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Old November 22, 2015, 01:38 PM   #101
Sevens
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JayCee, fantastic addition to this thread -- much appreciated!

As you go forth, please be extremely careful with the 71gr Berry's plated bullet. I have some of these also, although admittedly, I've done most of my work-ups with a Winchester 71gr FMJ slug that we might argue is of slightly more "durable" construction...? I have no proof of that, it would just seem to make sense as it's a true copper jacket and not an thin plating.

In any case, as the 71gr pill was designed around the .32 ACP, it was never intended for the kind of irrational speeds that we can (easily) reach with .327 Federal. I have been advised from ATK ballisticians that a slug that is run WAY outside it's design scope can warp under pressure and could be subjecting the forcing cone to serious damage if it attempt to slam in to it out-of-round under the full force of pressure. While a .32 ACP FMJ load likely clocks in somewhere in the 800-850 fps range, doubling that fully would be easy to do with the space and pressure range of the .327 Federal.

In fact, in a Contender barrel or something without a flash gap and forcing cone, it might be a really fun project to send a 71gr pill so fast that the time-space continuum skips a beat and Doc Emmitt Brown shows up with a van full of Libyans chasing him... but to do the same in your revolver could wreck it beyond repair.

ATK is using the same rationale with this argument as they do with running .45 Colt lightly jacketed bullets in the .454 Casull and .460 S&W Magnum. It is not to be done to full power. Hornady, Speer and others make bullets specifically for that role and the published loads demand that and abide by it.

Good luck and definitely report back!
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Old November 23, 2015, 09:23 PM   #102
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Sevens, thanks for the heads-up on the Berry's plated bullets. I really just want to use them as low cost plinking rounds for shooting at cans, pine cones, etc. My intention is to use 32 H&R data for the 71 grain FMJ, which should give velocities around 1000 fps. There's data in the Lyman handbook for Bullseye, HP38/W231 and Unique, so hopefully one of those powders will give decent results.
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Old November 24, 2015, 08:50 AM   #103
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Quote:
My intention is to use 32 H&R data for the 71 grain FMJ, which should give velocities around 1000 fps. There's data in the Lyman handbook for Bullseye, HP38/W231 and Unique, so hopefully one of those powders will give decent results.
That bullet to me is intended for 32 Smith & Wesson Long. My understanding is that light bullets need more powder, not less. Using a 32 SWL bullet in a 327 case with a 32 H&R load just makes me cringe. Good luck with that, and keep your squib rod handy.
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Old November 24, 2015, 01:22 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Gun
Using a 32 SWL bullet in a 327 case with a 32 H&R load just makes me cringe.
I guess I don't see it as any different than loading a 357 magnum case with a 38 special load or a 44 magnum case with a 44 special load. The Lyman Handbook (#49) has a number of 32 H&R loads for the 71 grain FMJ that run 1000-1100 fps. I guess I'll find out, but I can't think of any reason why those loads would cause squibs in the slightly larger 327 Fed Mag case.

Perhaps Sevens could weigh in here, since he's used the 71 grain FMJ in some of his loads.
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Old November 24, 2015, 02:11 PM   #105
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My post#38 back on page one has a couple chrono results. And the 71gr plated RN is quite obviously NOT a .32 Smith & Wesson Long bullet, that cartridge was built around lead bullets. The 71gr Plated RN is the plated version of the 71gr FMJ, the standard FMJ load for the .32 ACP.

Small charge of fast burning powder is the ticket for playing with these bullets. Although I am not a big fan of Titegroup due to the heat it always produces, Titegroup would be a winner in this role because I've never met another powder that is as happy occupying a small part of a LARGE volume of case, which will be happening here. Many powders act erratic when they have different opportunities to lay a certain way inside a cavernous case. Titegroup seems to be the best at ignoring this condition.
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Old November 24, 2015, 03:51 PM   #106
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Internet lore might say that one can download to data for a shorter cartridge, same caliber, but there is no published test data, is there?
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Old November 24, 2015, 04:02 PM   #107
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Quote:
My post#38 back on page one has a couple chrono results. And the 71gr plated RN is quite obviously NOT a .32 Smith & Wesson Long bullet, that cartridge was built around lead bullets. The 71gr Plated RN is the plated version of the 71gr FMJ, the standard FMJ load for the .32 ACP.
So bullet jump in a 327 Federal Magnum is okay then? Why not use the right type bullet? When I saw the number 71, I thought of the MO #18 Cowboy I use for 32 SWL, which turns out to be 78 gr, when I look at the box.
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Old November 24, 2015, 04:28 PM   #108
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I went to the 71gr bullet in 2009 when NO BULLET MANUFACTURER ON PLANET EARTH would produce any .312" component jacketed bullet. That's why I tried it.

Do what you like, don't come here and question what we choose to do. You've willfully polluted far too many .327 Federal threads already.
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Old November 25, 2015, 09:07 AM   #109
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Well stated!
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Old November 25, 2015, 02:10 PM   #110
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Quote:
Do what you like, don't come here and question what we choose to do. You've willfully polluted far too many .327 Federal threads already.
I will call out and discuss what seems like questionable information. You started the thread, but you don't own it. I have four 327 Federal Magnum revolvers, reload for them, and intend to be part of any discussion of interest.
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Old November 26, 2015, 10:40 AM   #111
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All of the following were fired from a Lipsey's Ruger Single Seven, 4-5/8". Brass is Starline. All rounds loaded with CCI #500 primers.

[code]
Code:
100 Gr. Hornady XTP, Accurate A-9:
Charge    Mean    SD       CoVar
11.0 gr.   1334    37.26   2.79%
11.5 gr.   1357    56.31   4.15%
12.0 gr.   1385    53.04   3.83%
12.5 gr.   1405    21.90   1.56%
13.0 gr.   1506    19.35   1.29% 

100 Gr. Hornady XTP, H110:
12.5 gr.   1210    53.07   4.39%
13.0 gr.   1230    28.89   2.35%
13.5 gr.   1303    22.44   1.72%

115 gr. Penn Bullets SWCL, Unique:
4.0 gr.     1025     11.03   1.08%
4.5 gr.     1108       7.33    0.66%
5.0 gr.     1186      13.13   1.12%

95 gr. Penn Bullets SWCL, Unique:
4.5 gr.     1159       10.97   0.95%
5.0 gr.     1185        20.28  1.66%


Federal AE Factory 100 gr. JSP:
                1452      12.58    0.87%
Most loads showed some primer flattening (as did most of the loads in Brian Pearce's article in Handloader #294). The 13.0 grains of A-9 produced hard extraction; I'm calling 12.7 grains the maximum for my revolver with this bullet and powder.

Still waiting to find some Alliant 2400.
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Old November 26, 2015, 08:39 PM   #112
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Hey, that's some great test results. Much thanks for sharing. I also ran up to 13.0gr with AA#9 under the 100gr XTP but didn't see any excess pressure signs, but from a different revolver. I still don't have any H110.
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Old November 26, 2015, 09:01 PM   #113
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Yes, good stuff. Thanks, RKG. Your results for 13.0 grains of H110 and the Hornady 100 grain XTP pretty closely matched my results for the same combination, except that I was using a magnum pistol primer. Interesting that Brian Pearce (who's one of the few gunwriters who actually seems to know what he's talking about) advocated the use of a standard (not magnum) pistol primer. It's pretty much dogma that magnum primers are used with slow powders like W296/H110, so that's a departure from conventional thinking.
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Old November 27, 2015, 09:04 AM   #114
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Quote:
I also ran up to 13.0gr with AA#9 under the 100gr XTP but didn't see any excess pressure signs, but from a different revolver. I still don't have any H110.
I'm uncertain as to whether the hard extraction at 13.0 was pressure related or dirty gun related. In the same article, Pearce reported dirty gun related balky extraction for loads under max pressure. I decided to cut back a tad because (1) my objective was 1400 fps and (2) a round that is too slow to extract and reload isn't too practical in the field.

I should add: the fellow who owns Penn Bullets (beautifully cast and lubed slugs, by the way) claims that they are hard enough to go up to 1400 fps. Maybe so, but my own rule is 1200 tops for a plain base lead slug. My 115 gr. loads showed no evidence of leading, were extremely accurate, were pleasant to fire, and would probably make a fine small game or predator round.

Last edited by RKG; November 27, 2015 at 09:11 AM.
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Old November 27, 2015, 09:06 AM   #115
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Yes, good stuff. Thanks, RKG. Your results for 13.0 grains of H110 and the Hornady 100 grain XTP pretty closely matched my results for the same combination, except that I was using a magnum pistol primer. Interesting that Brian Pearce (who's one of the few gun writers who actually seems to know what he's talking about) advocated the use of a standard (not magnum) pistol primer. It's pretty much dogma that magnum primers are used with slow powders like W296/H110, so that's a departure from conventional thinking.
I think the guidance should be when authoritative information causes a problem, not when it doesn't really matter. If the primer spec from a bullet or powder maker says this primer or that and seems to work fine, I don't need to know that someone thinks otherwise, yet without any competitive credentials and while disclaiming any legal concerns.
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Old November 27, 2015, 09:41 AM   #116
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At the risk of over simplifying what is a complex subject:

Some powders can be difficult to ignite under some circumstances. Empirical evidence suggests that the powders in question tend to be spherical in shape, with comparatively high nitroglycerine content and comparatively high burn rate control coatings. Whether or not a higher primer brissance is required seems to depend on charge volume, case shape, ambient temperature, and probably a bunch of other factors.

On the other hand, the downside of magnum primers is that they can introduce a new shot-to-shot variability, where primer brissance contributes not only to propellant ignition (and ignition cross-section), but also makes a contribution to peak pressure.

What Pearce (who has an earlier article on .327 Fed. Mag. reloading, that time using magnum primers) reported was that, for powders including H110 and A-9, the non-magnum primer appeared to yield more consistent velocities and less muzzle blast, with no peak pressure or ignition issues.

For what it might be worth, my rule is that I always use CCI 550s for H110 in .357 Magnum. For Win. 748, I use magnum CCIs for .308 Win., but non-magnum for 5.56 NATO.
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Old November 27, 2015, 09:00 PM   #117
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Just use magnum large rifle primers in all your rounds and they'll all go boom
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Old November 28, 2015, 08:30 AM   #118
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Quote:
Just use magnum large rifle primers in all your rounds and they'll all go boom
Got any references?
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Old December 5, 2015, 08:51 PM   #119
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I worked up some loads for the SP101 using Berry's 71 grain plated bullets. The label on the box said "Maximum velocity: 1250 fps", so I tried to keep the velocities in that range.

I started with 4.6 grains of Bullseye and a Wolf small pistol primer for an average velocity of 1164 fps. I bumped it up to 5.1 grains for an average velocity of 1265 fps, SD=32 and ES=93. Accuracy was good:



Next, I went to 6.0 grains of HP-38 and a Wolf small pistol primer. Average velocity was 1323 fps, ES=114 and SD=27. Group size widened out, although that might have been due to the fact that the rear sight was at the top of its travel so I could get the point of impact closer to the aiming point, and it might have been a little loose as a result:



This load was also in excess of the stated maximum velocity for the 71 grain Berry's plated, so that might have contributed to the inaccuracy. Next time, I'll back off the powder charge a couple of tenths. Muzzle flash from this load was noticeable even in the bright sunlight.

Lastly, I decided to experiment with the 85 grain Hornady XTP and H110. I started at 13.0 grains of H110 and a Winchester WSPM (small pistol magnum) primer. This resulted in an average velocity of 1231 fps, ES=90 and SD=24:



I bumped the powder charge up to 13.5 grains, but by that time the light was fading, and I was getting erratic readings from my chronograph.

I also had 50 handloads consisting of the 100 Hornady XTP ahead of 6.5 grains of CFE Pistol. I experienced some sticky extraction when I tested these loads previously, but I made sure the chambers were clean this time, and I had no difficulty ejecting the brass.

CFE Pistol still seems to give the highest velocities with the Hornady XTP bullets, so I'll probably continue to experiment with CFE Pistol in the 327 magnum.
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Old December 5, 2015, 08:58 PM   #120
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Whoa -- great shooting at 15 yards with all those loads!
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Old December 5, 2015, 11:59 PM   #121
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Quote:
Lastly, I decided to experiment with the 85 grain Hornady XTP and H110. I started at 13.0 grains of H110 and a Winchester WSPM (small pistol magnum) primer. This resulted in an average velocity of 1231 fps, ES=90 and SD=24:
Hmmm....
I should probably check my data.

I'm pretty sure that's what I'm running in .32 H&R brass.
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Old December 22, 2015, 11:53 AM   #122
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Have a couple:

Since the gold standard is the 100gr Federal factory load. I will show the Crono results for those.

Taurus M327 2inch 1264 fps
Ruger sp 101 4.5 inch 1493 fps

I ran some:
100gr XTP's ahead of 13.5 gr LilGun CCI standard pistol primer.

Taurus M327 2 inch =1254 fps
Ruger sp101 4.5 inch= 1427 fps
I tried a few in my Ruger Single 7 and they worked fine. No Crono for that one.
Extraction was fine. Spent primers looked ok.
Close enough for me.
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Old May 18, 2016, 08:18 AM   #123
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Had wanted a .327 for a long time but just didn't "need" one... Finally when the Single Seven came out was just about to buy one when I came across a deal on a special order 6.5" Freedom Arms 97 that was too good to pass up.

Only have made up one load so far.

Accurate Molds 31-120S 120 grain home cast bullet
Starline brass
Winchester SR primer
8.5 grains of AA7
1400 fps chronoed

I only wish that I had purchased a GP100 when they were available... If Ruger would make a run of them in the style of their new 5.5" G100 .22 that would be PERFECT!!

Bob

FA 97 with a Ruger OM Blackhawk .30 Carbine...





The load...





From my friend's Single-Seven...used like new gun for $399.99

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Old May 18, 2016, 02:22 PM   #124
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Gorgeous revolver. I am thinking that if I had a Freedom .327 Federal Magnum... all the others would disappoint.
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Old May 18, 2016, 02:37 PM   #125
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Colt New Police 32 S&W long manufactured 1907, TIG weld reinforced forcing cone, 1.3 Bushnell phantom magnum scope, 85 gr Hornady JHP 1.3" LIL'GUN


And here is what can get my post deleted off a forum:


1413 fps
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