Leaving Home In Wake Of Disaster.

[threefivesevenmag]

I have a question for everyone. I know a lot of people have been posting about guns and ammo if one had to defend their home or leave their home in the case of disaster (natural or man made).

My question is..."if you had to leave your home and travel somewhere for whatever reason how much ammo and arms would be too much to carry on just your person?" No car, no boat, just walking it...so it's all on your own steam.

I would want a pistol, a long gun, and a back up pistol. But I don't know what I'd choose between a rifle or shotgun if I could only take one with me. Which would you all take?

How many mags or reloads for a long gun and a pistol would be too much...considering space in your pack for food/other supplies? How important would ammo and guns even become?

[leadcounsel]

Just me on foot? Fewer guns and more ammo.

Where am I walking and for how many days? What's the purpose of my journey? If I must walk someplace in a SHTF situation, I'll carry what a soldier would carry. An AR-15 and as many mags and ammo as I can carry, probably about 10 mags, or 300 rds. A .40 Glock with two mags and a knife. My body armor, helmet, and water. Probably a survival blanket and first aid, and some MREs. Ammo and guns would be as valuable as water and food. I don't see you living in a SHTF world without these three items. A human consumes minimum a gallon a day of water, especially if you're exercising. And you need a few hundred calories minimum too. Without a gun, you would soon be robbed of your provisions and possibly beaten or killed. Weighted down this much, I'd be lucky to walk 10-20 miles per day at 1-2 mph on average for 10+ hours.



In a SHTF situation, walking would be pointless. It's too dangerous and futile because you cannot cover enough distance and you'd consume too much water and food.

I can't really see a situation where I would walk someplace. If I couldn't drive, the best bet is to stay at home. Can't see many SHTF scenarios that would drive me from my home. I live in Denver. Any realisitic SHTF situations would force me to just barricade myself in my home with water, food, guns, ammo etc. and wait it out. We won't get flooded, no earthquakes, no major natural disasters (we had the 100 year snowstorm in March '02 and nobody could go anywhere for days). Advance warning of a nuke would keep me inside my basement if I couldn't get to deep in the rockies. Pointless to walk. Roads would be clogged.

[USP45usp]

That's what those hiking/mountain climbing backpacks are for

Wayne

[Twycross]

Yeah, a good backpack will allow you to carry a lot, but you still have the problem of speed. 70+ pounds of stuff on your back really slows you down.

In real life, I don't think I would just 'hit the road'. I would have to go somewhere close, or just barricade myself in. Most likely thing though would be to throw everything I own in the back of my Pathfinder and drive away. There are some perks to being a college student .

However, if I had to walk, I would take my .270 and .40 S&W and head for the hills with at least 300 rounds for each. Then set up some sort of center of operations out in the boondocks until the crisis was over, or other options became available.

[stephen426]

Originally Posted by Lead Counsel

In a SHTF situation, walking would be pointless. It's too dangerous and futile because you cannot cover enough distance and you'd consume too much water and food.

Where you live, that strategy might work. In New Orleans, it would be a bad idea. I read about a woman who stayed at home with her mother and 2 teen daughters on CNN.com. They were trapped in the attic with little water and no food. The woman's mother died and was even contemplating suicide. She even urged her daughters to over dose on their dead grandmother's pain medication. If the water kept rising, they would have been dead. Besides, with all of the disease and contamination in the water, I wouldn't stay there if I had to leave EVERYTHING behind, even my guns. What good will they do me if I am dead from disease. Besides, dry ground may be close by. Why should I stay in my situation and barricade myself in instead of looking to improve my situation.

Now to get back to the point of this thread. You really have to see the situation before answering this post. Water and food are the most important needs. Warm clothes is equally important in harsh winter conditions. As lead counsel mentioned, you could be quickly relieved of your supplies if you aren't armed though. To that extent, you really have to balance your load with enough water, food, clothes, and firepower to make it to safety (if such a place exists). For an area devestated by a natural disaster, there will be safety outside of the affected area.

Having a long arm improves range and firepower but might also make you a target. If others are armed and ambushing people for their supplies, a person carrying openly is an attractive target. That person would get sniped in a heartbeat. Carry a smaller concealed pistol and pack something a little heavy duty if you can conceal it.

In the event of a nuclear attack, simply pleace your head between your knees and kiss your butt goodbye. Forget about food and water being available. Besides, the fallout will probably kill you if the actual blasts don't.

[tshadow6]

If I had to evacuate by walking, I would distribute my weapons among my family. I would carry one pistol,knife, rifle and spare ammo along with my food and water. My boys would get my extra pistols and one longgun each. My wife can carry the J frame. However, having to hike it is not realistic in FL. Florida has plans to cover hurricanes. We receive plenty of warning.

[Dwight55]

357mag wrote: ..."if you had to leave your home and travel somewhere for whatever reason how much ammo and arms would be too much to carry on just your person?"

My worst nightmare is simply that, . . . gotta go, . . . and on foot. At present we would have several .22 pistols (take em all, . . . they should be great barter goods) one semi auto shotgun, one lever rifle, one pump shotgun, and a couple rimfire rifles. We would take what ammo we had at the time, which wouldn't be a lot, . . . but hopefully sufficient. My 1911 of course would also make the journey.

There would be 3 or 4 of us, . . . our destination is 200 miles away, . . . we would make it in probably 8 days, . . . averaging 1 meal a day, . . . lots of water purification stuff with us as we could not carry and 8 day water supply.

That is plan # 5 or 6 or maybe 7, . . . hope it never comes to that, . . . but we would be in "family" country at the end of the journey, . . . so it is worth while.

May God bless,
Dwight

[leadcounsel]

I've often thought about the emergencies that would drive me from my home in Denver.

If I had to head to the hills, there are few roads into the Rockies and I would be fighting with 2 million others to get there. I would instead head north to Wyoming and then west to the Wyoming or Montana Rockies. It's about a 10-15 hour drive, so probably 3 tanks of gas in good traffic. In a real bad situation I don't think that's realistic.

So, I doubt I would rush out. But you'd just really have to weigh the situation. It might be safer to stay behind and salvage what others left behind in their flight.

Nukes in the sky would immobilize electronics and cars via EMPs. So it's walking or no-go. Won't matter though, as someone else pointed out the lucky ones would die first, so kiss your butt goodbye.

Denver doesn't flood. Tornados are completely rare and not that bad when they occur, and they hit the plains 30-50 miles east of the city. Earthquakes are rare and very minor. Hurricanes, well.... There really just isn't anything that would drive me from home.

The more I think about walking someplace, I just think that walking is just asking for trouble. Without a pack animal, you just can't carry enough to survive.

That said, I DO advocate the NOLA victims leaving any way they could have, including walking, because safety was just a day or two walk away from their unique situation. But that is a unique situation.

[Chindo18Z]

threefivesevenmag:

Question #1. It depends on your future prospects for the given situation. If you are moving to a known sanctuary or safe area (where civilization is still up & running), your requirements are short term (i.e., as long as it takes you to get there). If you are planning for a long-term foraging/hunting lifestyle (a "Postman" post-nuclear warfare environment), your plan will require a modified loadout. For the first scenario, a long gun, handgun, and a moderate load of ammo would be enough. For the second, you would need to weigh (pun intended) the practicality of humping an additional .22 long rifle and/or shotgun. These weapon types would be for hunting. If I were going to actually cut into my ruck weight by adding a second long gun, it would be a lightweight .22 rifle (AR-7, Marlin Papoose, etc. along with a 500 rd brick or two of .22 LR ammo). Unless you are SURE of your rucking capabilities (meaning that you have current practice with your planned weight & distance), plan to go with no more than 50-60 lbs (total weight of everything on your body). You will be doing well to make 15 miles a day in a SHTF situation.

Question #2. RIFLE. You can only handle one long gun if a fight erupts. Make sure it's one which is effective at all practical ranges. You need a centerfire, medium caliber, repeating rifle (.223, 5.56, 7.62 x 39, .308, 7.62 x 54, 7.62 x 51, 30-30, .270, etc.). The rifle wins against the shotgun. It isn't about the relative merits of stopping power or appropriateness for limited tactical situations. It's about which type of weapon will give you the best performance over an entire spectrum of possible events. You can carry far more rifle rounds than shotgun shells. A rifle gives you more range, penetration, and accuracy than a shotgun. If your priority is small game hunting or very close range defensive use, a shotgun is great. For everything else (and even for those two scenarios) a rifle is the tool of choice.

Question #3. The rifle is for everything. The pistol is for "Oh [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]". In the 5.56 caliber realm, 300 rds is about right (10 x 30 rd mags). You won't have frag grenades, claymore mines, C-4, AT-4s, LAWs, additional 7.62 machinegun ammo, smoke grenades, night vision goggles, tactical radios, etc.). Thus, you can add some additional rifle ammo IF your rucksack load of food, water, shelter, and clothing allows. If your ruck is light enough, toss in another 90-180 rds worth of pre-loaded magazines.

In 7.62/.30 caliber realm, about half of what you would carry in 5.56 will be about right...maybe a little more (160 rds).

In .22 Long Rifle: If the rifle is your primary long gun, get the best quality repeater you can afford and carry 1000 rds. If it is secondary (takedown rifle stowed on pack) carry a lesser amount of ammo (500 rds).

Ammo for your pistol should be around 3-4 ready magazines (including the one in the weapon)

In any event, I wouldn't plan on carrying more than 2 x 50 rd boxes worth of pistol ammo. One of these would be pre-loaded in your mags. The extra 50 round box would go in the rucksack or backpack. If need be (due to weight considerations), carry 4 loaded mags and call it a day.

For a revolver, carry a loaded cylinder, 3 x speedloaders, and an extra box of 50 rds. If weight is a concern, lose the extra 50 rds.

If you are going to pack a .22 pistol in your ruck (for hunting) one or two 500 round bricks should see you thru at least the next winter...

The combat caliber pistol is for self defense only, not food procurement. You are unlikely to need a bazzillion rounds of handgun ammunition and if you think that you might...you need more rifle ammo instead.

In Afghanistan (the remote and far from immediate resupply/rescue parts of Afghanistan), I carried 430 rds of 5.56 (13 x 30 rd mags & 2 x 20 rd full tracer mags) and 45 rds of 9mm. Of course, I also had frags...and friends with frags (and automatic rifles and machineguns ).

Your main effort in SHTF movement should be to get to where you need to go, in one piece, and with no drama. You should move like a rabbit avoiding hawks... not a male pit bull looking for a dog fight.

Water weighs 8.8 lbs per gallon. You will need 3 qts per day while on the move (more in summer). Your water load and a good purifier or filter kit is probably more vital than a handgun. Likewise with regards to that expensive 2 lb custom fighting knife...

I'll summarize using my version of a reasonable weapons load (which allows you to still carry all the other shiznit you need):

1 x 5.56 semi-auto w/ 300 rds [about 7-8lbs of rifle & 5 lbs of ammo]
1 x loaded and reliable combat caliber handgun w/ 3 x reloads [3-4 lbs pistol & ammo combined]
1 x lightweight adjustable sight .22 LR handgun w/ 500 rds [3 lbs pistol and ammo combined]

Total weapon/ammo weight for 3 month trek to grandma's house through hordes of zombies: 20 lbs maximum

[Low Key]

I agree with Dwight55, worst case scenario is I have to leave home and foot it somewhere ;that would be my very last choice. I can only see me abandoning the home in 2 situations...1) I'm forced out under fire, (not likely I know but something to consider) and 2) natural disaster makes the area unlivable. Otherwise I have a good postion to hunker down and ride it out...I live on a hilltop, have a water well, I'm surrounded by woods full of critters that are good to eat and easy to get to, I have a fireplace for heat if I need it and I have a good stockpile of ammo for hunting or self defence. My best option is to try and ride out a SHTF scenario if possible...I got nowhere to go but here. That doesn't cover every possible situation but its a starting point, and I'll have to improvise from there, and use whats available.

[Mannlicher]

I think many times, answers to a question like this are predicated upon a total and utter crash of society. In the case of a Katrina type disaster move, taking a huge amount of guns and ammunition is probably counter productive.
The area you would need your guns, is in the afflicted area. Once you leave, you move back into 'normal society', and you would need normal, prudent protection, not enough rifles, pistols, shotguns, and cartridges to fend off a Zombie Nation attack.
If I were to leave Miami two steps ahead of a cat 5 hurricane, I would probably only take my normal carry handgun, and some reloads.

[Evader1]

I didn't hear anyone mention anything about a canoe or kayak. I have my canoe and the stream which is about 20 feet acros by 2 feet deep is good for me and only a 30 min walk. Canoe is inflatable and can carry 500lbs. So I pack what's necessary and get the love of my life, put her in with the gear and we're gone. Again if the vehicle option is out, what do you all think?

[beenthere]

The various responses show how our circumstances vary individually. I for instance have a lake cottage located about 35 miles by road from me. In addition I'd be starting from a community of 12,000 twenty miles from a city of 300,000.

I'd be throwing the BOB and everything else I could load in 15 minutes in the pickup and heading to the lake. Fortunately I can travel backroads nearly the whole way. Every mile I could travel by truck would be a mile I wouldn't have to walk with the BOB. Since it's all rural travel I could probably take time to bury a lot of "stuff" along the way wrapped in plastic to retrieve later.

Of course I'm over 65 so I might just sit down and enjoy my heart attack.