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Old November 5, 2018, 09:58 AM   #1
USNRet93
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CCW Card - Possesion?

I ride a bike but carry a LCP(result of going toe to toe with a guy with a tire iron)...I don't carry my CCW card, I know I should BUT if I do get asked for it but don't have it...
-is it a misdemeanor or more serious(Colorado)?
-can I just have the number on the card?
-could I just have the LEO check with local Sheriff? Since that's who issued it?
-would the LEO likely just give me a warning?

OR stop being lazy and carry the thing..

Crap, wanted to make this a new post..can the mods please move-sorry, FNG(farging new guy)...
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Old November 5, 2018, 11:10 AM   #2
cjwils
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USNret93: In some states, your concealed carry permit is tied to your driver's license on the state's database, which cops can access. I assume you carry you DL while riding.
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Old November 5, 2018, 02:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjwils View Post
USNret93: In some states, your concealed carry permit is tied to your driver's license on the state's database, which cops can access. I assume you carry you DL while riding.
Ahhh, no. ‘Road ID’ bracelet gizmo with all my info, name, blood type, phone, NKA, etc.
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Old November 6, 2018, 10:13 AM   #4
Al Norris
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Moved the posts to a new thread.

Having done that, I will say that many (most?) states require that you have your card in your possession in order for carrying concealed to be lawful.

That's pretty much the same as your drivers license.

It's generally an infraction at the least or a misdemeanor at worst, to be driving or carrying concealed without possession of the document that grants the privilege.

I don't know the specifics of Colorado law, which is why I said, generally.
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Old November 6, 2018, 11:13 AM   #5
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CO Law: You must carry both your permit to carry a concealed handgun and valid photo identification with you at all times you are in possession of a concealed handgun. (C.R.S. 18-12-204) You may be charged with a Class 1 petty offense if you fail to produce these two documents upon demand by a law enforcement officer.
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Old November 6, 2018, 11:51 AM   #6
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I'm not licensed in CO, but it looks like MarkCO nailed it.
Quote:
The permittee shall carry the permit, together with valid photo identification, at all times during which the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed handgun and shall produce both documents upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Failure to produce a permit upon demand by a law enforcement officer raises a rebuttable presumption that the person does not have a permit. Failure to carry and produce a permit and valid photo identification upon demand as required in this subsection (2) is a class 1 petty offense. A charge of failure to carry and produce a permit and valid photo identification upon demand pursuant to this subsection (2) shall be dismissed by the court if, at or before the permittee's scheduled court appearance, the permittee exhibits to the court a valid permit and valid photo identification, both of which were issued to the permittee prior to the date on which the permittee was charged with failure to carry and produce a permit and valid photo identification upon demand.

Colo. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 18-12-204 (West)
Quote:
(1)(a) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (d) of this subsection (1), misdemeanors are divided into three classes that are distinguished from one another by the following penalties that are authorized upon conviction except as provided in subsection (1.5) of this section:
Code:
Class   Minimum Sentence*                          Maximum Sentence*
1        6 mos or $500 or both                    18 mos or $5k or both

Colo. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 18-1.3-501 (West)
*= Please note that I abbreviated the statutory language to make it fit.

This penalty would cause me some grave concern. If I've read this right, the maximum penalty is 18 mos. That's a crime "punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" and triggers 18 U.S.C. 922(g)
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Old November 6, 2018, 11:56 AM   #7
44 AMP
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you ride a bike. Is that a bicycle or a motorcycle? Sounds like a bicycle if you don't carry your driver's license.


Quote:
OR stop being lazy and carry the thing..
You just gave yourself the best advice you're gonna get.

Generally speaking, any activity that requires a government permit or license ALSO requires you to be able to produce said license or permit on demand of a government "agent".

Doesn't matter if its driving a car, carrying a gun, holding a parade or digging a swimming pool, if you can't show the legally required paperwork to the cop /inspector, then you are in violation of something, and a ticket/citation is the LEAST you can hope for.

How likely is the cop to just let you off with a warning? Not very, if there's a gun involved. In fact, there's a good chance both you and your gun are going to be spending time as guests of the police.

Consider the situation from the other side for a moment. You're on a bike (say bicycle so you aren't required to have a license to operate it), You ARE carrying a concealed weapon. You don't have the required permit for the gun ON YOU. You don't have valid ID, ON YOU (the road ID bracelet is information for first responders, NOT a valid ID), and Officer Friendly doesn't know you...personally...

SO, how do you think they're going to react? There is so much that can go so badly wrong, in just seconds, it is a real risk. Some places you are required by law to inform the cop if you are legally armed. Even if its not the law, its considered a very good idea. Some will tell you it better be the first thing the cop hears, "officer I am legally armed, how do you wish to proceed?" can save a lot of trouble. Except, you aren't legally armed, without your permit ON YOU.
So, any level of trust, de-escalation of tension you get from informing the officer you are armed (and following his instructions willingly) GOES AWAY when you can't produce the permit. You just LIED to the cop.
They don't like that...and your credibility as a law abiding citizen is now in the crapper.

You could get responses ranging from "hey, buddy, its ok, we all forget something once in a while, go home, get your permit, keep it with you, have a nice day"..to "ok, sir, you can pick up your gun from the police station when you bring in your permit and show us", or you might be proned out, cuffed and arrested, or all the way up to the worst case, your next of kin filing a wrongful death lawsuit...

Also consider this, the "minor violation" of ILLEGALLY CARRYING a weapon, might be enough to get your permit pulled, possibly revoked.

Carry the damn card. Staple it to your forehead if you have to. If you're carrying concealed, don't leave home without it. If you can conceal a weapon, you can conceal the permit for it, and there is NO valid excuse not to have it with you. Lazy in this case could cost you the permit and your legal right to carry concealed, or possibly worse!

Good Luck!
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Old November 6, 2018, 12:17 PM   #8
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I do know that some CO Sheriffs, if you don't carry the permit and get stopped, have articulated that they may be inclined to revoke a permit for same.

If you are in your car, (house or business too) you do not need a permit to carry concealed and under CO law, do not have to inform LE unless they ask. However, in a vehicle stops course, the LEA trainer was telling LE trainees that permit holders ARE required to inform so if they don't, consider it an unlawful weapon until proven otherwise. So even though the law says one thing, realize the individual officer may have had improper training.

FWIW, I did ask if a digital image of a permit on a phone would suffice and was told "No."
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Old November 6, 2018, 01:09 PM   #9
Dano4734
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This state you can kiss your carry permit goodbye if you can’t produce it. They first arrest you for carrying a weapon and then they verify with the sheriff you really have one, then give you an appearance ticket, an then suspend your carry permit for good resulting in the loss of your hanguns as you cannot own a handgun in New York State without a permit and registered weapon. Moral of the story carry the proof
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Old November 6, 2018, 01:22 PM   #10
Lohman446
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Just to be clear:

Your going to force yourself into a position requiring you to make an argument that you have adequate space to carry your pistol but not adequate space to carry the CCW card or your ID.

Do you realize how badly that argument is going to go on the face of it?
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Old November 6, 2018, 06:05 PM   #11
USNRet93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
you ride a bike. Is that a bicycle or a motorcycle? Sounds like a bicycle if you don't carry your driver's license.

You just gave yourself the best advice you're gonna get.

Carry the damn card. If you're carrying concealed, don't leave home without it. If you can conceal a weapon, you can conceal the permit for it, and there is NO valid excuse not to have it with you. Lazy in this case could cost you the permit and your legal right to carry concealed, or possibly worse!

Good Luck!
10-4...thanks for the responses..yes, a bicycle. Carried it today, the permit and military ID card(retired).
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Old November 11, 2018, 03:20 PM   #12
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What's that old saying "Never pick a fight you know you can't win"?
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Old November 11, 2018, 04:31 PM   #13
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Thank you for your service. GO NAVY!
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Old November 11, 2018, 04:39 PM   #14
USNRet93
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And to you also on this veteran’s day.
“sailors belong on ships and ships belong at sea”
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