Imminent case failure - Page 2

RC20 · March 2, 2019, 04:42 PM

I know I sound like Mr. G, but my brother and I have seen this same issue and we did not have the inside indicator (nor could you see it on the cut)

Nor am I saying its not true, I am saying you can get case split despite it not showing (mine seem to be lower down that whats being portrayed but its in 06 not 223)

This was Mil Surplus chambers and we stopped the issue by doing the minu8m shoulder bump back and in my case, I moved to separate mfgs of brass for the 1917s. I don't shoot a lot of 1903.

I do the same thing on the 3 x 7.5 Swiss I shoot. Each gets its down cases. Not only head space difference but some miner shoulder differences as well. No issues as long as each gets its own fodder.

At this point in the target 06, I get loose primers before I get case separations (and annealing I don't get neck splits) - I don't keep close track but the 06 cases have 10-15 reloads at an estimate (the hardest used ones).

That keeps costs down on new cases. Long time for anneler to pay back, but its steady and avoids annoyance of ordering new brass (or in my cause usually once fired RP)

7.5 Swiss is not found once fired so I do have to buy new brass for that, so there is a significant return in those guns.

**Unclenick** · March 2, 2019, 04:53 PM

Separation near the head is the place where most brass gets it. But there have been a number of cases, especially from overseas, with walls that are extra thick halfway up the body. That shifts the location of the stretch if the pressure doesn't fatten and stick the thick portion of the walls to the chamber in time. That thick-walled design is what that illustration of mine was originally intended to show. For most brass, the thinning would be further back.

hounddawg · March 2, 2019, 06:44 PM

Well I shot 15 more of those today that I had loaded previously. I paperclipped them all and found nothing but I am still real leery of shooting that brass in a match

Jsnake711 · March 2, 2019, 10:36 PM

I just got done reloading 1k of these. This is why I just buy 223 ammo. You can find some really cheap prices for all the effort it takes to reload them. I mainly got into this for loading 308 at a fraction of the cost of match factory ammo.

hounddawg · March 3, 2019, 06:53 AM

I reload my own .223 for accuracy, not cost savings

NWPilgrim · March 3, 2019, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hounddawg

I reload my own .223 for accuracy, not cost savings

I do it for both reasons. Through times of low prices and high prices so have always been able to save money reloading even on 55 gr FMJ ammo. Plus, buying Hornady 55 gr FMJ bullets in bulk still gives me groups about half the size of factory bulk ammo. Savings on match ammo is much greater and handloads are still significantly more accurate. Cheaper AND better. Can’t beat that!

P Flados · March 3, 2019, 11:49 PM

There can be a real challenge for folks that want to shoot the same ammo from multiple guns or for even for guys that want to do full length sizing for guns with chambers that result in too much working of the brass.

Needing to be concerned about having a guns with a "loose fit chamber" is not new.

Unless you have a "medium fit" or tighter chamber, expecting a long case life with full length sizing in a standard sizing die is unfounded.

Varmint hunters and some target shooters long ago figured out that with really tight chambers and moderate loads, they could get really good case life and could reload without even using a sizing die.

With the craze for semi-automatic rifles that can shoot cheep mass produce ammo for "military rounds", you have to expect a good may of these rifles to have "loose fit chambers".

Even though this is not a new issue, there are a lot of reloaders out there that do not full understand the need to be aware of the issue and deal with it if they have a gun likely to cause problems. If you monitor case length regularly, more than typical "stretching" is a warning sign.

Even with a gun that does ok with most brass can have issues with a specific brand/batch.

Again, reloaders just need to understand the potential and to pay attention.

March 2, 2019, 04:42 PM	#26
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I know I sound like Mr. G, but my brother and I have seen this same issue and we did not have the inside indicator (nor could you see it on the cut) Nor am I saying its not true, I am saying you can get case split despite it not showing (mine seem to be lower down that whats being portrayed but its in 06 not 223) This was Mil Surplus chambers and we stopped the issue by doing the minu8m shoulder bump back and in my case, I moved to separate mfgs of brass for the 1917s. I don't shoot a lot of 1903. I do the same thing on the 3 x 7.5 Swiss I shoot. Each gets its down cases. Not only head space difference but some miner shoulder differences as well. No issues as long as each gets its own fodder. At this point in the target 06, I get loose primers before I get case separations (and annealing I don't get neck splits) - I don't keep close track but the 06 cases have 10-15 reloads at an estimate (the hardest used ones). That keeps costs down on new cases. Long time for anneler to pay back, but its steady and avoids annoyance of ordering new brass (or in my cause usually once fired RP) 7.5 Swiss is not found once fired so I do have to buy new brass for that, so there is a significant return in those guns. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

March 2, 2019, 04:53 PM	#27
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Separation near the head is the place where most brass gets it. But there have been a number of cases, especially from overseas, with walls that are extra thick halfway up the body. That shifts the location of the stretch if the pressure doesn't fatten and stick the thick portion of the walls to the chamber in time. That thick-walled design is what that illustration of mine was originally intended to show. For most brass, the thinning would be further back. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 2, 2019, 06:44 PM	#28
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Well I shot 15 more of those today that I had loaded previously. I paperclipped them all and found nothing but I am still real leery of shooting that brass in a match __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

March 3, 2019, 06:53 AM	#30
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	I reload my own .223 for accuracy, not cost savings __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

March 2, 2019, 10:36 PM	#29
Jsnake711 Member Join Date: January 18, 2019 Posts: 95	I just got done reloading 1k of these. This is why I just buy 223 ammo. You can find some really cheap prices for all the effort it takes to reload them. I mainly got into this for loading 308 at a fraction of the cost of match factory ammo.

March 3, 2019, 11:49 PM	#32
P Flados Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2017 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 243	There can be a real challenge for folks that want to shoot the same ammo from multiple guns or for even for guys that want to do full length sizing for guns with chambers that result in too much working of the brass. Needing to be concerned about having a guns with a "loose fit chamber" is not new. Unless you have a "medium fit" or tighter chamber, expecting a long case life with full length sizing in a standard sizing die is unfounded. Varmint hunters and some target shooters long ago figured out that with really tight chambers and moderate loads, they could get really good case life and could reload without even using a sizing die. With the craze for semi-automatic rifles that can shoot cheep mass produce ammo for "military rounds", you have to expect a good may of these rifles to have "loose fit chambers". Even though this is not a new issue, there are a lot of reloaders out there that do not full understand the need to be aware of the issue and deal with it if they have a gun likely to cause problems. If you monitor case length regularly, more than typical "stretching" is a warning sign. Even with a gun that does ok with most brass can have issues with a specific brand/batch. Again, reloaders just need to understand the potential and to pay attention.