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Old November 2, 2014, 05:46 AM   #26
Mike / Tx
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Man o man that could have been a LOT worse.

Glad your not hurt any worse than you are. Still isn't a good thing, but the pain will eventually subside and the experience will last as a reminder.

I was loading some H-4350 on the top end for some .243 loads once. Then in a hurry to get things loaded up before openeing weekend so I could make sure I was dialed in, I grabbed up a jug of IMR-4350. I can tell you they are not the same.....I was lucky enough that all I ended up with was a sliver of the primer in my nose, and my left forarm. The action held tight and contained the case. The primer however was blown to other deminsions. My bolt also has a lasting reminder of it with a permanent ring etched into the face.

Like most here, and I am sure you in the future, I check and double check nowadays. If in doubt I simply pour it out and go on about my business. The back lawn is greener in some spots, but that is a small price to pay. A half full measures worth of powder isn't nearly as expensive as the what if's.

Feel better soon, I know that is a small comfort having had some pretty serious injuries to my own digits, but hey, it's still there and you CAN still feel it so it isn't as bad as it could be. Prayers for your recovery.
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Old November 2, 2014, 07:14 AM   #27
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dkyser, I just read this this morning and man I feel bad for you. Like has been said, it could have been way worse. Hope you heal up and everything works right. Now I don't feel so bad for telling my family (politely of course) that I want to be left alone when I'm reloading. It took cahoonas to come on here and fess up. Get well soon and keep reloading, you have been enlightened.
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Old November 2, 2014, 10:19 AM   #28
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First I would like to wish you a speedy and full recovery. Second, I would like to thank you for posting this. I am new to reloading and have been vigilant about safety. Seeing this is a good reminder for us newbies in the reloading game what can happen with a simple slip up.
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Old November 2, 2014, 10:34 AM   #29
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I am sorry this happened to you and I hope you recover quickly. These stories keep me from handloading. You are not a rookie. This could happen to any reloader. Careful with the pain meds. They make me irritable, itchy, nauseous, constipated, and screw up my sleep cycles.
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Old November 2, 2014, 10:41 AM   #30
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Best wishes getting well fast, comfortably both physically and mentally.

Have two friends that both had their match rifles blow on them. Both survived.

First one, top ranked shooter and Palma Team member, had a new Obermeyer barrel on his .308 Win. match rifle. He had tested it in a machine rest and it shot about 1/2 MOA at 600 yards; good enough for the Nationals. At Camp Perry a month later, his third shot from standing blew the barrel in the chamber area. He got some splinter wounds in his arm and minor metal embedding in his forehead. His sleeved Rem 700 action got ripped apart at its top. That barrel was one from the same lot that Obermeyer got from a steel mill. Obermeyer had 3 or 4 other customers with barrels from that lot that split after a few shots were fired. His records with barrel serial number/customer info led him to contact all those who got barrels from that lot. He got replacement ones from the mill and would rebarrel all customers' ones at no cost which I think was paid by the steel mill as part of their warranty standards. But this guy chose not to send his rifle back. He suffered the consequences.

Second one, a few years later, was a gunsmith and retail shop owner, former Remington field rep and 1964 NRA High Power Rifle Champion (shooting his Win. 70 match rifle). He had got some new Winchester ball powders and loaded some under Sierra 168's to test in his .308 Win match rifle he won the Nat'ls with. He sat down at 200 yards to get a zero, fired the first shot and it blew. Parts of brass and steel came back into his face causing quite a bit of damage. Shooting glasses saved his eyes, but not some teeth. His rifle looked much like the OP's picture shows. He was able to drive 25 miles to a hospital for emergency treatment. Later at home, he discovered he had used pistol powder instead of rifle powder. Canisters had different colors as Winchester packaged them. Both were side by side on his loading bench.
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Old November 2, 2014, 11:23 AM   #31
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Thanks for sharing the experience. It really takes courage. Best wishes for speedy recovery.

Just curious. I have used varget, but never titegroup. Do they look alike? Varget is extruded as lots of other rifle powders. All pistol powders I have used are flakes, and of much lower density.

-TL
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Old November 2, 2014, 11:27 AM   #32
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Get well soon. It will likely take some hard work to get back to load again. You might find your self shaking when you go to pull the trigger. Face it and go easy for a wile you should get over it.
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Old November 2, 2014, 11:51 AM   #33
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You would have to wonder why the powder companies would not come up with a visual aid, something like all rifle powders are packaged in black cans. All pistol powders are packaged in red cans. All shotgun powders are packaged in green cans.
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Old November 2, 2014, 11:58 AM   #34
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1. Get well soon.

2. Nobody needs to beat you up over this. You've done that yourself the hard way. In your shoes, I know I'd be writing to Savage thanking them for an action that held together enough not to send the bolt slamming back into my brain, but that's just me. That being said, suggestions for the future:

3. Get thee to Wal-Mart and buy a small whiteboard to go above the loading bench. Before you start, write down the components including charge weight and COAL you are planning on using before you get them out. As you get them out, write the lot numbers as a double check. Put the powder bottle as close to in front of you as you can without it getting in the way. At the end, as you put the bottle away, write all the components again in a record book you should keep for the purpose. This way you will have a double check of your components. Then write a summary on a sticky label and put it on the ammo box. Triple check.

4. Powder storage needs a door and to be separate from the bench. If the only visible bottle is the one you are using, you are less likely to use the wrong one; it will be staring at you the whole time you are loading, and there will still be time to stop before something bad happens again.

Again, get well soon. I hope you keep all the use of your hand; having been on the doctor's side of stuff like this, I know how serious it can be. Nobody who reloads, however careless they are, deserves permanent disability.
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Old November 2, 2014, 12:02 PM   #35
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It's not the powder companies fault, as the OP stated, he made a mistake and now has a painful reminder to always use caustion. He like a man owned up to it.

Let it be a reminder to us all to slow down read, think, and take responsibility for our own mistakes.
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Old November 2, 2014, 12:07 PM   #36
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[QUOTE tangolima]Thanks for sharing the experience. It really takes courage. Best wishes for speedy recovery.

Just curious. I have used varget, but never titegroup. Do they look alike? Varget is extruded as lots of other rifle powders. All pistol powders I have used are flakes, and of much lower density.

-TL[QUOTE

I use Titegroup exclusively and yes it is a very small flake powder. I was thinking, I'm glad I use a single stage press where I can keep an eye on everything. The press doesn't come into play in this incident, the OP stated that he dumped the wrong powder in the hopper. Just goes to show, no matter how experienced you are, mistakes..., and then, accidents can happen. Be safe.
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Old November 2, 2014, 02:00 PM   #37
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I'm grateful it was not worse,and thankful you shared your lesson with us.

I agree that all I expect of Hogdon is to put the correct label on the powder.

Color coding?Come on!

No disrespect to the OP,this is a comment on the illusion of foolproofing.Back in the 1700's,the poet William Blake wrote"All attempts at foolproofing are folly,for the genius of the fool is infinite"

No,I'm not calling the OP a fool.All of us,myself included,have a little bit of fool within us.The trick is keeping him in check.

I'm not a chemist,but I have worked with a chem lab on the other side of the door.SOP was not only no extra chemicals on the bench,but each label was to be read aloud,twice.

A glance is too easy to see what you want to see.

I think we also have to give some credit to Savage.There is destructive testing and engineering involved in a catastrophic failure that does not seriously injure the shooter.

Do you reckon you'll have a flinch to get over? :-)
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Old November 2, 2014, 02:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
All shotgun powders are packaged in green cans.
As said above, pure folly. Handloaders use many, many shotgun powders... for loading handgun rounds. Wholly appropriate and doesn't just "work", it works fantastically well.

The handgun powders are the ones that must be watched. They are the fastest burning, the most dense. They pack the most energy -- the fast burning pistol powders are the ones that can wreck anything. If he had accidentally loaded up 9mm with Varget, even if he had to pound each charge forcibly in to the case, or even if he had loaded Varget up in to a huge piece of .44 Magnum brass, his biggest threat is a stuck bullet.

Agreed that this thread & his relaying the experience is a sobering reminder of what needs to be fully in the control of the handloader. But the very idea that something other than the handloader's own personal attention is needed to avoid this pretty much wastes the value of the thread in the first place.

We don't need help from the powders distributors in the same way that we don't need a sticker on the car door telling us not to slam our finger in it.
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Old November 2, 2014, 02:22 PM   #39
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I have come close to making mistakes myself and like your experience it served as a reminder that reloading is unforgiving. I have to remind myself keep my head in the game, go slow, check everything and then recheck everything.

Thanks for the post and wishing you a speedy and complete recovery!
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Old November 2, 2014, 04:17 PM   #40
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Sorry that it happened man, hang in there get that trigger finger back in shape and then thank your lucky stars, it could've been a lot worse....
Dont let this stop you from handloading.
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Old November 2, 2014, 04:41 PM   #41
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wonder if we can get someone with quikload to see how much psi 40gr of titegroup in a 7mm-08 really is.
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Old November 2, 2014, 05:21 PM   #42
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Thank you for sharing and I hope your hand heals well.

Honestly it really freaks me out.
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Old November 2, 2014, 06:19 PM   #43
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To OP, hope you get well soon, thanks for sharing, we all need reminders of how mistakes can happen and what the consequences can be. I hope you have a speedy and full recovery.
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Old November 2, 2014, 06:25 PM   #44
Gary L. Griffiths
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Quote:
wonder if we can get someone with quikload to see how much psi 40gr of titegroup in a 7mm-08 really is.
Figuring a Sierra 150-gr bullet, 40 grs of Titegroup in a 7mm-08 works out to about 216555 PSI!!!

No wonder the rifle suffered a catastrophic failure!

Glad the OP's injuries weren't more serious. This is a good reminder that in this business, one little mistake can be catastrophic.
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Old November 2, 2014, 07:09 PM   #45
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Now, use QuickLoad to run us a say, 8.0 grain charge of Varget under a 124 grain JHP in 9mm, 4-inch barrel.
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Old November 2, 2014, 07:57 PM   #46
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216000psi. wow, that's amazing. you might be getting a knock from the ATF with a case of "production of a pipe-bomb". you should have the hairiest chest ever after shooting that one


I agree, you probably going to have a horrible flinch after that one, if you can even pull the trigger at all. good luck
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Old November 2, 2014, 08:31 PM   #47
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Imagine what would have happened if he was out deer hunting when it happened.

I hope you don't have to many more of those shells on hand.
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Old November 2, 2014, 08:48 PM   #48
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Question for everybody. In a failure like this, what would be considered a safe distance to avoid injury? It seems like I shoot next to people every week who are shooting their first batch of hand loaded ammo. I will move my stuff to another bench when a muzzle loader sets up next to me. Muzzle loaders always seem to fail, and need help from the R.O. to resolve their failure to fire. Freaks me out.
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Old November 2, 2014, 09:23 PM   #49
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Ouch! Sorry to hear/see this. Wish you a speedy recovery. And mad props for being man enough to post this on the interweb for all to see.
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Old November 2, 2014, 10:57 PM   #50
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That's got to have hurt!

Pray you will heal completely.

This kind of thing scares the snot out of me. I keep the Powder in the walk in closet. Only one container comes out at a time. It has to go back Before a different powder comes out.

Thanks for posting.
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