Game Farm Hunts

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

Unlike some on this forum my opinion is not the verdict on what is hunting and what isn't. If a man wants to do it and it's legal I cannot figure out what business it is of mine.

I agree and, while it's not my cup of tea, it's not a moral issue. It either is or is not moral to kill animals. So long as the kill is "clean", I see no particular distinction as to how it is accomplished.

[nate45]

Some people have ridiculous concepts of space and animal behavior. The idea that a wild animal that lives on thousands of acres and is left to its own devices is just as tame as live stock is silly. In fact I've seen wild cattle that had lived their entire life on their own in the brush. A 1200+ pound wild bull is one of the most dangerous animals that can be encountered in the US.

I'd be willing to bet I could put someone in a 100 acre inclosed space of woods, with 20 deer in it, tell them to walk out there and find them and chances are they'd never see one. Provided the deer were left to raise and feed themselves and not hand raised like a pig, or a calf.


I've never shot raised pheasants, but I have shot pen raised bob-white quail and they flushed and flew just as good as wild ones. The quality quail hunting establishments flight train their quail in a 100 yard long pen, but putting a cat in with them. The slow ones don't make it to being set out.

[Todd1700]

If it stimulates the economy with jobs and money especially in times like these why would I bash something that.

Fine, but you could use that exact reasoning to defend prostitution and the sale of cocaine. They also stimulate the economy with jobs and money.

I don't care for canned hunts but there's no way to make it illegal. At least not without also making it illegal for a farmer to slaughter a hog or a chicken which I would not want to see happen. But it's not hunting and the people who have convinced themselves that it is are in a state of denial.

I just don't get it.

Oh I get it. There is no mystery to me why people do this. In any sport there have always been people who want to cheat. They don't want to learn to be a good hunter and invest the hundreds perhaps thousands of hours it often takes to harvest a trophy of a lifetime type animal. Naaa, to hell with that. That's hard and there's no certainty you will ever achieve it. Lets just shell out 10,000 dollars and skip straight to the assured killing of a tame 170 class buck in a pen part. After all, once they get it home and on their wall no one will know where and under what circumstances they killed it. To me it's like finding a ex NFL player and buying his super bowl ring. Then wearing it around and pretending you once played in a super bowl. Pathetic!

[Buzzcook]

It's one of those "depends" moments.

Taking a pheasant and throwing it in the air in front of a hunter: probably not the most sporting thing. Except of course for hunters in wheelchairs and others folks that can't get into the field.

As to the difficulty of hunting on 8000 acre game farm, geez that's a load.
If the owner of the farm can't point you to right where the animals are, you're being ripped off.

[Art Eatman]

jimbob, a whitetail generally imprints on an area as "home turf" and if water and food are available, lives out its life in not much over a section of land. A high fence around several thousand acres is not doing anything to restrain that deer that it doesn't do to itself.

The majority of Texas hunting country is such that any spooked deer needs no more than a jump or two to be "unshootable". Trees, brush, cactus, etc.

There are several million acres of south Texas brush country where (without stands and clear-cut lanes) there are only two ways to see a deer: Blind luck is one. The other? If a deer stands up on his hind legs and waves at you.

[warbirdlover]

In any sport there have always been people who want to cheat. They don't want to learn to be a good hunter and invest the hundreds perhaps thousands of hours it often takes to harvest a trophy of a lifetime type animal. Naaa, to hell with that. That's hard and there's no certainty you will ever achieve it. Lets just shell out 10,000 dollars and skip straight to the assured killing of a tame 170 class buck in a pen part. After all, once they get it home and on their wall no one will know where and under what circumstances they killed it. To me it's like finding a ex NFL player and buying his super bowl ring. Then wearing it around and pretending you once played in a super bowl. Pathetic!

This is exactly how I feel. Let them do it, I don't care but don't tell me how great a hunter you are. Because, I'll know better. Same as these so called "deer experts" on TV. Take them off the game farms or open land with NO "guide" to lead them to the deer and they'd NEVER get an animal. I don't care how good a shot they are. They couldn't do it. Because they are NOT really hunters.

[rickyrick]

I know of a place that has full on hunting blinds lined up maybe 25 to 50yds apart, no vegetation taller than putting green, with purdy raised elk leisurely milling around.



I may not choose to participate in such activities, but zerojunk said it best.

[compglock17]

Where I live, the "wild" pheasant population went out generations before me. My grandfather could recall hunting wild birds as a kid, but not post WW2. All my pheasant hunting here has been "canned" by necessity. It is a great way to prep a dog for the yearly trip west and to introduce youth to the sport. Even on our game lands, pheasants are released with regularity. I will only do "canned" hunts at two places. Both put the birds out prior to your arrival and the birds are not marked, unless you ask them to be marked for a new dog perhaps. Ill take my lab two or three times before we head west for the wild ones! I don't "like" it and would much rather have sustainable populations of wild birds to hunt, but we do the best we can with what we got!

[phil mcwilliam]

Since game ranches are mainly privately owned, there are huge differences between what they individually offer in game numbers & quality, together with accommodation levels, size of property,number of hunters allowed at one time & how they actually conduct their hunts.
99% of my 35 years of hunting has been free range, which I prefer, but I have also hunted on several large game ranches 160,000 acres to 300,000 acres in size, that could hardly be called "canned hunts". These game ranches were many times in size the home range of the various species of game they contained, with there own river, valley & mountain systems.
When I was in South Africa, I was shown an area that was previously used for a canned hunt of a lion. The area was 100 yards x 100 yards & wire mesh net fence about 15 feet high-similar to a netted in tennis court. The top 4 foot of the fence was angled inwards entangled with razor wire. The "hunter" doesn't even need to enter the enclosure.
Some game ranches offer a hunt that replicates a free range hunt, other game ranches offer what amounts to a canned hunt.

[farmerboy]

I'm also 100% against hunting penned deer, hogs , birds anything really. Yes it may stimulate the economy but if you're going to do that why not make a high fence and throw a bunch of politicians I'n and... How many people would pay for that? But no I couldn't get excited with caged animals!

[Cowboy_mo]

Well we don't have pheasants in my part of MO and I understand IA and IL now have slim pickings also. So if I want to hunt pheasants, it has to be on a game bird place.

Our native quail population has been pretty much decimated by current farming practices and I don't have a dog and refuse to hunt quail without one because I have lost too many cripples and even dead birds without one, so again if I want to hunt quail I have to go the game farm route.

No I don't think walking onto a farm and picking "the buck you like best" for xxx dollars is hunting but I guess if you have enough $$$$ and want to do it that way, it is your choice.

Now, if you want to hunt a lot of truly wild game IN ABUNDANCE, check out Africa. The 18 hour plane ride isn't much fun but you can get the opportunity to take 5 or more animals for less than it costs for a good trophy elk hunt (in the wild) in the U.S. and the best part is if you decide NOT to shoot an animal, you don't get charged for that animal.

[warbirdlover]

I'm okay with game farm bird hunts. I just don't enjoy it like the old days actually hunting corn fields on farms etc. I'll do it again or else sell my O/U shotgun. I don't shoot trap etc anymore. It's the other stuff I dislike.

[RevGeo]

Personally I see no problem with legalized prostitution and cocaine. I do see a problem with canned hunts such as the buffalo hunt I described in my previous post. I believe such 'sport' violates the spirit of the hunt. It seems that as long as man has hunted there has existed a spiritual outlook towards the animals pursued and reduced to possesion (I love that term). At best an almost worshipful attitude and at worst at least some modicum of respect.

I don't give a rat's @$$ about how much slaughtering animals in such a fashion 'benefits the economy'. In the long run (and perhaps the short as well) it benefits nothing. Nothing at all. All it does is dishonor our sport.
The blood sports are a serious business and they should be treated as such. Even predator/pest control should be approached with an attitude of respect, in my opinion.
The outdoor television programs of the past did not portray the death of the animal. I believe that showed respect for the animals. Nowadays they talk about 'whacking and stacking' and show slo-mo shots of the bullet or arrow striking the animal. Please. I have been a professional musician for my entire life and I am ashamed that someone like Ted Nugent shares my vocation. I find Keith Richards to be a paragon of morality by comparison.

I probably have 10-15 years of active hunting and fishing left in me. When I get to the point that I can no longer go afield for my sport I will quit. I wouldn't dream in a million years of having my son push me and my wheelchair up to a fence so I can kill an animal just to be killing an animal.
If I felt the need for that kind of activity I'd take a job at a slaugher house.

George

[warbirdlover]

One other point is that the PETA crew and all the other animal rights nuts could really jump on this and make us all look bad. Just like they do for animal slaughter house!

[Old 454]

I am 53 yrs old and can remember going hunting with my father and god father to a lot of farms where they knew the farmer for years. we also would pick wild mushrooms and Asperagus also. Also when we were done hunting we would share the game with the farmer and sit around a shoot the breeze with them, if it was close to a holiday we would bring them a bottle of there favorite beverage.

One problem I have seen is the loss of farm habitat for the game animals also so called hunters going onto farm property(most with out permission) and tearing it up and the farmers get P.O.ed and wont allow any one to hunt on there property any more, and I dont blame them.

Much has changed over the years so alot of bird hunting does take place on game farms, its a shame but much of the farm land that was once great sorces of hunting pleasure is gone, some through loss of habitat and some through stupidity.

[jimbob86]

I am 53 yrs old and can remember going hunting with my father and god father to a lot of farms where they knew the farmer for years.

I'm 43, and still hunt like that..... some of these farmers remember me from when I was 6 years old riding around in the county road grader with my grandpa......

.....the day I have to pay to hunt is the day I'll hang it up, and leave it to the money men.....

[Rembrandt]

There is a lot about this sport that leaves me scratching my head.....is it more ethical for the game ranch hunter to take an animal with 100% success rate or for the free range hunter who wounds his and fails to recover the animal?


I've found four dead deer on my property this year from free range hunters who wounded and failed to recover....before we get all sanctimonious about who's method is more honorable, let's make sure the job gets done no matter how they're taken.

[603Country]

I used to work for a big company that had large ranches leased for hunting, and my coworkers and I took folks hunting. That wasn't our primary job, but somebody had to do the guiding, so the experienced hunters among us were picked to do it. I absolutely loved it. The deer and hogs were wild and in low fenced areas, but the quail were brought in before the season and used to stock the hunting areas. Only about 15% of the quail survived each winter, so stocking was required to have something for the guests to hunt. Except for a few folks that were good shooters, the quail didn't have much to worry about. But, one year we somehow took delivery of a huge batch of quail that weren't in the least wild. Whenever we'd stop the jeep, the quail would come running and stand around our feet, waiting for us to feed them. We just laughed, and nobody shot any of them (at least not any of my guests). The president of the company did put out a memo saying very strongly that "no quail with even one foot on the ground, even if he was on tippy toes, was to be shot, on penalty of the guide being fired".

And... we were running after Blue Quail one lovely blue sky day, and one of the guests (an obese guy that was doing his best to catch up to those quail), stepped in a hole and lost his balance and sat on a cactus (we were in South Texas). His backside looked like a porcupine. His particular host was a woman (this was back in the 80's) and she came over to me as the guest was hitting some high notes that even Roy Orbison never hit and suggested that since this was a guy, that I should pull the cactus spines out of his tail. Well...I told her that since this was the era of female equality in all things, if it was her guest, it was her job. My guest and I sat and had some coffee as she spent a good 45 minutes bent over this enormous and very white backside pulling spines. I'm all for equality, and have been since the 80's.

Did I wander off topic? Sorry.

[oneounceload]

I've never shot raised pheasants, but I have shot pen raised bob-white quail and they flushed and flew just as good as wild ones.

G;ad that worked for you - pen-raised quail in FL have to get kicked in the butt to get them to move. Don't use a flusher, or you will never get a shot as the dog will catch them alive and bring them back to you.

I miss the wild quail hunting I did out West - about the only drawback to living here now

[nate45]

Like I said, its because they haven't been flight trained. Its like the difference between the different batches of quail 603country wrote about. The ones that didn't take off and fly, weren't flight trained.

The way thats done is with a hundred yard long flight pen. Ever so often a hungry cat is placed in the pen. The quail learn to run and fly, or else...

[mo84]

I agree that the ranch hunts is not real hunting. the deer just arent scared of humans like wild animals. I did hunt in milford once though and you could shoot at them deer and they literally just stand there. I would imagine that is what its like on the ranch hunts. they should try to figure a way to teach the deer to be afraid of humans on these ranches and it would be more like real hunting as some of the ranchs are pretty big.

[reloader28]

I will never hunt that way.
But if they want to pay for it, thats their business.

Personally, I put it in the same category as blind hunting. If it was up to me, I would outlaw EVERY stand and blind in the country. I hate those things.
I would make everyone spot and stalk hunt or else you dont hunt. There would be no sitting on your butt and WAITING for a deer to maybe stumble by. That is not hunting.

But thats just my opinion. It means no more than some of you against the game farms. Its just the way certain people do things.

[HiBC]

As far as the deer and elk hunts,as I understand it,a large part of the CWD outbreak across the country came from near my home;Northern Colorado,a bit east of me.It had to do with an elk ranching operation that shipped CWD carrying elk across the country.IMO,deer,elk,etc do not belong in pens or behind tall fences as livestock.

On pen raised birds;agreed,its not much like hunting.I see one decent reason for it.The dogs.Good wild bird hunting is hard to come by.
Between holding down a job,limited access to good private land hunting,and a lot of public hunting land that is devoid of game.The point is,the bird dog.The dog's passion is bird hunting.

If the dog only hunts wild birds,it may only go on point a few times a year.

Its not so bad if ,six times a year that dog gets a few chukar,or quail,or pheasants that are farmed and planted.

No,as the shooter its not the same.It's not hunting.It does make a dog happy.

The birds are good on the table.In the end,its a more honest connection to your food than skinless,boneless chicken breasts under plastic at the grocery store.

You know,if you eat meat,killing gets done.You can hire someone at the slaughterhouse to do it,out of sight,out of mind...but,never the less,it gets done.Thats OK,to hire it done.Just buy that tube of beef burger at Safeway.

But,really,is it right to disdain someone who is part of the process ?I have no problem with someone shooting a buffalo with his Sharps.There is something honest about killing your own chicken,hog,or Angus.Kill clean,and eat it.

Boils down to:Choose what is right for you,but lets not get too judgemental.

[Gunplummer]

Now and then some one tosses in a post that says if it is legal, then it is O.K. Somebody decided what was ethical or there would not be any game laws at all. Attitudes like that almost wiped out the buffalo. A while back (Some of you have to remember this) a game farm was shut down for selling hunts over the Internet. I mean over the Internet. You literally killed an animal over the Net. That became illegal in a hurry. Seems like there was some ethics/law melding there. The hardest part about ethical hunting is where to draw the line. What is tradition in one area is looked down on in other areas. That is fairly obvious on this forum with discussions about baiting and using trail cams.

[ZeroJunk]

Comparing wiping out the buffalo to game farm hunts is a little bit of a stretch don't you think.

I like these guys who live in the plains talking about somebody who has a 1700 acre thicket stalking something.