Predatory Invasive Specie Down.

[Hog Buster]

Hogdogs

Just the opposite problem where I’m at now. The coyotes and foxes eat my chickens, the cats just dine on the rats. Vermin control can be a balancing act.

[Old Grump]

One thing about living in the sticks. Hawks, Owls, Buzzards, Crows, Doves, Turkeys, Fox, Coyotes, Raccoons, Muskrat, Otter, Beaver, Possum, Rabbit, Ground Squirrels, Gray squirrels, etc. there isn't hardly any room for (Rattus norvegicus). We get a few but the last two, Big Norwegian rats, feeding on dropped bird feed had a taste for rat poison. If the predators don't get them and I don't shoot them they just die because of poor dietary choices and the poison is where the other wildlife can't get hold of it.

[grubbylabs]

When we live out of town we keep a few out side and feed a little so we don't have rodent problems but I shoot all the ones that don't belong at my place. We moved into town a few years back and have had to deal with neighbors that open bags of food up and dump it on the back porch. Animal control gave me a trap for a while and in one month we got rid of 18 cats.

[ripnbst]

In Oklahoma the Coyotes seem to keep the feral cats pretty controlled. Feral dogs is something different all together.

[22-rimfire]

I think that you should know the cats and dogs (pets) that visit your property. You can usually tell if they are strays.

I will say this with all seriousness... if you shot one of my pets, I would want to hurt you. Doesn't mean I would, but I would seriously consider it. Be careful what animals you choose to shoot.

[Art Eatman]

22-rimfire, the whole deal is cats and dogs that you DON'T know. Feral critters out on farms and ranches. Generally, this subject is not about stray cats and dogs around edge-of-town subdivisions.

[MLeake]

... I suspect 22-rimfire is responding to twins' post #20.

I have to admit, I had the same reaction as 22-rimfire did. Even the most responsible pet owner occasionally has one get over or under a fence, or off the leash. I used to own a Catahoula who had actually figured out how to chimney, IE he'd put his back against a tree near the fence, and walk up the fence and over the top...

We got rid of the tree when we figured out what he was doing.

Point is, if somebody had decided to shoot my dog (who was extremely friendly with people in general and kids in particular) just because he was loose, I think I'd have reacted very badly; hopefully not in a violent manner. But I rank people who abuse kids and dogs as the lowest of the low.

Luckily, on those occasions he did get out, the personalized dog tag with my phone number on it came in handy. Folks that found him figured out immediately that he was a big, friendly baby.

[SavageSniper]

By far the scariest moment that I have ever had when hunting game of the 4 legged kind was when I was about 16 and hunting rabbits in a very large clearcut (1000 acres + or-) when I heard dogs in the distance. At first I thought someone was hunting deer or something until over the top of the hill came a pack of "wild" dogs. They were headed straight at me. I had 2 rabbits in my vest so I guess they smelled the blood. I was armed with a single shot .22 and 2 very fast and adrenalin charged feet. I ran as fast as I could to the woodline where a friend had a permanent treestand. The dogs were right on me by then and had me treed. I killed 3 and wounded a 4th before they left. It was dusk by then and let me tell you people that was the longest 2 mile walk back to my house. I can only imagine what would happen if I was further out in the clearcut or if that treestand was not there.

[twins]

MLeake,
I don't set out to abuse any animals. If they're loose, and they don't threaten my kids or leave "surprises" on my property, I'm cool with it. If I talk to the owner and they continually let them "loose", then I have a problem. If people want to own pets, they need to be responsible and held accountable.

I define a feral "pet" as one that has no owner's tag and it is freely running through a neighborhood causing havoc.

[22-rimfire]

Twins said

Why the distinction between killing a "domesticated cat/dog" that got loose and a "feral" cat/dog? Bottom line, dogs/cats are predatory animals. Unless you're against killing all animals, all 4-legged creatures that steps on your property are fair-game IMO.

So what do you do when a pet continually prefers your yard to leave surprises? Shoot them?

Many pets do not have an "owners tag". The tag or license is not required in my state. Guess you shoot those too?

I suspect we would not get along.

[reloader28]

22rimfire
Around this country with all the livestock, if your pet dont stay where its supposed to on your own property, it generally never makes it home again. People here make their living with livestock and dont take kindly to "pets" wandering thru the pastures and/or chasing stock. That that will and has held up in any court. No matter if its chickens or beef.

I'm more lenient than some and will generally use a shotgun with traploads the first time. But after that, the pet gets buried. Most people around here just bury them right off the bat. However, the shotgun usually makes them decide to stay home (if they have a home to go to) even if the owner is to lazy to keep them there.

Here, if your animal is caught killing livestock and shot because of it, The pet owner not only loses his pet, but has to pay for the livestock the pet killed PLUS the offspring the livestock would have produced in 2 or 3 years. That can get very expensive.

If your so called pet is wandering around on the property that I paid many thousands of dollars for, you better believe YOU will have a problem if YOU cant keep control of him. If it has a collar and tag it makes it easier to notify the owner to come get the dead carcass off the property.

I'm not trying to be your or anyones enemy, but I'm stating a fact. Try to look at it from a livestock owners point of view. Thats where they get their paycheck for the year.

[Daryl]

Hog Buster,

I think it comes down to the old saying, "All things in moderation."

I won't kill a cat just to kill it, but I'll do it if it becomes a problem.

At one time, my mom had a lot of wild quail around her house. She noticed them disappearing, and didn't know why. I had my suspicions, but since her husband is a bigtime cat lover, I said nothing.

When the quail got few, my grandmother's chickens started disappearing (she lives next door to my mom); one per night, every night. I set a Havahart trap in an area most likely to get the offender, and had the culprit the next morning. Now, a few years later, the quail are back to their old numbers again.

As a note: there are still plenty of cats in her area. Many are pets that folks let roam, and some are truly feral. Most are not much of a problem, and help keep the mice, gophers, and rats down.

My MIL once had a bunch of barn cats, but the coyotes finally got them all. Now her lawn looks like it's been tilled from all the gophers digging things up. Obviously, coyotges are not as good at keeping gopher numbers in check near homes.



Daryl

[22-rimfire]

The pet or feral pet issue is a troubling issue for anyone that likes pets. One needs to make their decision with moderation and consideration for the feelings of others. The decisions are often final and you can't take them back.

What applies to a Montana rancher who has 1,000 acres in rural MT is different than any rules applied to wandering pets in a city or neighborhood. Both can certainly be a problem. Judgement and acting in moderation is the key.

[Art Eatman]

I grew up with cats and dogs as house pets. In my city years, I never gave thought to other folks' pets wandering through our yard, doing whatever they figured on doing. We took care of our pets and didn't worry about others'.

But my hostility toward strays is strictly rural, or, where I live now, almost wilderness. Whole different deal.

Back when I had a small ranch about five miles out of Austin, if I saw a dog in my pasture with a collar on, I didn't bother him. Any dog chasing a deer was a dead dog. But, normally, a single dog is not much of a problem.

We had a couple of pet house cats who mostly hung around the house and barns. But if I saw a stray cat in the pasture, I knew it was a throwaway, and if I let it live my bobwhite quail population would decline. The bobwhite belonged there; the cat did not.

There was a study done in Wisconsin, maybeso fifteen (?) years ago. A bunch of grad students in wildlife biology ran all over the state studying feral cats and their eating habits. Two conclusions: First, a feral cat would eat around 100 songbirds per year. Second, the feral cat population in the state was estimated at around a million. The math is left as an exercise for the student.

Near my wife's home in south Georgia, a neighbor regularly put food out for "her" cats. The mob number kept increasing. No squirrels, rabbits or songbirds. A neighbor complained to the animal shelter folks. They set out traps--and in a three month period captured 72 house cats in that one small area.

I guess that if there is a point to all this, it is that people are way too irresponsible about how they deal with "pets". It's all well and good to love and cherish a pet, but there is the same sort of responsibility as for a parent with a vandalizing kid.

[hogdogs]

If a neighbor comes to me asking about a "certain" cat, I will keep a lookout but I also tell them I don't normally make exceptions for loose cats.

First question after color and hair type is "What color collar and tag?" If a person keeps bells on there loose roaming cat, I will give the cat a few days to find way back to it's own house.

But the cats folks own are derived from a small variety of jungle cat from africa. Treat it like every other "exotic" pet and keep it indoors or leashed up!

I personally do not see anything cute about an invasive predator swiping my Florida State Bird right out of the air as it tries to defend the little offspring that fell from the nest on the first attempt at flight.

But on the other hand I have no issue with a native predator doing the same thing.

I only live on 5 acres but I want to keep the wildlife I have.

Art has seen the place and my loose yard dogs. They rarely ever make a squirrel kill but when they do, I snatch it away and feed it to the snake.

BTW, The squirrels are the grays which are also invasive specie and have really pushed our native fox squirrels right out to small little pockets of populations.

Brent

[twins]

So what do you do when a pet continually prefers your yard to leave surprises? Shoot them?

Many pets do not have an "owners tag". The tag or license is not required in my state. Guess you shoot those too?

I suspect we would not get along.

To answer your questions:
On the topic of pet surprises. If I talked to the owners and they disregard my concerns and not keep their pets indoor or leashed, yes, the pet will be worm food. I have the right to keep my property to my standard. The owners have the right to keep their pets on their property and the right to follow the law.

On the topic of owners tag. If a pet without owners tag comes on my property and is menacing (threatening to my kids or wildlife or leave surprises), same answer as above. If they're not menacing (ie, passing through), welcome.

On the topic of getting along. Just as long as you follow the laws and be a responsible pet owner, I see no problem why we can't get a long. If an owner cannot control their pet(s), they should not keep the pet(s).

+1 to Art & hogdogs responses

[hogdogs]

As for "cats vs. dogs"... I have seen far more starving stray dogs so I am convinced they ain't the best hunters... Also, I have different laws regarding dogs. They are considered to be private property (unlike loose cats) of the owner. If one threatens, people, dogs or "livestock", I will treat them the same as I do the feral cats which do not have such restrictions on them.

Currently, there is a male stray curr dog that has been living (noticed) on my place for 4-5 days... he hasn't opted to live on his own so now I have to decide if I rather put another "cull" thrown away deer huntin' dog on the public dole.

Brent

[22-rimfire]

Tis how feuds get started along with many other reasons. In the end, nobody is really right but what happens is that everybody ends up with a lot of dead dogs and cats by whatever means necessary to get the job done. Nobody is happy. I believe one has to be respectful of other people's property and feelings. You need to bend a little at times even if you don't really like the neighbor's dog, hanging out in your yard because you have other pets, the grass is greener, or they simply like the view better.

This type of thing does not apply only to pets, it also applies to chickens, ducks, pigs, cattle, and any other creature that wanders or flys onto somebody else's property. They don't know about property lines. The whole scenario can get rather testy between neighbors who otherwise have a civil and often friendly relationship.

But truly feral cats and dogs, I have no pity for.

[treg]

Hogdogs, your pics make me guilty on two counts of jealousy.

A) No tee-shirts and shorts yet, we still have snow on the ground.

B) It's illegal to kill stray / feral cats here.

[shortwave]

We took care of our pets and didn't worry about others.

Just think, if everyone had that attitude, there would never be a thread such as this.

For someone to get any pet and let it randomly run loose shows zero consideration/respect for their neighbors. Period! Doesn't matter to me if its a cat, dog, horse or bull.
I live in a very rural area and my thoughts and the way I deal with this whole situation mirrors Arts thoughts to a tee. I've had neighbors dogs get loose in which I've caught and taken home. Had one neighbors coon dog that broke its chain, got deep down in the woods and got the chain he was dragging wrapped around a tree. He bayed all day long in 90degree + weather, driving my dogs crazy all day long. When I got home from work, the wife was "on tilt"(she kept our dogs in the house all day but had to listen to them all day)..
I found the dog and as I approached him, it was evident this dog was dehydrated but had more than enough left in him to snarl and snap at me. After a couple minutes of talking to him I was able to get him untangled. We went to the garage,got a chain repair link and walked to where he lived. Nobody home so I re-chained him at his doghouse ,got him some water and left. Called neighbor later that evening informing him he needed to replace the old chain.

On the flip side of the coin, like many rural areas, this is a perfect area for inconsiderate, self centered, irresponsible, cowardly morons to dump their pets. The newness of their pet has worn off(like a little kid after Christmas that the newness of their present wears off and they throw the toy in the corner) and they dump them. These people aren't smart enough to realize and consider the years of responsibility of having a pet and don't have the guts to either find a good home for the unwanted pet, take it to a shelter or humanely/quickly kill it.
Soooo.... Being the POS they are they take this now unwanted pet out and drop it off for someone else to deal with :barf:

Again, not only is this animal abuse in its highest form cause the animal now has to fend for itself and in many cases in the winter, suffers a lengthy, torturous death of literally starving/freezing to death. What a way to go huh.

I've spoken to Animal Control several times at length about this and their response has always been "although they know there's a big problem out here, this is to vast an area to effectively control the problem".
They(AC) do the best they can do and I understand what they're saying.
I also understand what I was instructed to do and that was to shoot them.

It upsets me tremendously when I have to kill a stray but I'll continue till another solution comes along.

Again, a duty left to me by some idiot of society(putting it lightly).

[MLeake]

... as we have a few horses ourselves (Holsteiners, big ones, and on the expensive side too).

If a dog were molesting the horses, ideally I'd be able to figure out who owned it, and get the owner to deal with it up front. In a more acute case...
I have the luxury of not having any foals at the moment. A dog that gets too stupid with one of our 16 to 18 hand horses will probably get its head kicked off.

But, before that happened, I'd try to catch the dog. Odds are I'd have a gun on my hip, as I normally do, but my first line weapon would be a leash and slip collar; the gun would be a last resort.

I've caught loose dogs ranging from coon-hounds to pit bulls to mastiffs. Most weren't in our paddocks, but you get the idea. If it's feral, you won't get close enough to catch it. If it's a pet, in most cases, it will allow the approach. That's one tip-off.

As noted, I've had dogs get loose before. Not all that often, and despite my measures taken against it. (On one occasion, a neighbor let my dog out of his enclosure to play with her kid, while I was at work...) But my dogs are not deliberately allowed to run loose, nor are most of the dogs beloging to people I know.

In one case, a neighbor had an "underground fence." His dog was a large, unusually aggressive chocolate lab. That dog scared quite a few folks who didn't know about the underground fence, as he'd sprint right up to the property line, but he never posed an actual threat. Another neighbor had a 130lb German Shepherd who was so extremely-well trained that he would not step outside of the yard. "Charlie" used to run around his yard, unleashed and unfenced, all day. Luckily, nobody in our neighborhood back then was afraid of dogs.

I did have one neighbor who kept letting her dog run loose, in a rural neighborhood; it was smallish, maybe 30lbs, but high energy. For some reason, it kept wanting to get into our paddock. I let the neighbor know, but she insisted on letting the dog run loose. She and her husband both acknowledged that a horse might kill the dog, and if so, they'd be out of luck. Happily, that never happened.

So, yes, there are some dog owners out there who make me scratch my head. But there are a lot of cases of dogs that just manage to tunnel under or climb over fences, or slip through doors, etc. Anybody who has owned a pet (or for that matter raised a kid) knows that they can, on occasion, get past the best-laid barriers and plans.

[HeroHog]

I love my cats and they live INSIDE ONLY. They have collars, tags and shots and are spayed/neutered. I also have no problem killing feral kittens. We had some get in the roof of the building were staying and a few fell in between the walls. When I figured out where they were and cut the drywall and got them out, I took them outside and dispatched them. It would be more cruel to let them struggle to survive on their own than to put them down as far as I am concerned so I did what I think is best. If I caught the momma, she would have gone as well!

[markj]

I will say this with all seriousness... if you shot one of my pets, I would want to hurt you.

Everyone that loves animals feels this way, so to better protect them, please keep them off my place. I use a electric buried wire fencer to keep my pets in my 5 acres of land set aside just for their use. I have had other animals get on the place and try to harm mine or get at the livestock. under Iowa law I am able to shoot these animals with no legal repurcussions. So if a person gets their animal killed by letting it run about, well I for one would be ****** off to the max that someone let their animal loose and I had to deal with it.

2 sides to every story. lov the pet, keep it home and no worries. Last cat I shot was deep into the garbage bin, owner shoulda fed the thing and kept it home.

[cornbush]

Here, if your animal is caught killing livestock and shot because of it, The pet owner not only loses his pet, but has to pay for the livestock the pet killed PLUS the offspring the livestock would have produced in 2 or 3 years. That can get very expensive.

This also goes for wild game in most places, YOU are liable.
I shot a german shorthair one day while it was running a cow and calf elk, cow had to be shot later, calf died while the game warden and county sheriff were talking.
I could see the owner laughing with his buddy at what was going on.....so I stopped it. When he called the sheriff after threatening me, I waited and explained what happened. I also showed him the calf which had collapsed from blood loss due to bites from the dog and about a 3 foot loop of intestine hanging out. The cow was about 200 yards away laying down with less severe wounds but totally exhausted. About this time the game warden showed up. The dogs owner was ranting and raving about having me arrested. The warden went and talked with the sheriff and looked over the critters, the calf had died. They came back and told the owner he could pick up his dead dog and leave quietly, or keep making a scene and be arrested. The charges he would be facing were 1 count poaching, 2 counts harassment of wildlife, 2 counts wanton destruction of wildlife, and animal at large.
Sounds pretty harsh, but people's loose animals, strays and true ferals are a big problem in that area.

Would I have shot it if the owner was making an attempt to remedy the situation.....no. Would I do it again..... yes. I would also not hold any ill will if it was my dog doing the damage and someone else did the same thing.

[Old Grump]

In the middle of farm country and neighbors have young stock in the spring. Coyotes are bad enough but when a dog pack goes after lambs, kids and piglets they kill for the killing, not for the food. They get shot on sight.

I trained my dogs not to leave the property and when we were off the property they were trained not to chase livestock or deer. If you can't train your dog to do that you shouldn't be allowed to have a dog.