Hornady L & L progressive-seating question

tonyd · January 26, 2009, 08:36 PM

I just started using a Hornady Lock and Load progressive with 45 ACP shellplate. The press works fine except for the seating depth variations. The bullets seat from 1.260 out to 1.283. I get about an even distribution of depths from short (below 2.72),
(clustered around 1.273 to 1.276) and (2.80 or better)--given that spread it does not seem likely that it is ram presssure/technique/ etc. I bottom out uniformly every time I seat and taper crimp. I checked all primers and they are seated flush. Brass is mixed range pick ups and I checked the brands on the three groups of seating depths and all brands are pretty well represented so do not think it is a brass issue--all brands show uneven seating depths.

I would not think that this much variation is normal--have an old single stage and a CH four station and they are really uniform compared to the Hornady Progressive.

Any suggestions and/or thoughts would be appreciated

Tony in Seattle

Doc K · January 26, 2009, 10:24 PM

I had the same problem and I called Hornady tech support. (That's what I'd recommend.)

If you're casting your own bullets, I bet you need to size 'em. That would probably fix the problem.

Variations in the shoulder diameter on the bullet will mess with OAL.

bear300us · January 27, 2009, 08:31 PM

I had the same problem an finally figured out that the shell plate has to be full when you make your adjustments.try that

nass · January 27, 2009, 09:20 PM

What seating die and bullets are you using? If Hornady, try the other seating stem profile for the bullets you are using... Take the die apart by removing the spring lock ring, use the other floating stem that came in the box.

I use the flat seating stem for everything. Better than the concave one that came in the die to start with.

DaveInGA · January 27, 2009, 11:47 PM

Since you're loading pistol bullets, it's likely to be the type of seating stem you're using is not matching up well with your bullets causing the variation. Check your seating stem and get one that matches up better with the bullets you're loading.

Regards,

Dave

DaveInGA · January 27, 2009, 11:49 PM

If you're measuring the over all length using a set of calipers and you're reloading rifle cartridges, you need to get a measuring device that measures on the ogive of the bullet, rather than measuring the tip.

The advice about filling the shellplate is also good advice.

Regards,

Dave

robctwo · January 28, 2009, 12:50 AM

I loaded 1,000 lead swc 155 gr .45 acp on my LnL today. All lengths were the same. I'm using RCBS die, with the swc seating die. The RCBS has both swc and rn seating dies. It would help if I knew what type of dies and bullets you are using.

The 1.26-1.28 variation is odd. I'm not normally loading anything over 1.25.

tonyd · January 28, 2009, 05:42 PM

Tlhanks for the suggestions--will look at seating die stem and also try filling shell plate first--assume you mean a case in every station? Was using Wichester 230gr rn Jacketed bullets with Hornady dies.
Spoke with Hornady tech guy and he offered the following regarding OAL variation:
1. Inconsistent bullet length--primarily from tip to point in ogive where it engages the rifling. Suggested I measure bullet length which will not really give me that dimension (do not have the comparator or whatever it is to do that)--I did find up to 10 thous difference and segregated the bullets into three general length groups and even though that was not really the measurement needed it did in fact result in pretty uniform seating depths--much better than before. Within each length group there was only about 2 thous variation. learly that was part of the problem--inconsistent nose dimensions which, oddly enough, were pretty much consistent with bullet OAL variations.

2. Especailly with mixed range brass the shellholder grabs the base groove a bit differently--said that even happens with new same make brass to some extent.

3. Brass thickness--did not really go into that at all--just tossed it out as a variable.

I would think that seating stem profile would not be an issue inasmuch as it should strike the bullet nose the same way each time regardless of contour?--or not?

OAL--I load out to 2.75--as per Lyman Manual and that length feeds fine in my Kimber with those bullets.

thanks again

Tony in Seattle

(despite being on the dreaded "Left Coast",
has excellent, reasonably priced shooting facilities all over the place--was pleasantly suprised when I retired here from Denver)

tonyd · January 28, 2009, 05:54 PM

CORRECTION--am using Lyman dies! One last thing--maybe I should try a flat nose seating stem--this would mean that the variation in ogive dimension would not make much difference because only the tip of the bullet will be touching the flat seating die? Or would the lack of a concave surface on seating die stem result in off-center seating because the bullet tends to move around as it bears on the samll point of contact with the flat stem?
Will try the full plate fix first.

Tony

BigJakeJ1s · January 28, 2009, 10:09 PM

Seating depth is only critical when you are trying to ensure a certain relationship between the chambered round and the start of the rifling in the barrel. Upon firing, the bullet ogive is what first contacts the rifling, not the bullet tip. So it is the relative seating depth of (or cartridge overall length to) the ogive that is important, not the tip. If your cartridges have differing lengths to the tip, but the same length to the ogive, you are good to go.

I would not use a flat seating stem unless the bullet had a flat nose (round nose flat point or wad-cutter or semi-wad-cutter).

Andy

January 26, 2009, 08:36 PM	#1
tonyd Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 3	Hornady L & L progressive-seating question I just started using a Hornady Lock and Load progressive with 45 ACP shellplate. The press works fine except for the seating depth variations. The bullets seat from 1.260 out to 1.283. I get about an even distribution of depths from short (below 2.72), (clustered around 1.273 to 1.276) and (2.80 or better)--given that spread it does not seem likely that it is ram presssure/technique/ etc. I bottom out uniformly every time I seat and taper crimp. I checked all primers and they are seated flush. Brass is mixed range pick ups and I checked the brands on the three groups of seating depths and all brands are pretty well represented so do not think it is a brass issue--all brands show uneven seating depths. I would not think that this much variation is normal--have an old single stage and a CH four station and they are really uniform compared to the Hornady Progressive. Any suggestions and/or thoughts would be appreciated Tony in Seattle

January 27, 2009, 09:20 PM	#4
nass Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 281	What seating die and bullets are you using? If Hornady, try the other seating stem profile for the bullets you are using... Take the die apart by removing the spring lock ring, use the other floating stem that came in the box. I use the flat seating stem for everything. Better than the concave one that came in the die to start with. __________________ My $0.02

January 28, 2009, 05:42 PM	#8
tonyd Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 3	More info on Hornady L&L seating depth Tlhanks for the suggestions--will look at seating die stem and also try filling shell plate first--assume you mean a case in every station? Was using Wichester 230gr rn Jacketed bullets with Hornady dies. Spoke with Hornady tech guy and he offered the following regarding OAL variation: 1. Inconsistent bullet length--primarily from tip to point in ogive where it engages the rifling. Suggested I measure bullet length which will not really give me that dimension (do not have the comparator or whatever it is to do that)--I did find up to 10 thous difference and segregated the bullets into three general length groups and even though that was not really the measurement needed it did in fact result in pretty uniform seating depths--much better than before. Within each length group there was only about 2 thous variation. learly that was part of the problem--inconsistent nose dimensions which, oddly enough, were pretty much consistent with bullet OAL variations. 2. Especailly with mixed range brass the shellholder grabs the base groove a bit differently--said that even happens with new same make brass to some extent. 3. Brass thickness--did not really go into that at all--just tossed it out as a variable. I would think that seating stem profile would not be an issue inasmuch as it should strike the bullet nose the same way each time regardless of contour?--or not? OAL--I load out to 2.75--as per Lyman Manual and that length feeds fine in my Kimber with those bullets. thanks again Tony in Seattle (despite being on the dreaded "Left Coast", has excellent, reasonably priced shooting facilities all over the place--was pleasantly suprised when I retired here from Denver)

January 28, 2009, 05:54 PM	#9
tonyd Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 3	Hornady OAL question CORRECTION--am using Lyman dies! One last thing--maybe I should try a flat nose seating stem--this would mean that the variation in ogive dimension would not make much difference because only the tip of the bullet will be touching the flat seating die? Or would the lack of a concave surface on seating die stem result in off-center seating because the bullet tends to move around as it bears on the samll point of contact with the flat stem? Will try the full plate fix first. Tony

January 26, 2009, 10:24 PM	#2
Doc K Junior Member Join Date: November 3, 2008 Posts: 12	I had the same problem and I called Hornady tech support. (That's what I'd recommend.) If you're casting your own bullets, I bet you need to size 'em. That would probably fix the problem. Variations in the shoulder diameter on the bullet will mess with OAL.

January 27, 2009, 08:31 PM	#3
bear300us Member Join Date: May 26, 2008 Location: metro detroit Posts: 49	I had the same problem an finally figured out that the shell plate has to be full when you make your adjustments.try that

January 27, 2009, 11:47 PM	#5
DaveInGA Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2005 Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 132	Since you're loading pistol bullets, it's likely to be the type of seating stem you're using is not matching up well with your bullets causing the variation. Check your seating stem and get one that matches up better with the bullets you're loading. Regards, Dave

January 27, 2009, 11:49 PM	#6
DaveInGA Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2005 Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 132	If you're measuring the over all length using a set of calipers and you're reloading rifle cartridges, you need to get a measuring device that measures on the ogive of the bullet, rather than measuring the tip. The advice about filling the shellplate is also good advice. Regards, Dave

January 28, 2009, 12:50 AM	#7
robctwo Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2002 Location: Albany, Oregon Posts: 644	I loaded 1,000 lead swc 155 gr .45 acp on my LnL today. All lengths were the same. I'm using RCBS die, with the swc seating die. The RCBS has both swc and rn seating dies. It would help if I knew what type of dies and bullets you are using. The 1.26-1.28 variation is odd. I'm not normally loading anything over 1.25.

January 28, 2009, 10:09 PM	#10
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	Seating depth is only critical when you are trying to ensure a certain relationship between the chambered round and the start of the rifling in the barrel. Upon firing, the bullet ogive is what first contacts the rifling, not the bullet tip. So it is the relative seating depth of (or cartridge overall length to) the ogive that is important, not the tip. If your cartridges have differing lengths to the tip, but the same length to the ogive, you are good to go. I would not use a flat seating stem unless the bullet had a flat nose (round nose flat point or wad-cutter or semi-wad-cutter). Andy