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Old July 8, 2011, 11:28 PM   #1
tdmoparguy
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Combustible Paper Shotgun Shells?

I have a Pedersoli Double Barrel SxS 10ga. Has anybody ever made any combustible paper shotgun shells for one? Thought it would make it funner to shoot being quicker to reload and all.
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Old July 9, 2011, 09:32 AM   #2
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Are you thinking about a cartridge that would need the powder to be dumped out to be loaded first?
Or a single cartridge containing both powder and shot that can simply be inserted into the bore whole?
Even the musket rifle cartridges needed to be ripped open to dump its powder in first, and those used the hotter musket caps.
I usually think that anything is possible with muzzle loading.
But perhaps at least loading a booster charge first would be necessary.
Or maybe it would work better with an inline shotgun that utilizes the more powerful 209 primers.
Or develop 2 cartridges, one with powder and one with shot and consider using a loose booster charge.
You may need to be the first to try some experiments and to report on how your idea works out.

Last edited by arcticap; July 9, 2011 at 09:45 AM.
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Old July 9, 2011, 09:46 AM   #3
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Even the musket rifle cartridge needed to be ripped open to dump its powder in first.
The originals yes but you can make them out of materials like tea bags that don't have to be ripped open first. I've never tried making paper shotgun shells and with shot and wads I don't think it would work very well. You could make the powder charge in a paper cartridge tho. With black powder you need to forget speed. Speed is a modern deal. Take your time and enjoy a trip backwards in time to a world that was more leisurely paced.
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Old July 9, 2011, 09:47 AM   #4
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You would have to experiment to make sure that you can get the cartridge through the choked muzzle (if choked). Mine has removable chokes. I've tried different ways to speed up loading but I always come back to speed loader tubes.

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Old July 9, 2011, 09:55 AM   #5
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Most sidelock shotguns have cylinder bores. Any choke bore especially with a double is an iffy proposition for keeping the charge tight. With a choked bore you have a hard time getting wads and cards down the choke and still be tight in the chamber. With a double when you fire the first barrel the charge in the second barrel gets all loosey goosey.
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Old July 9, 2011, 10:01 AM   #6
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A choked barrel is where something like a ball of newspaper can work good as an over shot wad.
It simply needs to be tamped down and compressed very firmly on top of the shot.
It's important to use enough paper to effectively hold the load in place.
If a shot charge won't stay down in the breech then that's a prescription for trouble.
That could lead to an air space that could cause a ruptured or a bulged barrel.

Last edited by arcticap; July 9, 2011 at 02:32 PM.
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Old July 9, 2011, 01:56 PM   #7
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A single Cartridge made out of nitrated paper just like for the BP revolvers is what I'm talking about. with you powder charge a wad and shot all in one. Just was wondering if anybody out there had made some and had any luck with them.
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Old July 9, 2011, 02:12 PM   #8
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I don't think it's feasible but then I never tried it.
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Old July 9, 2011, 06:35 PM   #9
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What people have done is made a prepackaged wad and shot cartridge, and the powder poured in first separately. I read that Eley tried this and nearly went bankrupt- but it does work and can be made with some forms, wads and newspaper, I just need to find the link...I haven't tried it myself. Here's the link to the Eley "universal" cartridge: http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com...shotcartridges

However, I have tried the next way to do it- the "candle cartridge" for muzzleloading shotguns. Here's a link: http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com...ndlecartridges This cartridge seems to work ok as they go and do not pattern any worse than plain shot with an overshot card.

Just know, that any of these methods can really only be used in shotguns without any kind of choke. I would even suggest having a gunsmith chamfering or rounding the muzzle end just a bit if it is sharp and could tear a cartridge or even if it cuts regular card, wool, cork, or fiber. That's just a thought though. After using a muzzleloading shotgun with interchangeable chokes, I have no desire to anymore.
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Last edited by Andy Griffith; July 9, 2011 at 06:44 PM.
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Old July 9, 2011, 06:55 PM   #10
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I'm gonna hafta try that. Thanks
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Old July 9, 2011, 07:07 PM   #11
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You can look up recipes for nitrate paper. It was used in making cartridges for C&B revolvers
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Old July 9, 2011, 07:15 PM   #12
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You can look up recipes for nitrate paper. It was used in making cartridges for C&B revolvers
You don't need it. I use tea bags. They're stronger but you don't have to tear them open. a standard percussion cap will blow through them and they burn clean.
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Old July 10, 2011, 10:59 AM   #13
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Coffee filter paper supposedly works well, too.
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Old July 10, 2011, 11:03 AM   #14
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A choked barrel is where something like a ball of newspaper can work good as an over shot wad.
Newspaper over shot tends to mess with the pattern a bit for me. 1/8" felt wads works better for me, since they'll regain their normal size after you push them through the choke. Some use newspaper between the powder and shot, but that tends to ignite. Lubed felt works better there as well, but are costlier.

Instead of a paper cartridge, it might be worthwhile to devise a ram-through type of cylinder (pvc or some plastic of the right dimensions). Have a rubber cap on one end for the powder side, and be able to ram the rest of the shot column through the cylinder and into the barrel. Choked bores can still be problematic. It really doesn't take that long to load with speed loaders though, so I stick with them in the field.



Black cap is powder side, white is shot side. 1/8" felt wad for over shot, 1/4" felt wad for over powder. I use 1 of the 1/4" wads over powder with hard shot and 2 if using softer shot. I don't bother with over-powder or over-shot cards. Works great for me, loads pretty quick.
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Old July 10, 2011, 11:51 AM   #15
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I'm not a "shotgunner" - the closest I come to it is to using shot in my Flint Fusille de Chasse - so I'll just mention this - if you are thinking about doing it (combustible shotgun shells/cartridges) and shooting competition with them, I'd check to see if the range rules allow for it in NMLRA competition. I'm neutral on this and not pro or con on it at all - I would think that there might be a safety issue/question though about "embers" - just a thought on my part as I read this and thought I'd mention it. As I say, I'm not a shotgunner and I don't know if you guyes run a wet one down the bore between shots or not? I'm sure that someone on her that shoots NMLRA sanctioned events could answer as to whether or not it would be allowed. It's an interesting concept - let us know if you try it and how it works. Thanks!
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Old July 10, 2011, 11:57 AM   #16
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I'm not a shotgunner and I don't know if you guyes run a wet one down the bore between shots or not?
Don't need to with shotguns.
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Old July 10, 2011, 05:35 PM   #17
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Don't need to with shotguns.
But I do run a wet patch down the bore, if I'm shooting pretty quick succession to make certain no embers are in there- but it isn't to get rid of fouling...while fowling.
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Old July 10, 2011, 09:50 PM   #18
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Coffee filter paper supposedly works well, too.
Some of my clientele use coffee filters in their 'work'. It does tend to have a lot of chemical residue in it.

Also, it could cause somebody to become addicted to black powder shooting in a slightly different way, if you catch my drift.

The Doc is out now.
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