Making a low-profile red-dot only rail for Ruger GSR?

Crosshair · May 27, 2019, 11:32 PM

I have a pair of Ruger GSRs, a scout scope on one with a red-dot on the other. I have been thinking about how I can get the red-dot one to allow me to use the iron sights with the red-dot mounted. Either by co-witnessing or by a see-through scope ring. I have a Vortex Strikefire that uses a single standard 30mm ring to mount, so getting an appropriate height see-through ring would not be a problem.

My idea involves taking off the factory rail and putting on a short length of rail that only uses the two front screws. As you can see in the photo, that part of the barrel would allow a section of rail to sit much lower, making it much easier for the hole in 30mm see-through rings to clear the open sights or, even allow the red-dot to co-witness with the sights.

I tried searching, but didn't find anything on the subject. I feel like I can't have been the first person to ask this question. Does anyone know what the hole spacing is for those two screws and if there is an factory scope base, of whatever make or model, or picatinny rail section that would fit and sit low like I want? I could try to whip something up in my drill press, but something factory made would probably work better.

Thanks for all your help.

riffraff · May 28, 2019, 08:42 PM

One question might be why you want that?

Maybe you can find a riser or optic mount that allows viewing underneath with no further hassel.

As a backup option, if thats what you want, putting the optic on a quick release mount I like better. Pull off your optic if it fails and use the iron sights.

Mobuck · May 29, 2019, 06:41 AM

Seems to me that all this "either/or", BUIS, and other back up sight gizmo(ish) stuff only adds confusion during actual use.
Get a GOOD red dot or other optic and USE IT or use the open sights as issued.

precision_shooter · May 29, 2019, 09:23 AM

I question why on a non-magnified optic.
Typically this method is used when you have a magnified optic but a target is too close to use the optic so you use the iron sights. I suppose this could be a “backup” in case the red dot fails, but then, why wouldn’t you just remove the red dot?

Maybe a batter option is a swing mount like used for red dot magnifiers on ARs? Not sure how well it would hold zero or re-zero though.

NoSecondBest · May 29, 2019, 09:38 AM

I have never had a single red dot fail at any time during the last thirty years. I've shot a lot of competition with them for years and I have them on all my handguns now days. Putting both on a handgun is a waste of time. If it does fail (very unlikely) just take it off. FWIW, a battery will last a couple of seasons on the ones they make now days. Many of them shut off when not in use after a period of time. This is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

riffraff · May 30, 2019, 03:13 AM

Im not sure I get the optic choice either, seems you'd want magnification on this rifle..

But another option if one wanted 1x, didnt want to just use a quick release to strip an optic off if need be, and doesnt trust a battery operated device would be an etched 1x like a vortex spitfire - Once I tried one of those I kinda question if a red dot has any advantage other than they usually turn themselves off where (if you use it but its not needed since its etched) the spitfire needs a manual on/off.

straightshooterjake · May 30, 2019, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riffraff

But another option if one wanted 1x, didnt want to just use a quick release to strip an optic off if need be, and doesnt trust a battery operated device would be an etched 1x like a vortex spitfire - Once I tried one of those I kinda question if a red dot has any advantage other than they usually turn themselves off where (if you use it but its not needed since its etched) the spitfire needs a manual on/off.

There are some significant differences between 1x prism optics, like the spitfire, and traditional red dots. I find these differences make the two types of sights not directly comparable.

Prism optics have a limited range of eye relief, unlike 1x red dot sights which have unlimited eye relief. So red dots can be used on a pistol, or mounted anywhere on a long rail. Prism optics need to be mounted a specific distance from the eye. I am not sure whether any of the common prism optics have enough eye relief to go on a scout rail.

The etched reticle on prism optics works much better for some people with astigmatism. Some people with astigmatism find that the dot on a red dot appears as a star, or a line, or otherwise distorted. But often the etched reticle on a prism optic looks perfect.

Specifically related to the spitfire, the battery life is far short of the more efficient red dots. The better red dot sights get several years of runtime from one battery. This means they can be left on all the time, and have the battery changed once per year. The spitfire does not have enough runtime to be left on for extended periods. And while a prism optic has an etched reticle that can be used with no battery, that reticle is not very visible in low light.

So overall, even though there are some similarities between red dot sights and 1x prism optics, I find that the differences are more important than the similarities.

riffraff · May 31, 2019, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by straightshooterjake

There are some significant differences between 1x prism optics, like the spitfire, and traditional red dots. I find these differences make the two types of sights not directly comparable.

Prism optics have a limited range of eye relief, unlike 1x red dot sights which have unlimited eye relief. So red dots can be used on a pistol, or mounted anywhere on a long rail. Prism optics need to be mounted a specific distance from the eye. I am not sure whether any of the common prism optics have enough eye relief to go on a scout rail.

The etched reticle on prism optics works much better for some people with astigmatism. Some people with astigmatism find that the dot on a red dot appears as a star, or a line, or otherwise distorted. But often the etched reticle on a prism optic looks perfect.

Specifically related to the spitfire, the battery life is far short of the more efficient red dots. The better red dot sights get several years of runtime from one battery. This means they can be left on all the time, and have the battery changed once per year. The spitfire does not have enough runtime to be left on for extended periods. And while a prism optic has an etched reticle that can be used with no battery, that reticle is not very visible in low light.

So overall, even though there are some similarities between red dot sights and 1x prism optics, I find that the differences are more important than the similarities.

Most of that is true but Id say is a bit less of a factor. If you can get a prism at the right distance - which is a good point that you may not with this odd rifle, there is a wide range of eye relief I find is ok w/ the spitfire, ie no matter where I have an adjustable stock when my cheek touches Im in focus with both eyes open..

On the etched recticle there is a very slim difference for me where the illumination helps (ie say that last 15 minutes before udder sundown), but I am the sort of person who wears sunglasses driving in the rain, dont need much light..

I do have a slight astigmatism, 25/20 vision, but the dots show a little starburst for me while the etched is crystal clear. Red dots I can shoot with fine, basically its a slightly bigger dot is all, but maybe thats part of why I like the etched.

May 27, 2019, 11:32 PM	#1
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Making a low-profile red-dot only rail for Ruger GSR? I have a pair of Ruger GSRs, a scout scope on one with a red-dot on the other. I have been thinking about how I can get the red-dot one to allow me to use the iron sights with the red-dot mounted. Either by co-witnessing or by a see-through scope ring. I have a Vortex Strikefire that uses a single standard 30mm ring to mount, so getting an appropriate height see-through ring would not be a problem. My idea involves taking off the factory rail and putting on a short length of rail that only uses the two front screws. As you can see in the photo, that part of the barrel would allow a section of rail to sit much lower, making it much easier for the hole in 30mm see-through rings to clear the open sights or, even allow the red-dot to co-witness with the sights. I tried searching, but didn't find anything on the subject. I feel like I can't have been the first person to ask this question. Does anyone know what the hole spacing is for those two screws and if there is an factory scope base, of whatever make or model, or picatinny rail section that would fit and sit low like I want? I could try to whip something up in my drill press, but something factory made would probably work better. Thanks for all your help. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

May 29, 2019, 09:23 AM	#4
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	I question why on a non-magnified optic. Typically this method is used when you have a magnified optic but a target is too close to use the optic so you use the iron sights. I suppose this could be a “backup” in case the red dot fails, but then, why wouldn’t you just remove the red dot? Maybe a batter option is a swing mount like used for red dot magnifiers on ARs? Not sure how well it would hold zero or re-zero though. __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

May 28, 2019, 08:42 PM	#2
riffraff Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2016 Posts: 629	One question might be why you want that? Maybe you can find a riser or optic mount that allows viewing underneath with no further hassel. As a backup option, if thats what you want, putting the optic on a quick release mount I like better. Pull off your optic if it fails and use the iron sights.

May 29, 2019, 06:41 AM	#3
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Seems to me that all this "either/or", BUIS, and other back up sight gizmo(ish) stuff only adds confusion during actual use. Get a GOOD red dot or other optic and USE IT or use the open sights as issued.

May 29, 2019, 09:38 AM	#5
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	I have never had a single red dot fail at any time during the last thirty years. I've shot a lot of competition with them for years and I have them on all my handguns now days. Putting both on a handgun is a waste of time. If it does fail (very unlikely) just take it off. FWIW, a battery will last a couple of seasons on the ones they make now days. Many of them shut off when not in use after a period of time. This is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

May 30, 2019, 03:13 AM	#6
riffraff Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2016 Posts: 629	Im not sure I get the optic choice either, seems you'd want magnification on this rifle.. But another option if one wanted 1x, didnt want to just use a quick release to strip an optic off if need be, and doesnt trust a battery operated device would be an etched 1x like a vortex spitfire - Once I tried one of those I kinda question if a red dot has any advantage other than they usually turn themselves off where (if you use it but its not needed since its etched) the spitfire needs a manual on/off.