Maybe I Found my .30-06 Load Today

JefferS · April 6, 2014, 03:51 PM

Met up with my buddy at the range today and tried a new load in my new (to me) Remington Sportsman 78 .30-06. I went a few weeks ago and wasn't happy with the factory loads I was using, so I free floated the barrel and went back with some handloads. Factory loads were better, but my first handloads I tried seemed pretty good at 100 yd.

Now I've got to load up some more and see if I can do it again.

obiwannabe · April 6, 2014, 04:03 PM

Meh...not bad, I guess. I can still see three holes though. Keep working on it.

Nice work.

JefferS · April 6, 2014, 04:30 PM

Quote:

I can still see three holes though.

I thought I missed the target on the second shot. Just glad I had my mentor there to witness it. It was his recipe that I started with.

Blindstitch · April 6, 2014, 04:37 PM

Good group. Now duplicate and bring it up to that 10 spot.

Rattlehead · April 6, 2014, 04:51 PM

Very nice.

kilotanker22 · April 6, 2014, 05:20 PM

Nice load there. IMr 4350 is always a great powder for the 06

reynolds357 · April 6, 2014, 07:42 PM

IMR 4350 is the powder for the 150 in the 06. Awesome group. Not being negative, but shoot a 10 shot group. I have rifles and loads that will shoot a one hole group in the midst of a few fliers. 3 shot groups provide valuable information, but they need more shots for verification.

JefferS · April 6, 2014, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Not being negative, but shoot a 10 shot group.

That is my next plan. And why I only said maybe found. So I'm not taking it as negative, but good advice.

BTW, this is the first time I've got to try out 4350. I had been using Reloder 19 (for a different rifle). I'm happy with three shots of 4350 so far ...

hooligan1 · April 6, 2014, 09:09 PM

Pretty nice group for a Sportsman 78, and after a 10 shot group maybe youll have some concrete evidence that your mentor is a genuis

JefferS · April 6, 2014, 09:19 PM

Quote:

youll have some concrete evidence that your mentor is a genuis

That's what it's really about, isn't it?

Mike / Tx · April 7, 2014, 07:36 AM

You're doing well. That load is or has been about like that in over half a dozen different rifles I have worked on through the years.

It is rare when they don't like it.

AllenJ · April 7, 2014, 08:41 AM

Very nice group. In the 80's I had a 700 BDL that shot very similar to your 78 using IMR4350 and 150 grn Sierra SBT's. I sold that rifle to get another.....don't make the same mistake as I did!

JefferS · April 7, 2014, 09:16 AM

Quote:

...don't make the same mistake as I did!

I got the Sportsman 78 because I thought it would make a good stepping stone for something better. But if I can repeat what I did (both as a handloader and a shooter) then I will have to hang on to it.

I've got to get a tooth pulled this week, but I hope I can get to the range by the weekend and see if it was dumb luck or something repeatable. I'm pretty confident of the powder and bullet, since they've got a lot of history. I just have to work on all my techniques to see if I can get those repeatable as well.

kerreckt · April 7, 2014, 12:38 PM

I use RL17 with 150gr and 180gr with good results. I shoot these from my 64 year old Remington 721. IMR 4350 and RL17 have a very similar burn rate. I get a bit higher velocity from the RL17 and I suspect lower pressure but have no way of testing so can't be positive of this. I think RL17 is often overlooked as a good 30.06 option.

taylorce1 · April 8, 2014, 11:23 AM

Nice shooting, it's hard to believe you can do that after Hooligan1 helped you out.

I agree the group needs some verification, but I wouldn't shoot a 10 shot group. If you haven't changed the scope I'd go shoot a new 3 shot group and overlay the targets. Then if you want on another day you can shoot 3 shots again and overlay the target and mark holes again. I'd do this at least 3 times, so if you made the scope adjustments toss that group out and start over.

With a .30-06 hunting rifle it is just a hard task to hold a 10 shot group in one day. IMO overlaying 3 shot groups shot on different days is a much better way to limit the shooter problems that come from being fatigued by recoil. If you can keep all 9 shots under 1.5" from POA then you have a pretty darn good shooting rifle to hunt with.

JefferS · April 8, 2014, 12:13 PM

Quote:

I'd go shoot a new 3 shot group and overlay the targets. Then if you want on another day you can shoot 3 shots again and overlay the target and mark holes again. I'd do this at least 3 times

Interesting suggestion, taylorce1. I had not thought of that. I haven't adjusted my scope yet, so that is an option. That'll obviously take longer, but I guess I will have a reason to keep working up my .308 loads to take out at the same time. Those are still all over the target, so I'm still humble.

And why this one was kind of exciting (so far).

taylorce1 · April 8, 2014, 12:32 PM

Quote:

I haven't adjusted my scope yet, so that is an option.

Then you can just go shoot the same target again two more times for groups, assuming that you still have it. Then you don't have to overlay the papers.

reynolds357 · April 10, 2014, 09:02 PM

Taylor, I usually leave my targets up and my 10 shot group might get shot over a 15 day period.

hooligan1 · April 10, 2014, 09:30 PM

Well Reynolds hes shooting on a public range, and hes about 6" low so we will make scope correction and start over so no flyers leave page.He has to work on form but Im pretty sure he did in fact find his ONE.

reloader28 · April 11, 2014, 08:14 AM

You darn sure dont need a 10 shot group.
The ONLY one that counts is the first one (cold bore), then maybe a follow up shot.

I never understood why guys do 10 shot groups. What a complete waste.of bullets and powder. After the first 3 or 4 rounds your barrel is heating up so much that the group will start to open up.

I always do 3-4 shot groups. Then the barrel cools before I do it again. Then I'll repeat. Works great.

BTW, nice group.

old roper · April 11, 2014, 08:44 AM

Pretty hard on sporter barrel shooting 10 shot group. If you got good 3/5 shot groups next range trip shot it again and you want repeatable groups.

You want enough confidence in your reloads that if you have bad day you know that it's you and not your loads. If it's hunting rifle you may be more concerned first shot cold bore see how compare to other shots so for me shooting same target wouldn't tell me much. Don't get me wrong I've used same target but moved were I wanted next group.

Well good luck

FM12 · April 11, 2014, 09:29 AM

I have a 78 also and intend to try your recipe. Does this load seem to be rough on the rifle?

JefferS · April 11, 2014, 02:29 PM

hooligan1 and I did not see any signs of high pressure, and he has used a very similar recipe in the past. That's why I started where I did.

What I was really experimenting with (and didn't want to get off on that discussion yet until I had more data) was using once-fired brass (Winchester Super-X) from this specific gun and only neck sizing the case (RCBS). I know some people do this, so I thought I'd try.

I used an L.E. Wilson Case Length Headspace Gage to see if there was extra headspace. The gage showed no signs of the headspace lengthening over an unfired factory round, and indicated the case length still seemed within max SAAMI.

This is a little different that my normal full-length process, which I'll do on the twice-fired cases (which still show really no stretching according to the gauge, but I'm sure brass is moving around somewhere).

I only wish I had the same rounds tested before I floated the barrel just because I like data.

I'll be interested to know how it works in your 78.

Bart B. · April 11, 2014, 09:46 PM

Reloader28 comments:

Quote:

I never understood why guys do 10 shot groups. What a complete waste.of bullets and powder. After the first 3 or 4 rounds your barrel is heating up so much that the group will start to open up.

One reason why at least 10 shots per group is important is the statistical significance of it. A 3- or 4-shot group has about a 25% to 35% chance of representing where all shots will go. Best proof of that is all of several 3- or 4-shot groups are not within 10% of being the same size.

Good barrels properly fit to receivers will not change point of impact over several dozen shots fired 3 to 4 times a minute starting with the barrel cold and getting very, very hot later after shooting 20 to 30 shots. While some commercial factory barrels are pretty good. Rarely, if ever, are any of them properly fit to the receiver after it's face is squared up with the barrel's chamber axis. Barrels and receivers expand as they heat up and will press hard against each other any high spot on the receiver face; that tends to bend the barrel a tiny bit.

chiefr · April 11, 2014, 11:03 PM

You have developed a good load for your rifle, congrats.
My best results are with H414 and 4350 as #2.
Milsurps 06s: I stick with 4895.

April 6, 2014, 09:09 PM	#9
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	Pretty nice group for a Sportsman 78, and after a 10 shot group maybe youll have some concrete evidence that your mentor is a genuis __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

April 7, 2014, 07:36 AM	#11
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	You're doing well. That load is or has been about like that in over half a dozen different rifles I have worked on through the years. It is rare when they don't like it. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

April 8, 2014, 11:23 AM	#15
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	Nice shooting, it's hard to believe you can do that after Hooligan1 helped you out. I agree the group needs some verification, but I wouldn't shoot a 10 shot group. If you haven't changed the scope I'd go shoot a new 3 shot group and overlay the targets. Then if you want on another day you can shoot 3 shots again and overlay the target and mark holes again. I'd do this at least 3 times, so if you made the scope adjustments toss that group out and start over. With a .30-06 hunting rifle it is just a hard task to hold a 10 shot group in one day. IMO overlaying 3 shot groups shot on different days is a much better way to limit the shooter problems that come from being fatigued by recoil. If you can keep all 9 shots under 1.5" from POA then you have a pretty darn good shooting rifle to hunt with. __________________ NRA Life Member

April 10, 2014, 09:30 PM	#19
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	Well Reynolds hes shooting on a public range, and hes about 6" low so we will make scope correction and start over so no flyers leave page.He has to work on form but Im pretty sure he did in fact find his ONE. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

April 11, 2014, 08:44 AM	#21
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	Pretty hard on sporter barrel shooting 10 shot group. If you got good 3/5 shot groups next range trip shot it again and you want repeatable groups. You want enough confidence in your reloads that if you have bad day you know that it's you and not your loads. If it's hunting rifle you may be more concerned first shot cold bore see how compare to other shots so for me shooting same target wouldn't tell me much. Don't get me wrong I've used same target but moved were I wanted next group. Well good luck __________________ Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member

April 6, 2014, 04:03 PM	#2
obiwannabe Member Join Date: February 14, 2014 Posts: 40	Meh...not bad, I guess. I can still see three holes though. Keep working on it. Nice work.

April 6, 2014, 04:37 PM	#4
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	Good group. Now duplicate and bring it up to that 10 spot.

April 6, 2014, 04:51 PM	#5
Rattlehead Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 244	Very nice.

April 6, 2014, 05:20 PM	#6
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	Nice load there. IMr 4350 is always a great powder for the 06

April 6, 2014, 07:42 PM	#7
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	IMR 4350 is the powder for the 150 in the 06. Awesome group. Not being negative, but shoot a 10 shot group. I have rifles and loads that will shoot a one hole group in the midst of a few fliers. 3 shot groups provide valuable information, but they need more shots for verification.

April 7, 2014, 08:41 AM	#12
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	Very nice group. In the 80's I had a 700 BDL that shot very similar to your 78 using IMR4350 and 150 grn Sierra SBT's. I sold that rifle to get another.....don't make the same mistake as I did!

April 7, 2014, 12:38 PM	#14
kerreckt Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2011 Location: SE VA. Posts: 216	I use RL17 with 150gr and 180gr with good results. I shoot these from my 64 year old Remington 721. IMR 4350 and RL17 have a very similar burn rate. I get a bit higher velocity from the RL17 and I suspect lower pressure but have no way of testing so can't be positive of this. I think RL17 is often overlooked as a good 30.06 option.

April 10, 2014, 09:02 PM	#18
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Taylor, I usually leave my targets up and my 10 shot group might get shot over a 15 day period.

April 11, 2014, 08:14 AM	#20
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	You darn sure dont need a 10 shot group. The ONLY one that counts is the first one (cold bore), then maybe a follow up shot. I never understood why guys do 10 shot groups. What a complete waste.of bullets and powder. After the first 3 or 4 rounds your barrel is heating up so much that the group will start to open up. I always do 3-4 shot groups. Then the barrel cools before I do it again. Then I'll repeat. Works great. BTW, nice group.

April 11, 2014, 09:29 AM	#22
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	I have a 78 also and intend to try your recipe. Does this load seem to be rough on the rifle?

April 11, 2014, 02:29 PM	#23
JefferS Member Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Independence, MO Posts: 89	hooligan1 and I did not see any signs of high pressure, and he has used a very similar recipe in the past. That's why I started where I did. What I was really experimenting with (and didn't want to get off on that discussion yet until I had more data) was using once-fired brass (Winchester Super-X) from this specific gun and only neck sizing the case (RCBS). I know some people do this, so I thought I'd try. I used an L.E. Wilson Case Length Headspace Gage to see if there was extra headspace. The gage showed no signs of the headspace lengthening over an unfired factory round, and indicated the case length still seemed within max SAAMI. This is a little different that my normal full-length process, which I'll do on the twice-fired cases (which still show really no stretching according to the gauge, but I'm sure brass is moving around somewhere). I only wish I had the same rounds tested before I floated the barrel just because I like data. I'll be interested to know how it works in your 78. __________________ *Jeff*

April 11, 2014, 11:03 PM	#25
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	You have developed a good load for your rifle, congrats. My best results are with H414 and 4350 as #2. Milsurps 06s: I stick with 4895.