Ferguson Rifle Replica?

Bluesss · March 7, 2011, 01:13 AM

Im new here and dont really know much about guns but one of my dads ex girlfriends gave this to me a couple of years ago and im trying to see what it is and what it could be worth

inscribed on the top of the barrel is "In memory of Virgina Sal - Killed at Kings Mountian S.C. October 7, 1780"

any information would be great

thanks,
Nick

Rifleman1776 · March 7, 2011, 09:34 AM

Even a recent made replica would attract a lot of interest among both shooters and collectors. Yours looks to have been handled roughly and the rear sight looks way to modern for a Fergie.
Someone with knowledge of the Fergie would have to inspect it in person to evaluate the quality of the build. From the marks, it is possible some of the parts were old or original.
Whatever, you got a great gift. Do have it looked at by someone with real knowledge. Lucky you.
As to dollar value, impossibe, for me, at least, to even venture a guess.
If you want to sell, contact Track of the Wolf. They will give you a price (not retail) they will buy it for.

napp · March 7, 2011, 09:43 AM

I can't offer any comments on the rifle; but I did find an interesting read concerning the man himself. Included in the article is an explanation of who Virginia Sal was; and the part she played in his last 24 hours of life. http://www.silverwhistle.co.uk/lobsters/ferguson.html

Fingers McGee · March 7, 2011, 01:19 PM

Replicas of the Ferguson rifle were built by Narragansett Arms of Indianapolis, back in the 90s IIRC. Total production was 250, and the price at the time was between $1K and $2K per - i think. They were very well made and true to the original. They were nicely finished, with all the correct proof marks; but had a rather flimsy cleaning rod. Shoots a 65 caliber round ball. And came with a rather long and extremely nasty looking bayonet.

Oh, yeah. The rear sight on this one is the correct rear sight.

I have no idea what current value would be; but I'm sure it would be in the multiple thousands range.

Col. Mosby · March 8, 2011, 02:56 PM

Sir,
Go to www.historicaltrekking.com and post this same info. on the message board. You will find a number of folks who will be willing to help you with your questions.
Regards.
Larry

Rigger Mortis · June 6, 2014, 05:32 PM

Ferguson Rifle Replica

This is my first attempt at replying so please bear with me.
I believe this Ferguson Rifle was made in England in the mid 1980’s.
The gentleman who made the rifle had his workshop at Barnwell near Peterborough England, Later moving to the U.S.A. in approximately 1988. If I remember correctly he planned to make 100 of this example plus other variations. Unfortunately I cannot remember his name.

Marks on the barrel are:-

The “PP” is for Pilgrim Pieces the maker of the gun.

The “Crown over PF” is a copy of Patrick Ferguson‘s personal inspection mark.

“Crown over BP” is the black powder proof mark of the Birmingham Proof House. Somewhere there should be “Black powder only” stamped on the barrel.

I hope that this is of some help.

g.willikers · June 6, 2014, 05:49 PM

Did anyone mention that the Ferguson rifle was significant because it was a breech loader?

**4V50 Gary** · June 7, 2014, 09:42 AM

The knob on the handle isn't quite right. I don't think the Ferguson's is canted. That screw by the cock isn't right either. It's supposed to be the other way (from left side of the stock to right toward the lockplate). Probably worth about $4k.

jeager106 · June 7, 2014, 11:39 AM

WOW!

Thank you for posting the pictures of an historic rifle, unique, and ultra modern in it's day.
It's hard to imagine someone giving it away.
Wish I had that rifle.
What a nice piece.

James K · June 7, 2014, 12:42 PM

I had heard of those repros but that is the first one I have ever "seen", even in pictures. Very nice and I am sure the OP is grateful for the information, as am I.

Jim

Colt46 · June 7, 2014, 01:02 PM

Even the repro's are so rare it's a pretty significant thing for any collector.

Jim Watson · June 7, 2014, 01:18 PM

Gary, I found a picture of an original Ferguson on a Christies auction and the screw head was visible just in front of the cock. I could not tell if the lever handle was canted, the picture was at an artsy odd angle.

Hawg · June 7, 2014, 02:20 PM

The screw is correct. This is a pic of an original in London's National Army Museum.

**4V50 Gary** · June 7, 2014, 02:57 PM

OK, I stand corrected.

Captainkirk · June 7, 2014, 10:12 PM

I have never even SEEN a repro before this. Amazing, remarkable repro of a truly historic firearm!

**4V50 Gary** · June 8, 2014, 08:13 AM

Note in the image that Hawg posted the slight beavertail on the shadow line around the lock.

James K · June 8, 2014, 08:33 PM

It was a pretty good idea, but with the machinery of the time, manufacture must have been darned expensive, plus the guns did clog up pretty quickly.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · June 8, 2014, 08:50 PM

Now that you mentioned time, here's my all time favorite article by Lance Klein on the Ferguson. http://www.muzzleblasts.com/archives.../mbo51-1.shtml

Captainkirk · June 10, 2014, 10:24 PM

That was a fascinating read, especially to those of us with some historical knowledge of the firearm and the role it might have played if put into widespread use!

**4V50 Gary** · June 10, 2014, 11:56 PM

Best book I've found on Patrick Ferguson and his rifle:

Every Insult and Indignity

March 7, 2011, 01:13 AM	#1
Bluesss Junior Member Join Date: March 7, 2011 Posts: 1	Ferguson Rifle Replica? Im new here and dont really know much about guns but one of my dads ex girlfriends gave this to me a couple of years ago and im trying to see what it is and what it could be worth inscribed on the top of the barrel is "In memory of Virgina Sal - Killed at Kings Mountian S.C. October 7, 1780" any information would be great thanks, Nick Last edited by Bluesss; March 7, 2011 at 01:33 AM.

March 7, 2011, 09:43 AM	#3
napp Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Location: Georgia Posts: 152	I can't offer any comments on the rifle; but I did find an interesting read concerning the man himself. Included in the article is an explanation of who Virginia Sal was; and the part she played in his last 24 hours of life. http://www.silverwhistle.co.uk/lobsters/ferguson.html __________________ napp

March 7, 2011, 01:19 PM	#4
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Replicas of the Ferguson rifle were built by Narragansett Arms of Indianapolis, back in the 90s IIRC. Total production was 250, and the price at the time was between $1K and $2K per - i think. They were very well made and true to the original. They were nicely finished, with all the correct proof marks; but had a rather flimsy cleaning rod. Shoots a 65 caliber round ball. And came with a rather long and extremely nasty looking bayonet. Oh, yeah. The rear sight on this one is the correct rear sight. I have no idea what current value would be; but I'm sure it would be in the multiple thousands range. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce Last edited by Fingers McGee; March 7, 2011 at 02:14 PM.

March 8, 2011, 02:56 PM	#5
Col. Mosby Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Location: Edinburg, Va. Posts: 74	Ferguson Rifle Rero. Sir, Go to www.historicaltrekking.com and post this same info. on the message board. You will find a number of folks who will be willing to help you with your questions. Regards. Larry

June 6, 2014, 05:32 PM	#6
Rigger Mortis Junior Member Join Date: June 6, 2014 Location: Peterborough England Posts: 1	Ferguson Rifle Replica? Ferguson Rifle Replica This is my first attempt at replying so please bear with me. I believe this Ferguson Rifle was made in England in the mid 1980’s. The gentleman who made the rifle had his workshop at Barnwell near Peterborough England, Later moving to the U.S.A. in approximately 1988. If I remember correctly he planned to make 100 of this example plus other variations. Unfortunately I cannot remember his name. Marks on the barrel are:- The “PP” is for Pilgrim Pieces the maker of the gun. The “Crown over PF” is a copy of Patrick Ferguson‘s personal inspection mark. “Crown over BP” is the black powder proof mark of the Birmingham Proof House. Somewhere there should be “Black powder only” stamped on the barrel. I hope that this is of some help. Last edited by Rigger Mortis; June 6, 2014 at 05:37 PM.

March 7, 2011, 09:34 AM	#2
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Even a recent made replica would attract a lot of interest among both shooters and collectors. Yours looks to have been handled roughly and the rear sight looks way to modern for a Fergie. Someone with knowledge of the Fergie would have to inspect it in person to evaluate the quality of the build. From the marks, it is possible some of the parts were old or original. Whatever, you got a great gift. Do have it looked at by someone with real knowledge. Lucky you. As to dollar value, impossibe, for me, at least, to even venture a guess. If you want to sell, contact Track of the Wolf. They will give you a price (not retail) they will buy it for.

June 6, 2014, 05:49 PM	#7
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Did anyone mention that the Ferguson rifle was significant because it was a breech loader? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 7, 2014, 09:42 AM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	The knob on the handle isn't quite right. I don't think the Ferguson's is canted. That screw by the cock isn't right either. It's supposed to be the other way (from left side of the stock to right toward the lockplate). Probably worth about $4k. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

June 7, 2014, 11:39 AM	#9
jeager106 Junior member Join Date: November 24, 2006 Location: N.E. Oh. Posts: 527	WOW! Thank you for posting the pictures of an historic rifle, unique, and ultra modern in it's day. It's hard to imagine someone giving it away. Wish I had that rifle. What a nice piece.

June 7, 2014, 12:42 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I had heard of those repros but that is the first one I have ever "seen", even in pictures. Very nice and I am sure the OP is grateful for the information, as am I. Jim

June 7, 2014, 01:02 PM	#11
Colt46 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: Campbell Ca Posts: 1,090	Ultimate cool factor Even the repro's are so rare it's a pretty significant thing for any collector.

June 7, 2014, 01:18 PM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,528	Gary, I found a picture of an original Ferguson on a Christies auction and the screw head was visible just in front of the cock. I could not tell if the lever handle was canted, the picture was at an artsy odd angle.

June 7, 2014, 02:20 PM	#13
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The screw is correct. This is a pic of an original in London's National Army Museum.

June 7, 2014, 02:57 PM	#14
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	OK, I stand corrected. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

June 7, 2014, 10:12 PM	#15
Captainkirk Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2012 Posts: 144	I have never even SEEN a repro before this. Amazing, remarkable repro of a truly historic firearm! __________________ "You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

June 8, 2014, 08:13 AM	#16
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	Note in the image that Hawg posted the slight beavertail on the shadow line around the lock. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

June 8, 2014, 08:33 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It was a pretty good idea, but with the machinery of the time, manufacture must have been darned expensive, plus the guns did clog up pretty quickly. Jim

June 8, 2014, 08:50 PM	#18
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	Now that you mentioned time, here's my all time favorite article by Lance Klein on the Ferguson. http://www.muzzleblasts.com/archives.../mbo51-1.shtml __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

June 10, 2014, 10:24 PM	#19
Captainkirk Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2012 Posts: 144	That was a fascinating read, especially to those of us with some historical knowledge of the firearm and the role it might have played if put into widespread use! __________________ "You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

June 10, 2014, 11:56 PM	#20
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	Best book I've found on Patrick Ferguson and his rifle: Every Insult and Indignity __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

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