I Could Barely Kill Pack Rats With .22LR-Remington Thunderbolt. Why? - Page 3

bamaranger · October 20, 2020, 07:34 AM

As others folks have noted, the round nosed lead .22 lr bullet is notorious for lacking "killing power" for bodyshots on critters. For hunting near anything appropriate in the .22 lr range of power, hollow point ammo is a better choice.

Kreyzhorse · October 20, 2020, 06:49 PM

How close were you shooting them from? Where were you hitting them at?

Head shot? Tail shot? It all matters and generally thinking, things want to live till they can't.

ThomasT · October 20, 2020, 07:16 PM

OK where I used to live we had a creek behind the wood fence and the only pecan tree I could see in any direction. And Burleson Tx is known for having a rat population. That pecan tree was a rat and squirrel magnet.

The squirrels came of duty around 10am to about dusk. The rats came on watch around 10pm and were on the job almost all night. I had two different Chow dogs and those were the huntingest dogs I have ever seen. When they had a squirrel or rat treed they had a high pitched bark. And if they sounded the alarm you could count on there being a rodent to hunt.

I kept a pair of slip on shoes, slip on shorts, a bolt action 22 loaded with CB22s and a flashlight by the bed. My Chow (Chopper) would start his high pitched bark in the middle of the night. I would wake up from a dead sleep and say "Chopper's got a rat". And quick as a fireman I was dressed to kill and on my way.

I never lost a rat when using those bullets. I sometimes used a Benjimen/Crosman pump 22 with 5 pumps in it. Same for the squirrels. It just killed them dead. Except for a few times they would fall out of the tree and the dog was on them instantly and he would shake them so hard you could hear the bones breaking.

I shot over 200 rats before I stopped keeping count. I never had one in the house or the garage. It was some of the funnest hunting I have ever done. I really miss it here in my new house.

If you aren't killing the rats you are shooting all I can say is its just plain bad hits. I did what I did with a low powered round with a RN bullet. I did try to make head shots. That was easy because the rats would hide behind a limb and every time they would move to a fork to have a look to see what you were. Just aim at the closest fork and when he sticks his little rat head out blast him. Dead rat.

And I tried one of the Colibi Quiet no powder rounds on a squirrel. It just bounced off and the squirrel ran away giving me a good cussin'.

stephen426 · October 20, 2020, 07:39 PM

Check out my review on my new Air Venturi Avenger air rifle.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=40

Rangerrich99 · October 22, 2020, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Thunderbolt is high velocity -- 1255 fps. The problem is that it's round-nose, not hollow point. There won't be any expansion.

Ah, okay. I shoot the stuff; I don't really pay attention to the actual velocity of .22lr ammo.

Pahoo · October 23, 2020, 02:50 PM

Once hunted up around Bolder Junction, Wisconsin and they are notorious for their population of Sabre-tooth Chipmunks. had to use some of my Remington Yellow-Jackets and the vermits still didn't die, right off .....

Sorry bout dat and;
Be Safe !!!

stephen426 · October 23, 2020, 05:14 PM

I had an avocado that was going bad and decided to test out the Air Venturi Avenger on it using Predator Polymags. I need to figure out how to get the video on here. I captured it using slow-motion record so it was pretty cool. I can’t imagine a rat surviving long from a hit like that.

HiBC · October 23, 2020, 07:38 PM

A ranch where I've gone to shoot had a large ,round woodpile with a bunch of cottontails living in it.
I was harveting a few.
I set myself in a loading chute "hide" with my Rem 513 "S" topped with a Weaver K-4.
Making a head shot was my choice. Better for the pan.
I'd hit them,they;d flip about 6 feet up in the air,hit the ground,then somehow crawl back into the woodpile.
Ordinarily,I'd say a solid headshot fulfilled "shot placement"

But,actually, a headshot can be misleading. The head is not all central nervous system. There is quite a bit of "less lethal" real estate than brain pan. Facial structure,etc.

It was hard to believe, but the "boing" straight up back flip bounce comes from a head shot, and they disappeared..
Switching to hollowpoints fixd it,along with aiming smaller. COM on a head isn't so good.

Shoulder shots anchored them.

An old trick to increase lethality on 22 solids is to cut a flat meplat on the tip.

A pocketknife will do.

Do some research on packrats. They have a way of being "dangerous game" that can kill you.

A distant relative spent a couple of weeks in intensive care and took 40 some units of blood.

No,it was not like the cave rabbit in Monte Python's Holy Grail.

It was Hanta Virus. She was cleaning a cabin that had pack rats. The urine and fecal matter holds the virus. Pack rats carry it. Gloves,mashs,etc are required. Do some research.

Good luck!

Geezerbiker · October 23, 2020, 08:06 PM

About flatting the nose on a RN .22 bullet, I recall Ed Harris talking about doing just that on the old FidoNet forum. He said he made a fixture to do it evenly by drilling though a piece of steel. Of course what's easy for a guy with a life time in the gun business is more trouble for us ordinary folk...

Tony

HiBC · October 23, 2020, 08:45 PM

Drilling a hole would work. If your local gunsmith has a nasty,ringed,pitted junk 22 barrel ,the chamber end could be cut off and faced to length.
But IMO an eyeball and sharp knife will get it done plenty good for pack rat ranges.
Easy enough to try. Or,buy Stingers.

Geezerbiker · October 24, 2020, 07:51 AM

I haven't seen stingers for sale anywhere in years. I wasn't sure they still made them. So if once could get them, they'd be the best solution (other than a more powerful rifle) to doing more damage to the rats.

Tony

Double Naught Spy · October 24, 2020, 11:14 AM

Quote:

So if once could get them, they'd be the best solution (other than a more powerful rifle) to doing more damage to the rats.

The OP is shooting rats with a .22 lr at fairly short range. Need more power? WHAT??? The issue isn't that he can't get sufficient penetration, LOL. Shooting a rat with a .22 lr ball bullet would be about like shooting a bison with a black powder Civil War 4.62" 12 pound mountain Howitizer cannonball in terms of hole size and penetration all the way through the animal.

Quote:

Do some research on packrats. They have a way of being "dangerous game" that can kill you.

A distant relative spent a couple of weeks in intensive care and took 40 some units of blood.

No,it was not like the cave rabbit in Monte Python's Holy Grail.

It was Hanta Virus. She was cleaning a cabin that had pack rats. The urine and fecal matter holds the virus. Pack rats carry it.

After doing some research, it would appear that pack rats are not noted carriers of Hanta virus. You have your deer and white-footed mice, cotton rat, and rice rat, but no pack rats. You have attributed guilt by association. If here were 'packrats' in the cabin, then there were likely also the common peromyscid mice as well that actually do carry Hanta virus.
https://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/roden...20palustris%29

https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_l/L209/welcome.html

Pack rats and their parasites carry a variety of maladies, but Hanta virus apparently is not one of them.

shurshot · October 24, 2020, 04:06 PM

Prior to the Pandemic and evaporation of arms and ammo, CCI was producing tons of hyper velocity Stingers and Velociraptor .22 LR ammo. I grabbed all I wanted at Cabelas back in February.

Kevin Rohrer · October 24, 2020, 05:12 PM

Pack rats must be very big. When I was small, we would shoot dump rats every Sunday. They died easily w/ any Long Rifle cartridge we shot them with.

OneFreeTexan · October 24, 2020, 08:07 PM

Long ago, we young’ uns, would go to the local dump, tape flashlights to our 22’s and shoot rats/. One night the local deputy showed up and soon he was using his service revolver to shoot rats. Then it got really fun when a ‘statie;’ showed up and showed us how to shoot...a fun evening.. Never did care to figure out who called the law.

October 20, 2020, 07:34 AM	#51
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	as stated As others folks have noted, the round nosed lead .22 lr bullet is notorious for lacking "killing power" for bodyshots on critters. For hunting near anything appropriate in the .22 lr range of power, hollow point ammo is a better choice.

October 20, 2020, 06:49 PM	#52
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	How close were you shooting them from? Where were you hitting them at? Head shot? Tail shot? It all matters and generally thinking, things want to live till they can't. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

October 20, 2020, 07:39 PM	#54
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	Check out my review on my new Air Venturi Avenger air rifle. https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=40 __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

October 23, 2020, 02:50 PM	#56
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Been Thar !!! Once hunted up around Bolder Junction, Wisconsin and they are notorious for their population of Sabre-tooth Chipmunks. had to use some of my Remington Yellow-Jackets and the vermits still didn't die, right off ..... Sorry bout dat and; Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

October 23, 2020, 05:14 PM	#57
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	I had an avocado that was going bad and decided to test out the Air Venturi Avenger on it using Predator Polymags. I need to figure out how to get the video on here. I captured it using slow-motion record so it was pretty cool. I can’t imagine a rat surviving long from a hit like that. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

October 20, 2020, 07:16 PM	#53
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	OK where I used to live we had a creek behind the wood fence and the only pecan tree I could see in any direction. And Burleson Tx is known for having a rat population. That pecan tree was a rat and squirrel magnet. The squirrels came of duty around 10am to about dusk. The rats came on watch around 10pm and were on the job almost all night. I had two different Chow dogs and those were the huntingest dogs I have ever seen. When they had a squirrel or rat treed they had a high pitched bark. And if they sounded the alarm you could count on there being a rodent to hunt. I kept a pair of slip on shoes, slip on shorts, a bolt action 22 loaded with CB22s and a flashlight by the bed. My Chow (Chopper) would start his high pitched bark in the middle of the night. I would wake up from a dead sleep and say "Chopper's got a rat". And quick as a fireman I was dressed to kill and on my way. I never lost a rat when using those bullets. I sometimes used a Benjimen/Crosman pump 22 with 5 pumps in it. Same for the squirrels. It just killed them dead. Except for a few times they would fall out of the tree and the dog was on them instantly and he would shake them so hard you could hear the bones breaking. I shot over 200 rats before I stopped keeping count. I never had one in the house or the garage. It was some of the funnest hunting I have ever done. I really miss it here in my new house. If you aren't killing the rats you are shooting all I can say is its just plain bad hits. I did what I did with a low powered round with a RN bullet. I did try to make head shots. That was easy because the rats would hide behind a limb and every time they would move to a fork to have a look to see what you were. Just aim at the closest fork and when he sticks his little rat head out blast him. Dead rat. And I tried one of the Colibi Quiet no powder rounds on a squirrel. It just bounced off and the squirrel ran away giving me a good cussin'.

October 23, 2020, 07:38 PM	#58
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	A ranch where I've gone to shoot had a large ,round woodpile with a bunch of cottontails living in it. I was harveting a few. I set myself in a loading chute "hide" with my Rem 513 "S" topped with a Weaver K-4. Making a head shot was my choice. Better for the pan. I'd hit them,they;d flip about 6 feet up in the air,hit the ground,then somehow crawl back into the woodpile. Ordinarily,I'd say a solid headshot fulfilled "shot placement" But,actually, a headshot can be misleading. The head is not all central nervous system. There is quite a bit of "less lethal" real estate than brain pan. Facial structure,etc. It was hard to believe, but the "boing" straight up back flip bounce comes from a head shot, and they disappeared.. Switching to hollowpoints fixd it,along with aiming smaller. COM on a head isn't so good. Shoulder shots anchored them. An old trick to increase lethality on 22 solids is to cut a flat meplat on the tip. A pocketknife will do. Do some research on packrats. They have a way of being "dangerous game" that can kill you. A distant relative spent a couple of weeks in intensive care and took 40 some units of blood. No,it was not like the cave rabbit in Monte Python's Holy Grail. It was Hanta Virus. She was cleaning a cabin that had pack rats. The urine and fecal matter holds the virus. Pack rats carry it. Gloves,mashs,etc are required. Do some research. Good luck!

October 23, 2020, 08:06 PM	#59
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	About flatting the nose on a RN .22 bullet, I recall Ed Harris talking about doing just that on the old FidoNet forum. He said he made a fixture to do it evenly by drilling though a piece of steel. Of course what's easy for a guy with a life time in the gun business is more trouble for us ordinary folk... Tony

October 23, 2020, 08:45 PM	#60
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Drilling a hole would work. If your local gunsmith has a nasty,ringed,pitted junk 22 barrel ,the chamber end could be cut off and faced to length. But IMO an eyeball and sharp knife will get it done plenty good for pack rat ranges. Easy enough to try. Or,buy Stingers.

October 24, 2020, 07:51 AM	#61
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	I haven't seen stingers for sale anywhere in years. I wasn't sure they still made them. So if once could get them, they'd be the best solution (other than a more powerful rifle) to doing more damage to the rats. Tony

October 24, 2020, 04:06 PM	#63
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	Prior to the Pandemic and evaporation of arms and ammo, CCI was producing tons of hyper velocity Stingers and Velociraptor .22 LR ammo. I grabbed all I wanted at Cabelas back in February.

October 24, 2020, 05:12 PM	#64
Kevin Rohrer Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 1,049	Pack rats must be very big. When I was small, we would shoot dump rats every Sunday. They died easily w/ any Long Rifle cartridge we shot them with. __________________ Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, ARTCA, and American Legion. Caveat Emptor: Cavery Grips/AmericanGripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He is a scammer

October 24, 2020, 08:07 PM	#65
OneFreeTexan Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: West, Texas Posts: 280	Long ago, we young’ uns, would go to the local dump, tape flashlights to our 22’s and shoot rats/. One night the local deputy showed up and soon he was using his service revolver to shoot rats. Then it got really fun when a ‘statie;’ showed up and showed us how to shoot...a fun evening.. Never did care to figure out who called the law.