and move before hand.
I have my plate in my back pack. I know its there when I pick it up and I know why. I look around with out even knowing it.
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Old October 17, 2015, 09:51 PM   #59
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. If you want to worry about every possible what if scenario, then maybe barricading yourself in your home is the best choice for you.
That's somewhat of an acerbic reply. The real issue at hand is that our society has degenerated to a level where these type of things are a very real (if relatively remote) possibility. The only thing we worried about when I was in school is the "duck and cover" in case of a nuclear explosion, or evacuation in case of fire. ("Fire drills" LOL.)

I know that today's society is NOT the world I grew up in, and I can't even begin to point the finger of blame at what caused it or when it started to go downhill.

Unfortunately, some posts on this forum leave me with the impression that some of the posters are living in Dodge City. Others leave me with the impression that they are looking for an excuse to kill someone, but want to be really "cool" about it, making sure they have the latest gun with the latest useless accessories, and the latest "tactical" skills, etc. That mentality is one thing that really concerns me.

FITASC don't make light or be caustic about the situation. Our society is going downhill rapidly, and I don't see it getting any better.
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Old October 18, 2015, 07:05 AM   #60
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The only thing we worried about when I was in school is the "duck and cover" in case of a nuclear explosion, or evacuation in case of fire. ("Fire drills" LOL.)
Same here.

Funny thing too, as many of the cars and trucks out in the schools parking lot, had rifles and shotguns in them, and schools still had competitive rifle teams. The thought of whats been going on these days, was really never in anyones mind.

When it did occur in 66, the brain washing we have today wasnt in place, and 911 didnt exist. People were more self reliant, and did something themselves. What went on in Texas with the tower shooter, is an example. Its also the first of these types of events. Totally different responses, then and now.

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I know that today's society is NOT the world I grew up in, and I can't even begin to point the finger of blame at what caused it or when it started to go downhill.
GCA 68 getting passed stands out for me as the start. Really noticed things accelerating in the 80's, when our kids were in school. By the early 90's, the craziness was really in place. Of course, the results of social engineering isnt the cause/fault, its the guns.
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Old October 19, 2015, 10:29 AM   #61
Glenn E. Meyer
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Ok - we have wandered off into political/philosophical blather.

There's one chance to return to the specific discussion of the utility of the pack. Or else we are done and those that continue will get detention.
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Old October 19, 2015, 12:41 PM   #62
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I bet wearing a $6 mouthguard while in the car is more likely to reduce ones chance of serious injury than a $300 bullet resistant bag.

Soft armor also has massive problems with folding. I have to imagine it would be worse in a backpack.

What if a teacher wanted reinforce their classroom door? Should we be considering replacing the wood doors with steel doors? Adding door bars? Bullet-proof glass for the windows Most schools lock down in situations, but the classroom doors are pretty flimsy. That seems politically and financially feasible.

Last edited by johnwilliamson062; October 19, 2015 at 01:02 PM.
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Old October 19, 2015, 12:49 PM   #63
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What if a teacher wanted reinforce their classroom door? Should we be consideing replacing the wood doors with steel doors? Adding door bars? Most schools lock down in situations, but the classroom doors are pretty flimsy. That seems politically and financially feasible.
This is an excellent point. Put it this way. Every material, door, etc in schools is fireproof. They have sprinklers, etc. Yet nothing is made for lockdown protection in the event of an armed intruder. This is why I wish I could just carry at my university but I cannot. Pepper spray is all I got. We have had people on campus with guns committing crimes too...just no mass shooting type stuff. At this point I just assume I am never going to be able to carry on campus.
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Old October 19, 2015, 07:11 PM   #64
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$300 bullet resistant bag.
Again its not necessary to spend that kind of money. I have $40 in my back pack plate. And if you want a soft plate. You can bobby pin it at the corners to hold it were you want it.
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Old October 19, 2015, 07:37 PM   #65
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All of the doors at any school are reinforced with multiple heavy duty hinges, wire reinforced glass and thick doors but not for reasons of security. Fire regulations dictate that doors and windows need to hold up for a period of time at a certain temperature. I can guarantee that I could go down to the local school to find very formidable doors and wire reinforced windows not easily broken through.

As for a single piece of kevlar or other similar fabric placed into a backpack no one knows how it will truly perform. A laboratory would have to test the combination and come to a conclusion. What if the shot lands at the edge? Just placing some type of armor in a pack doesnt guarantee it will work or work well.
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Old October 19, 2015, 07:44 PM   #66
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You can choose to accept your employer's rules, or you can choose to find a new job. In both cases rights are observed and respected. I don't see a problem with that.
Not this again. :facepalm: Disobeying the rule and accepting the consequences if you're found-out is also respecting the rule.

To the OP, you can also wear a very obvious "bullet proof vest", as much as a political statement as for protection. When your principal forbids you to wear it (and you know s/he will because it implies the school is not "safe") you'll have a pretty good 1st amendment argument.
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Old October 19, 2015, 07:51 PM   #67
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As for a single piece of kevlar or other similar fabric placed into a backpack no one knows how it will truly perform. A laboratory would have to test the combination and come to a conclusion. What if the shot lands at the edge? Just placing some type of armor in a pack doesnt guarantee it will work or work well.
I decided not to wait. The 23 rounds of 9mm, 357, 40, ect shot into one of mine with out a perpetration was good enough for me. They are not bullet proof, just resistant. Is it possible they may penetrate? Sure.
What if it lands at the edge???
Well maybe my luck ran out or maybe it slows it down just enough not to kill me.
What if I get shot in the head?? heck you can die from being shot in the leg.
But if I must take a round I would prefer the leg to sucking chest wound.

Main point is not that you can not be hurt.
But if my main core is covered and I take a 9mm shot to the core. I may just survive.

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To the OP, you can also wear a very obvious "bullet proof vest", as much as a political statement as for protection
Hey I kind of like that idea. I might wait till I get closer to retirement though.
Never know what will happen when you poke some one in a position of authority.
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Old October 19, 2015, 08:06 PM   #68
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All of the doors at any school are reinforced with multiple heavy duty hinges, wire reinforced glass and thick doors but not for reasons of security. Fire regulations dictate that doors and windows need to hold up for a period of time at a certain temperature. I can guarantee that I could go down to the local school to find very formidable doors and wire reinforced windows not easily broken through.
And none of the classroom doors can be locked from the inside. I can't remember if they open in or out. If they swing out they are harder to breach if locked, but cannot be barricaded from the inside if there is no lock. (and vice versa)
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Old October 20, 2015, 06:44 PM   #69
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All of the doors at any school are reinforced with multiple heavy duty hinges, wire reinforced glass and thick doors but not for reasons of security.
I remember some doors being constructed as such, but not all at my HS. That has been a little over a decade, so maybe it has changed. Actually, I found a video from just a few years ago on youtube and it has not. The doors are regular glass. They also open out.
If secure cockits made everyone feel warm and fuzzy after 9/11...
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Old October 30, 2015, 02:32 PM   #70
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Well, that is a firecode violation. The doors and windows on any public buildings have to be formidable enough to stand a fire for a certain period of town. Im not an expert on the issue, but most commercial and business type buildings Ive seen seem to be more formidable than your average household.That said, the doors and windows on the average building are still not "bullet-proof", but I have confidence they will slow an intruders entry better than your typical residence.

Ive been studying the various active shooter court-cases. Reading up and looking at whats available on the internet. Basically, it comes down to two active-shooter. The active-shooter who sprays rounds everywhere and the type which is more methodical. I think its a better strategy to develop a plan of action which is fight or flight and practicing these scenarios in a workplace. Obviously, the best plan is to try to escape, but there are times when fighting might be the best solution such as when all avenues of escape are blocked or you wish to go up against the active shooter to prevent them from shooting additional people.

I dont see the book bag as an option and would discourage its use. Im in Starbucks right now and what if someone came in shooting? It would be a waste of time to grab my bulletproof laptop bag, if it indeed were bulletproof, and use it as a shield. In that very short time I could have jumped behind cover or tried to fight the shooter. Maybe even flung the laptop bag at the attacker. Grabbing it, holding it over my head and that would be a total waste of time. That time being less than a second could be used to move which might make the difference between getting shot or escaping or making a defense against the attacker. Practice yourself with a paint ball gun. Try to put that bookbag over your face and see where your buddy decides to shoot next. While the bag is over your face, you will get nailed in the lower extremities whereas you might not get hit at all if you react reflexively and use that time to jump to cover or escape. That time probably being less than a second is all you need to move that short distance to cover or be on the move or hurling that bookbag in the air at the attacker.
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