The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 22, 2014, 01:19 PM   #1
steelbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 19, 2010
Posts: 180
Firecracker powder in BP guns?

Stumbled across this thought, and wondered if anyone knew about this-
Is it possible to use the black powder in fireworks in BP guns? It would seem that it could be done - we all know what firecracker powders can do in terms of bomb making. I know that there may be extreme inconsistencies with this kind of powder, but could it work? Wondering if anyone's tried it.
steelbird is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 01:29 PM   #2
maillemaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2010
Posts: 1,635
The problem is, you probably have no idea exactly what kind of "powder" is in any given firework you happen to crack open. Unless you are some kind of fireworks pyrotechnician and/or have direct access to the manufacturer who will tell you. I believe that the colors that are produced are made by adding chemicals to the mix, for example.

Experimenting with unknown powders sounds like a risky idea to me.

Steve
maillemaker is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 01:33 PM   #3
Trum4n1208
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2013
Posts: 173
I'd rather not risk it. I've got a good supply of both BP and good replicant powders, so I have no reason to try. I'd say don't do it.
Trum4n1208 is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 01:34 PM   #4
steelbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 19, 2010
Posts: 180
Very valid point, maillemaker. I wasn't thinking about the ones that are display types, though. Just the straight out noise maker firecrackers.
steelbird is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 01:58 PM   #5
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,720
Firecrackers are made with flash powder, not gun powder (magnesium, aluminum, and potassium perchlorate, for instance.) It's totally different and much higher energy than black powder -- actually close to what they used to put in corrosive primers.

It might be okay for filling hand grenades...
__________________
"Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth
zxcvbob is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 02:12 PM   #6
steelbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 19, 2010
Posts: 180
That part about flash powder- that I did not know. Thanks!
End of curious thought.........
steelbird is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 02:25 PM   #7
bedbugbilly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2009
Posts: 3,283
If you aren't sure of what the powder is - whether Black or Smokeless. . . . . . it has one name - FERTILIZER.

Use common sense . . . black powder or substitutes specifically made to use as black powder are to be used in black powder firearms.

Smokeless powders are to be used in firearms that are specifically made for the high pressure of smokeless powder.

Fireworks and the powder in them are to be used for one thing - fireworks.
__________________
If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63
bedbugbilly is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 03:58 PM   #8
DennisCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2012
Location: Union City CA (a.k.a. Poople's Republik of CA)
Posts: 451
Sounds like a accident waiting to happen...
DennisCA is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 09:34 PM   #9
jeager106
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2006
Location: N.E. Oh.
Posts: 527
Really, really, BAD idea.
Forget that.
jeager106 is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 09:42 PM   #10
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,876
I'm not to sure about this comment. I think Flash powder as told years ago was far and away more unstable verses Black. Probably even rated differently under Hazmat rules Flash is.
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 11:08 PM   #11
Hellgate
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2010
Location: Orygun
Posts: 868
Having dissected numerous firecrackers as a kid I can tell you that those which had black powder in them were rather weak in their report even the 3" ones. Those with flash powder (Zebras were the best) would really BOOM. The flash powder was a silvery (metallic) grey. There was about 1/8"X1" of powder in a good cracker. I figured that a full chamber of that stuff would surely blow a BP gun to bits. One decent firecracker could propel a soup can about 50 feet into the air (standing the open ended soup can in about 3" of water in a coffee can to make the chamber of the soup can smaller and leaving about 1/8" of the firecracker sticking out of the small hole in the top of the soup can so we could light the fuse). A full 44 chamber would have been like a cherry bomb or M-80.
__________________
With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball.
SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129
Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)
Hellgate is offline  
Old May 23, 2014, 04:08 AM   #12
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
PowderValley is still sellin' Pyrodex for $13.65/lb.
That works for me!
__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 23, 2014, 01:47 PM   #13
maillemaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2010
Posts: 1,635
Maybe this is why those Boston Bombers went to the trouble to disassemble fireworks to get their powder. I wondered why they didn't just go to a sporting goods store and buy black or smokeless powder.
maillemaker is offline  
Old May 23, 2014, 02:06 PM   #14
jimbob86
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
Quote:
Having dissected numerous firecrackers as a kid I can tell you that those which had black powder in them were rather weak in their report even the 3" ones. Those with flash powder (Zebras were the best) would really BOOM. The flash powder was a silvery (metallic) grey.
This.

Firecracker powder, as I recall, was VERY fine, silvery in color, and had the texture of greasy powdered graphite .....
jimbob86 is offline  
Old May 23, 2014, 02:43 PM   #15
Poindexter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2009
Location: Interior Alaska
Posts: 154
Alright fellas, I have fooled with this a little bit on my farm and I will drop a couple comments.

1. We are talking about pyrotechnic powder. Black powder, same sulfur, potassium nitrate charcoal mix as black powder for firearms.

2. Not sorted in the same set of screens as the FF, FFF and FFFF system shooters use. Similar, but not samey-same.

3. There are a host of coatings and minor ingredients that can be added to pyrotechnic powder while it is being made to make pretty colors. None of them are good for gun barrels.

4. Black powder, whether pyrotechnic powder or FFg for your .45 Colt is a low explosive. Potentially stricter state laws aside, the federal limit is/was you may posess up to 50# of black powder for personal use at any one time. In many instances (roman candles, rockets that fly) the entire weight of the finished pyrotechnic device counts as black powder. Thus an amatuer pyrotechnician might have 25 pounds of actual black powder tied up in "pyrotechnic devices" that weigh 50 pounds in aggregate, and be at the federal legal possession limit. I do not know the applicable laws in your state.

5. Actual flash powder is a high explosive. It can only be produced, posessed and discharged by ATFE licensees. Period. No exceptions. See #3 above.

6. In practice making homemade pyrotechnic powder that sends bullets out of 45 Colt cases over a choronograph at speeds readily achievable by Goex and Elephant and Swiss is a significant undertaking. Pyrotechnicians need consistent powder, but they aren't racing bullets with each other.
Poindexter is offline  
Old May 24, 2014, 06:47 AM   #16
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
.

deleted
Hawg is offline  
Old May 24, 2014, 07:14 AM   #17
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,876
Why Flash isn't used for B/P weapons. Its known to exhibit a violent and intense burn. Flash powder's energy develops almost instantly. Where as a black powder burn tends to string itself out over so many inches of barrel length when under reasonable compression. If one were to use flash in a weapon designed for B/ P use. No doubt there would be a very good chance of its shooter experiencing a cataclysmic event. {the total destruction the weapons breech plug.} Even a small amount of Flash could show undesirable results in such a circumstance. Flash powder itself is easy to make. Easier than Black even. But because it has a reputation of being violent in nature. One should be very leery in its mixing. You just don't get your fingers burnt with Flash. You loose them.
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old May 24, 2014, 01:33 PM   #18
Driftwood Johnson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2014
Location: Land of the Pilgrims
Posts: 2,032
Quote:
Maybe this is why those Boston Bombers went to the trouble to disassemble fireworks to get their powder. I wondered why they didn't just go to a sporting goods store and buy black or smokeless powder.
They crossed the state line to New Hampshire and bought fireworks from a fireworks dealer. Fireworks are illegal in Mass, they are legal and unregulated in NH.
Driftwood Johnson is offline  
Old May 25, 2014, 04:44 PM   #19
mec
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2001
Posts: 1,536
somebody who seems to know what he is talking about said that black power in fireworks is basically Lifting powder - like for rockets and salutes. He called the flash power used in crackers and other explosive poppers 'High Explosive" and guaranteed that it would shatter a black powder or modern firearm. Perchlorate and powdered metals are nasty.
mec is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08283 seconds with 8 queries