Fatal Police Chase, who's fault?

TheeBadOne · September 26, 2005, 05:05 PM

Man fleeing Brooklyn Park police killed by car

A man died Saturday after being struck by a car while fleeing Brooklyn Park police.

Officers said that the man ran after being stopped about 4 a.m. Saturday for a traffic violation and while officers were attempting to check his identity. He made his way through a residential area and jumped a fence before being struck by a car while attempting to cross West Broadway Avenue, police said.

The car's driver was arrested but was released pending an investigation, said Brooklyn Park Police Sgt. Marcus Erickson.

The dead man's name had not been released as of Saturday night.

link
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You'd think the Police would know better than to get involved in a dangerous pursuit over a minor infraction. I know that usually they don't end this bad, as most end with the out of breath suspect collapsing from exhaustion, or at most getting a few scrapes from being tackled, but hey.
Guess it's just another "Pursuit" death to be laid at the feet of "The Police"....

jcoiii · September 26, 2005, 05:13 PM

Who's fault? Well, in reality it's the perp's fault for running into traffic without looking both ways. In the court room, who's fault? I can almost guarantee the local PD will be paying this moron's relatives a nice settlement.

Capt. Charlie · September 26, 2005, 05:19 PM

Sad outcome, but the choice to run was his, along with the consequences. Now if the man were running from a dog or jealous husband, the headlines would've read "man dies after being hit by car" with no mention of the circumstances.

wayneinFL · September 26, 2005, 05:24 PM

Fleeing bad guy's fault.

Quote:

The car's driver was arrested

I wonder why?

**Rich Lucibella** · September 26, 2005, 05:30 PM

TBO-
Lawful stop. Suspect Runs. Suspect Runs into 4,000 LB Weapon.
I'm moving this one to Training and Tactics since the only issue seems to be the importance of lOOking before running into traffic; or perhaps, the importance of defensive driving. There isn't a whiff of Legal or Political to it.

All yours, Denny.

If the cops were carrying wheel guns, you may wish to pass it over to the Revolver Forum. Tam's should really appreciate that.
Rich

jcoiii · September 27, 2005, 10:08 AM

We talked at length about this type of situation at the academy. The argument from the family will be, "If they hadn't chased him, he'd be ok now." On further reflection, I believe that what we actually talked about was if an innocent was hurt/killed during a chase. So maybe the PD will be ok afterall.

Derius_T · September 27, 2005, 10:17 AM

I only have one question.....why did they arrest the driver who hit the fleeing BG? That doesn't seem right....

mete · September 27, 2005, 10:18 AM

It depends on color of individual and many other things .In the Howard Beach NY incident an individual [perhaps on drugs] was being chased by neighborhood youths , ran onto a highway at night and was killed by a car.He was black chased by whites the whites were given the most severe punishments !!

Derius_T · September 27, 2005, 10:28 AM

I dunno...I'd hate to try to turn this into a racial thing....

Theres enough of that ignorant crap already...

MidKnight · September 27, 2005, 10:55 AM

Yeah, there's nothing about race in this story... as well there shouldn't be.

Clearly it's the fault of the BG. He ran. What's he expect? To NOT be chased? Then he ran out in front of a car further proving his brilliance.

Now as far as the driver of the car and why he was arrested: it doesn't seem right to us. However, we're only getting part of the story. Maybe that guy had had a little to drink earlier. Or perhaps he was going a bit fast. These are all things that in the eye of the law can make the driver responsible for the accident. This IIRC is because you could have avoided it by obeying the law. If the investigation proves that the accident was unavoidable under normal circumstances, then he'll be free to go.

Capt. Charlie · September 27, 2005, 12:07 PM

Without more info, this is just a guess mind you, but I suspect the driver was detained, not arrested, for investigation of vehicular homicide. That would be SOP in that situation.

eka · September 27, 2005, 07:37 PM

"I'm moving this one to Training and Tactics since the only issue seems to be the importance of lOOking before running into traffic; or perhaps, the importance of defensive driving. There isn't a whiff of Legal or Political to it.

All yours, Denny. If the cops were carrying wheel guns, you may wish to pass it over to the Revolver Forum. Tam's should really appreciate that."

I can see how one would have trouble with where this fits, but I think it was made clear by these comments:

"You'd think the Police would know better than to get involved in a dangerous pursuit over a minor infraction."

"Guess it's just another "Pursuit" death to be laid at the feet of "The Police".... "

This is obviously just another attempt to take a swing at the police while demonstrating ones ignorance regarding police pursuit policy and attempting to ignore that the suspect was wrong in his actions. That's pretty pathetic!

k9lwt · September 27, 2005, 08:34 PM

You'd think the Police would know better than to get involved in a dangerous pursuit over a minor infraction. I know that usually they don't end this bad, as most end with the out of breath suspect collapsing from exhaustion, or at most getting a few scrapes from being tackled, but hey.
Guess it's just another "Pursuit" death to be laid at the feet of "The Police"....

What are you talking about? How do you know that this is a minor infraction? It was my understanding that the police were trying to verify the identify of the person that subsequently ran into a moving vehicle. He wasn't training for a marathon, he was running for a reason. Why would you assume that the police made a mistake in chasing someone that fled while they were trying to verify his identity? It's sad that anyone would assume that the police did anything wrong. It's even more sad for you people that say this is racially motivated.

As far as the driver goes, he was arrested for a reason. People don't just get arrested for no reason. I feel bad that the fleeing subject died, but unfortunately it's his fault.

Capt. Charlie · September 27, 2005, 09:35 PM

Uh, guys? TheeBadOne IS a cop, and the quotes are simply dripping with sarcasm.

John Ringo · September 28, 2005, 10:08 AM

Sounds like the guy was at fault.

Sounds silly if a LEO can't chase after someone without getting blamed for some injury sustained by a clumsy criminal.

Coop de Ville · September 28, 2005, 10:18 AM

Sadly, where I work, if someone gets hurt when I chase them it's my fault (Dept.'s fault).

k9lwt · September 29, 2005, 05:53 PM

Thanks Capt, my mistake.

RsqVet · September 29, 2005, 06:09 PM

Call me cold but I hope the guys estate has money to pay for the poor motorist's damaged vehicle and someone for them to talk to becuse it takes a heck of a toll on the person behind the wheel even if they know it's not their fault.

spacemanspiff · September 29, 2005, 06:09 PM

nah its the cops fault. they should have known better to oppress the poor folks who cant get no job and have to commit crimes. i mean, if that poor guy who ran wasnt committing crimes his family wouldnt have a roof over their heads or food on the table.

john in jax · September 29, 2005, 07:41 PM

Stupid perp's fault, he made more than one bad decision/choice that night and one of them got him killed.

blackmind · September 29, 2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Call me cold but I hope the guys estate has money to pay for the poor motorist's damaged vehicle and someone for them to talk to becuse it takes a heck of a toll on the person behind the wheel even if they know it's not their fault.

Call ME cold, but if someone ran into my car's path and ended up crunched to death because he was a criminal fleeing from the police, I wouldn't shed a single tear, and I would sleep soundly that very night. Screw him. He punched his OWN ticket, as a consequence of his OWN misdeeds.

Am I uncompassionate?

HELL no.

I just reserve my compassion for those who deserve it!

-blackmind

RsqVet · September 30, 2005, 04:24 PM

Blackmind, yes I agree with you, but that is an easy position to be in when you are removed from the situation, now imagine that you are a 19 year old kid, not very worldly and you splat some one, blood, guts, cops everywhere --- you can KNOW in your mind it's not your fault, you can HEAR when the cops, family and all that say it's not your fault, it still screws you up short term at best and takes it's toll on you.

Saw if first hand, dumb butt known for his stunts and showing off on his crotch rocket lost it compleatly in a curve, witnesses reported he had been up in the air doing a wheelie at about 80 --- bought it head on into the front of a VW jetta --- he was DOA, put my fingers in some part of his brain doing inital acessment, felt bad till I saw the kit who hit him who I pray is over that bad scene by now (number of years latter) but who the hell knows --- It's hard to see especally when you did't ask for it or expect it.

Jack Malloy · October 3, 2005, 08:53 PM

You blame the moron who decided to run from the police.
In our area a stupid criminal got shot following a police chase. Of course some local media types who dont know anything about law enforcement, tactics or public safety went around going on and on about how the career petty criminal had been "murdered" by "dirty" cops. He kept babbling about how they shot the guy twice. I guess he gets his concepts of gunfighting tactcs from reruns of Gunsmoke or Mannix....

I feel he would have had a different opinion had his wife been killed in a head on collission because some scumbag decided to try and outrun John Law.

One of my friends who spent 30 years in LE once told me that the only time he had to draw his weapon in the line of duty, he was halfway tempted to use it upon himself as he knew that he would get crucified in the media and sued by the perp.

tanksoldier · October 4, 2005, 02:55 AM

I guess white cops can only chase white perps, black cops black perps... patrol cruisers will have to be 15 pax vans so we can have one each of white, black, asian, native american and whatever else just in case they run into a suspect of that ethnicity.

Quote:

It depends on color of individual and many other things .In the Howard Beach NY incident an individual [perhaps on drugs] was being chased by neighborhood youths , ran onto a highway at night and was killed by a car.He was black chased by whites the whites were given the most severe punishments !!

CPTAUSRET · October 4, 2005, 02:58 AM

You run from the police, the consequences (of your actions) lie with you.

Terry

September 26, 2005, 05:05 PM	#1
TheeBadOne Junior member Join Date: January 12, 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,191	Fatal Police Chase, who's fault? Man fleeing Brooklyn Park police killed by car A man died Saturday after being struck by a car while fleeing Brooklyn Park police. Officers said that the man ran after being stopped about 4 a.m. Saturday for a traffic violation and while officers were attempting to check his identity. He made his way through a residential area and jumped a fence before being struck by a car while attempting to cross West Broadway Avenue, police said. The car's driver was arrested but was released pending an investigation, said Brooklyn Park Police Sgt. Marcus Erickson. The dead man's name had not been released as of Saturday night. link ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You'd think the Police would know better than to get involved in a dangerous pursuit over a minor infraction. I know that usually they don't end this bad, as most end with the out of breath suspect collapsing from exhaustion, or at most getting a few scrapes from being tackled, but hey. Guess it's just another "Pursuit" death to be laid at the feet of "The Police"....

September 26, 2005, 05:13 PM	#2
jcoiii Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2002 Location: TN Posts: 556	Who's fault? Well, in reality it's the perp's fault for running into traffic without looking both ways. In the court room, who's fault? I can almost guarantee the local PD will be paying this moron's relatives a nice settlement. __________________ Truth knows no political correctness. I do not aim with my hand.......

September 26, 2005, 05:19 PM	#3
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	Sad outcome, but the choice to run was his, along with the consequences. Now if the man were running from a dog or jealous husband, the headlines would've read "man dies after being hit by car" with no mention of the circumstances. __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

September 26, 2005, 05:30 PM	#5
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	TBO- Lawful stop. Suspect Runs. Suspect Runs into 4,000 LB Weapon. I'm moving this one to Training and Tactics since the only issue seems to be the importance of lOOking before running into traffic; or perhaps, the importance of defensive driving. There isn't a whiff of Legal or Political to it. All yours, Denny. If the cops were carrying wheel guns, you may wish to pass it over to the Revolver Forum. Tam's should really appreciate that. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

September 27, 2005, 10:08 AM	#6
jcoiii Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2002 Location: TN Posts: 556	We talked at length about this type of situation at the academy. The argument from the family will be, "If they hadn't chased him, he'd be ok now." On further reflection, I believe that what we actually talked about was if an innocent was hurt/killed during a chase. So maybe the PD will be ok afterall. __________________ Truth knows no political correctness. I do not aim with my hand.......

September 27, 2005, 10:17 AM	#7
Derius_T Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: South West OHIO (boondocks) Posts: 1,337	I only have one question.....why did they arrest the driver who hit the fleeing BG? That doesn't seem right....

September 27, 2005, 10:18 AM	#8
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	It depends on color of individual and many other things .In the Howard Beach NY incident an individual [perhaps on drugs] was being chased by neighborhood youths , ran onto a highway at night and was killed by a car.He was black chased by whites the whites were given the most severe punishments !!

September 27, 2005, 10:28 AM	#9
Derius_T Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: South West OHIO (boondocks) Posts: 1,337	I dunno...I'd hate to try to turn this into a racial thing.... Theres enough of that ignorant crap already...

September 27, 2005, 10:55 AM	#10
MidKnight Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2005 Posts: 145	Yeah, there's nothing about race in this story... as well there shouldn't be. Clearly it's the fault of the BG. He ran. What's he expect? To NOT be chased? Then he ran out in front of a car further proving his brilliance. Now as far as the driver of the car and why he was arrested: it doesn't seem right to us. However, we're only getting part of the story. Maybe that guy had had a little to drink earlier. Or perhaps he was going a bit fast. These are all things that in the eye of the law can make the driver responsible for the accident. This IIRC is because you could have avoided it by obeying the law. If the investigation proves that the accident was unavoidable under normal circumstances, then he'll be free to go. __________________ S&W 908 9mm Marlin 81TS .22 Mauser 8mm / sporterized

September 27, 2005, 12:07 PM	#11
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	Without more info, this is just a guess mind you, but I suspect the driver was detained, not arrested, for investigation of vehicular homicide. That would be SOP in that situation. __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

September 27, 2005, 07:37 PM	#12
eka Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2004 Posts: 235	"I'm moving this one to Training and Tactics since the only issue seems to be the importance of lOOking before running into traffic; or perhaps, the importance of defensive driving. There isn't a whiff of Legal or Political to it. All yours, Denny. If the cops were carrying wheel guns, you may wish to pass it over to the Revolver Forum. Tam's should really appreciate that." I can see how one would have trouble with where this fits, but I think it was made clear by these comments: "You'd think the Police would know better than to get involved in a dangerous pursuit over a minor infraction." "Guess it's just another "Pursuit" death to be laid at the feet of "The Police".... " This is obviously just another attempt to take a swing at the police while demonstrating ones ignorance regarding police pursuit policy and attempting to ignore that the suspect was wrong in his actions. That's pretty pathetic! __________________ EKA Sic Semper Tyrannis

September 27, 2005, 08:34 PM	#13
k9lwt Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2005 Location: Posts: 123	You'd think the Police would know better than to get involved in a dangerous pursuit over a minor infraction. I know that usually they don't end this bad, as most end with the out of breath suspect collapsing from exhaustion, or at most getting a few scrapes from being tackled, but hey. Guess it's just another "Pursuit" death to be laid at the feet of "The Police".... What are you talking about? How do you know that this is a minor infraction? It was my understanding that the police were trying to verify the identify of the person that subsequently ran into a moving vehicle. He wasn't training for a marathon, he was running for a reason. Why would you assume that the police made a mistake in chasing someone that fled while they were trying to verify his identity? It's sad that anyone would assume that the police did anything wrong. It's even more sad for you people that say this is racially motivated. As far as the driver goes, he was arrested for a reason. People don't just get arrested for no reason. I feel bad that the fleeing subject died, but unfortunately it's his fault.

September 27, 2005, 09:35 PM	#14
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	Uh, guys? TheeBadOne IS a cop, and the quotes are simply dripping with sarcasm. __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

September 28, 2005, 10:08 AM	#15
John Ringo Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Location: Washington DC Posts: 379	Sounds like the guy was at fault. Sounds silly if a LEO can't chase after someone without getting blamed for some injury sustained by a clumsy criminal. __________________ Regards, John Ringo "I like these calm little moments before the storm (Stansfield, The Professional)."

September 28, 2005, 10:18 AM	#16
Coop de Ville Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2000 Posts: 436	Sadly, where I work, if someone gets hurt when I chase them it's my fault (Dept.'s fault). __________________ "If chance be the father of all flesh, disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear a 'state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, troops on rampage, whites go looting, bomb blasts school,' it is but the sound of man , worshipping his maker." - S. Turner

September 29, 2005, 05:53 PM	#17
k9lwt Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2005 Location: Posts: 123	Thanks Capt, my mistake.

September 29, 2005, 06:09 PM	#18
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 2,474	Call me cold but I hope the guys estate has money to pay for the poor motorist's damaged vehicle and someone for them to talk to becuse it takes a heck of a toll on the person behind the wheel even if they know it's not their fault.

September 29, 2005, 06:09 PM	#19
spacemanspiff Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2002 Location: alaska Posts: 3,498	nah its the cops fault. they should have known better to oppress the poor folks who cant get no job and have to commit crimes. i mean, if that poor guy who ran wasnt committing crimes his family wouldnt have a roof over their heads or food on the table. __________________ "Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard

September 29, 2005, 07:41 PM	#20
john in jax Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2005 Posts: 1,177	Stupid perp's fault, he made more than one bad decision/choice that night and one of them got him killed.

September 30, 2005, 04:24 PM	#22
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 2,474	Blackmind, yes I agree with you, but that is an easy position to be in when you are removed from the situation, now imagine that you are a 19 year old kid, not very worldly and you splat some one, blood, guts, cops everywhere --- you can KNOW in your mind it's not your fault, you can HEAR when the cops, family and all that say it's not your fault, it still screws you up short term at best and takes it's toll on you. Saw if first hand, dumb butt known for his stunts and showing off on his crotch rocket lost it compleatly in a curve, witnesses reported he had been up in the air doing a wheelie at about 80 --- bought it head on into the front of a VW jetta --- he was DOA, put my fingers in some part of his brain doing inital acessment, felt bad till I saw the kit who hit him who I pray is over that bad scene by now (number of years latter) but who the hell knows --- It's hard to see especally when you did't ask for it or expect it.

October 3, 2005, 08:53 PM	#23
Jack Malloy Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2005 Posts: 791	You blame the moron who decided to run from the police. In our area a stupid criminal got shot following a police chase. Of course some local media types who dont know anything about law enforcement, tactics or public safety went around going on and on about how the career petty criminal had been "murdered" by "dirty" cops. He kept babbling about how they shot the guy twice. I guess he gets his concepts of gunfighting tactcs from reruns of Gunsmoke or Mannix.... I feel he would have had a different opinion had his wife been killed in a head on collission because some scumbag decided to try and outrun John Law. One of my friends who spent 30 years in LE once told me that the only time he had to draw his weapon in the line of duty, he was halfway tempted to use it upon himself as he knew that he would get crucified in the media and sued by the perp.

October 4, 2005, 02:58 AM	#25
CPTAUSRET Junior Member Join Date: October 4, 2005 Location: Iowa City, Iowa ABQ, and Santa Fe NM Posts: 4	You run from the police, the consequences (of your actions) lie with you. Terry __________________ E-7, CW-3, direct comission VN. 3 1/2 tours flying gunships VN. 65-66 B-model guns, 68 69 70 Cobras.