Shooting Low and to the Left

spookygeek · November 6, 2010, 08:21 PM

I made it to the range today for the first time in a very long time. Other than being rusty, i spent the first 90% of my time just having fun with my bro, not aiming for anything in particular, trying out a few different range rentals (G17, SR9, GP100). The last magazine, I made an effort on aim, took my time, and found I can put together a nice cluster (2.5" or so at 7 yards) but it was about 3" down and 3" left from where I was aiming. Anyone have any help as to whether this was me, or the range rental P226? I am also left eye dominant/right handed and shot with my right eye closed if this may have any bearing.

Thanks,

BRENT

Krazy Cash · November 6, 2010, 08:32 PM

I know I had the same problem at the range, breaking in my Beretta. But I highly doubt it was the gun. I tend to lean towards trigger control. I was aiming for dead center but I was squeezing the trigger at the joint instead of the pad of the finger. I have since found a nitch that works for me and with a little practice i'm seeing improvement.

Onward Allusion · November 6, 2010, 10:00 PM

#1 Left Eye Dominant/Right Handed - Being left eye dominant and right handed is throwing you off. I have the same issue. When I close my left eye and aim out of my right, I am dead on. However, when I have both eyes open, I need to line my left eye to the sights. It makes for a funny looking stance.

#2 Trigger control - Too much finger and you're likely jerking or flinching. Use the pad (near the tip) and not the 1st knuckle unless it's a revolver in DA or a DAO pistol.

#3 Grip (left hand) - Adjust your left grip slightly. Use your right thumb to guide and hold the pistol. I have my left thumb locked under my right thumb against the pistol's grip.

I'm sure there are a bunch of things the others can suggest, but the above is what I had learned.

Big Bill · November 6, 2010, 10:46 PM

Here are a couple of charts that may help...

KenpoTex · November 7, 2010, 02:37 AM

I would lay money on this being, primarily, a trigger-control issue.

Do dry-fire drills (triple check to make sure pistol is empty) until you can press the trigger without the sights moving.

Do "Ball and dummy" drills (live and dummy rounds mixed at random in magazine) to make sure you're not flinching and/or anticipating recoil.

Links to a few articles worth checking out:
cross-dominance: http://pistol-training.com/archives/433
ball & dummy drill: http://pistol-training.com/archives/210
"correction target": http://pistol-training.com/archives/292

tons of good stuff on that site.

Eagle0711 · November 7, 2010, 03:03 AM

My son in law is left eye dominant and right handed and all his handguns shoot to the left.

pax · November 7, 2010, 09:23 AM

Read this: www.corneredcat.com/Basics/flinch.aspx

Hope it helps.

pax

spookygeek · November 7, 2010, 10:07 AM

I think next time I hit the range I am going to make a point of shooting one set with my right eye open vs left eye open. At least this way if I shoot the same I can reduce the issue down to my trigger pull. Given that I'm still new at this I'm going to bet its my trigger.

Thanks for the feedback.

BRENT

spookygeek · November 7, 2010, 10:09 AM

Found this little tidbit on the cornered car website, thought it was a great idea...

"Lay a penny across the top of the front sight so that it is resting there. Then dry fire as usual. Align the sights, focus on the front sight, and steadily increase pressure on the trigger while keeping the coin balanced on top of the front sight. Can you do it?"

Not something to do at the range obviously, but i think its a great indicator of seeing what is happening to your aim as you pull the trigger.

BRENT

retiredcoasty · November 7, 2010, 07:08 PM

Four Seasons Firearms in MA has a little help diagram. Here’s what they say:

Low Horizontal Left Possible Causes

1. Pushing the trigger, moving it and the gun to the left.
2. Poor sight alignment: front sight alignment is off to the left.
3. Applying extra pressure with fingertips and/or pinkie.

http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/grp-analysis.pdf

wally626 · November 8, 2010, 10:13 AM

Missing the point of aim, is usually an issue with shooting technique, but sights can be off, and sometimes you may be using the sights wrong on a unfamiliar gun. The smaller the group is, the more likely the sights are off or being used wrong, versus poor trigger technique.

KenpoTex · November 8, 2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wally626

The smaller the group is, the more likely the sights are off or being used wrong, versus poor trigger technique.

Not necessarily...it can just mean you're doing the same thing wrong every time.

Big Bill · November 9, 2010, 12:13 AM

Great article pax. I learned loads. Thanks.

darkgael · November 9, 2010, 06:27 AM

Quote:

. Applying extra pressure with fingertips and/or pinkie

Very true. This one is difficult to notice except for the result. Small motor movements in the hand control much of what happens as the gun goes off.
The issue is sympathetic movement of the finger tips of the middle, ring, and pinkie fingers when the trigger finger is moved.
Easy to observe - hold your shooting hand out. Relax it. Move your trigger finger as if you were squeezing a trigger. Notice that as you do that, the three other fingers move along a bit. It is especially noticeable with repetitive movement of the trigger finger. Unless this is stopped, it continues when you shoot - and it doesn't take much to throw the shot.
Pete

November 6, 2010, 10:46 PM	#4
Big Bill Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,053	Here are a couple of charts that may help... __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." - General George Patton Jr

November 7, 2010, 02:37 AM	#5
KenpoTex Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2009 Location: SW Missouri Posts: 215	I would lay money on this being, primarily, a trigger-control issue. Do dry-fire drills (triple check to make sure pistol is empty) until you can press the trigger without the sights moving. Do "Ball and dummy" drills (live and dummy rounds mixed at random in magazine) to make sure you're not flinching and/or anticipating recoil. Links to a few articles worth checking out: cross-dominance: http://pistol-training.com/archives/433 ball & dummy drill: http://pistol-training.com/archives/210 "correction target": http://pistol-training.com/archives/292 tons of good stuff on that site. __________________ "Either you are the weapon and your gun is a tool, or your gun is the weapon and you are a tool." Matt K.

November 7, 2010, 09:23 AM	#7
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Read this: www.corneredcat.com/Basics/flinch.aspx Hope it helps. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

November 9, 2010, 12:13 AM	#13
Big Bill Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,053	Great article pax. I learned loads. Thanks. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." - General George Patton Jr

November 6, 2010, 08:21 PM	#1
spookygeek Member Join Date: May 13, 2010 Posts: 27	Shooting Low and to the Left I made it to the range today for the first time in a very long time. Other than being rusty, i spent the first 90% of my time just having fun with my bro, not aiming for anything in particular, trying out a few different range rentals (G17, SR9, GP100). The last magazine, I made an effort on aim, took my time, and found I can put together a nice cluster (2.5" or so at 7 yards) but it was about 3" down and 3" left from where I was aiming. Anyone have any help as to whether this was me, or the range rental P226? I am also left eye dominant/right handed and shot with my right eye closed if this may have any bearing. Thanks, BRENT

November 6, 2010, 08:32 PM	#2
Krazy Cash Junior Member Join Date: October 28, 2010 Posts: 13	I know I had the same problem at the range, breaking in my Beretta. But I highly doubt it was the gun. I tend to lean towards trigger control. I was aiming for dead center but I was squeezing the trigger at the joint instead of the pad of the finger. I have since found a nitch that works for me and with a little practice i'm seeing improvement. __________________ I never know what to write in these things. This will have to do until I can think of something clever.

November 6, 2010, 10:00 PM	#3
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	#1 Left Eye Dominant/Right Handed - Being left eye dominant and right handed is throwing you off. I have the same issue. When I close my left eye and aim out of my right, I am dead on. However, when I have both eyes open, I need to line my left eye to the sights. It makes for a funny looking stance. #2 Trigger control - Too much finger and you're likely jerking or flinching. Use the pad (near the tip) and not the 1st knuckle unless it's a revolver in DA or a DAO pistol. #3 Grip (left hand) - Adjust your left grip slightly. Use your right thumb to guide and hold the pistol. I have my left thumb locked under my right thumb against the pistol's grip. I'm sure there are a bunch of things the others can suggest, but the above is what I had learned. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

November 7, 2010, 03:03 AM	#6
Eagle0711 Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Posts: 782	My son in law is left eye dominant and right handed and all his handguns shoot to the left.

November 7, 2010, 10:07 AM	#8
spookygeek Member Join Date: May 13, 2010 Posts: 27	I think next time I hit the range I am going to make a point of shooting one set with my right eye open vs left eye open. At least this way if I shoot the same I can reduce the issue down to my trigger pull. Given that I'm still new at this I'm going to bet its my trigger. Thanks for the feedback. BRENT

November 7, 2010, 10:09 AM	#9
spookygeek Member Join Date: May 13, 2010 Posts: 27	Found this little tidbit on the cornered car website, thought it was a great idea... "Lay a penny across the top of the front sight so that it is resting there. Then dry fire as usual. Align the sights, focus on the front sight, and steadily increase pressure on the trigger while keeping the coin balanced on top of the front sight. Can you do it?" Not something to do at the range obviously, but i think its a great indicator of seeing what is happening to your aim as you pull the trigger. BRENT

November 7, 2010, 07:08 PM	#10
retiredcoasty Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2009 Location: Central Massachusetts Posts: 139	Four Seasons Firearms in MA has a little help diagram. Here’s what they say: Low Horizontal Left Possible Causes 1. Pushing the trigger, moving it and the gun to the left. 2. Poor sight alignment: front sight alignment is off to the left. 3. Applying extra pressure with fingertips and/or pinkie. http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/grp-analysis.pdf

November 8, 2010, 10:13 AM	#11
wally626 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 642	Missing the point of aim, is usually an issue with shooting technique, but sights can be off, and sometimes you may be using the sights wrong on a unfamiliar gun. The smaller the group is, the more likely the sights are off or being used wrong, versus poor trigger technique.