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Old January 8, 2018, 11:48 AM   #1
Ann
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Need help with grip

Okay, after many of you offered sound advice, I ultimately bought a Sig p320 with the Romeo sights. I’m extremely left eyed dominant and equally extremely equally left hand dominant. My problem is that, unfortunately, I had a total wrist and partial ulna replacement in my left hand. Although I’ve been shooting pretty consistent groups, I haven’t found a truly comfortable grip. My index and third finger now share tendon and thus move together. This makes it hard to use my third finger correctly. The only solution I’ve come up with is to teacup the handle with my right hand. This leads me to limp wrist my Sig occasionally. I’m hoping that someone here might have some advice.

I live very far away from any NRA training — at least til late spring.

I enjoy my p320 and thank you all for the invaluable advice I got as tested like 8 other 9mm. Thanks, Ann
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Old January 10, 2018, 04:36 PM   #2
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Ann, there's lots of good videos on You Tube by reputable "been there, done that" folks that know what they are talking about. John Lovell, Kyle Lamb, Dave Spalding, to name a few. Or if you prefer a lady instructor, Try Kathy at corneredcat.com, or Kelly at armedandfemenin.com just a couple good sources. It might get you on the right road and get you better prepared to take a good class when you have the chance.
Good luck.
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Old January 10, 2018, 05:02 PM   #3
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locnload---Thanks for mentioning 'Armed and Feminine'. I hadn't heard of that site before. They linked me over to 'The Well Armed Woman' (TWAW) and I wish there was a TWAW chapter in my area. Sounds like they have fun as well as instruct.

I am quite aware of 'Cornered Cat' and would recommend that site without reservation to anyone, male or female. But since we can't have too much of a good thing I'm glad you mentioned the other sites. For anybody have Google-Fu frustration here's some links.

Armed and Feminine
https://www.armedandfeminine.com/

The Well Armed Woman
https://twawshootingchapters.org/about/

And last but not least, my favorite, 'The Cornered Cat'
https://www.corneredcat.com/
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Old January 11, 2018, 08:46 AM   #4
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Looks like Iocnload and DaleA mentioned some good resources. I don’t have any experience with what you’ve described so I don’t have much advice on how to actually adjust grip but I can say keep with it. I used to coach for 4 position small bore competitions and had a few people who couldn’t get into some of the positions for a variety of reasons. It took time but they were able to work around it and they all became solid shooters.
Keep practicing and keep having fun!
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Old January 11, 2018, 11:08 AM   #5
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I've been thinking about this situation since the original post. I'm not sure online videos will have a solution to Ann's problem, because she has a special situation. Ann, I'm not sure I understand how a teacup hold addressed your problem. If the trigger finger and third finger of your shooting hand are moving together, it would seem to me that a stronger grip with your support hand would be the solution that kept your pistol on target better, rather than decreasing support. What am I not getting?
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Old January 22, 2018, 04:27 PM   #6
Ann
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TailGater, I use a teacup grip because my dominant (left) hand cannot close completely around the grip. When my index finger is on the trigger or indexed along the barrel, my third finger has no contact with the gun. Only my thumb and weakened ring and pinky fingers have contact and not much strength. By wrapping my non-dominant hand under the base of the grip and using my fingers I can control my grip to a point.

At this point, I’m considering using my non-dominant hand to fire my Sig: yes, I’m left eyed dominant but I’ve gotten used to using my non-dominant hand as though it were dominant. Thoughts?
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Old January 22, 2018, 04:29 PM   #7
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And thanks for all the excellent websites!! They’ve been helpful.
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Old January 22, 2018, 06:42 PM   #8
mete
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Tea cups are terrible !
You must find what works for YOU ! Not the NRA a gun writer not a great target shooter !
I started out looking at two popular systems. then I injured my elbow .So I had to develop my own system which is somewhere between the two --but it works very well.
Grips are the same thing .It would be nice if you knew someone who had experience making custom grips , again for YOU !
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Old January 22, 2018, 06:53 PM   #9
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Ann,

I, too, am left handed and have arthritis in both hands.

I am finding that with age and an ability to "grip" a pistol the way that has in the past proved to be pretty precise I am having to change my grip.

I do not have the strength in my hands that I had even a year ago. In the early 2000s I had debridement surgery on my shooting hand that left the two smaller fingers some what debilitated....and now worse. I also had a complete left shoulder replacement in 2000.

Instead of aligning the V of my shooting hand and arm (as per many shooting instructors) I am changing my arm position some and holding my elbows outward more. I am also consciously forcing my support hand to grip tighter (kinda trying to compensate for the arthritis). On smaller gripped pistols I have more problem than on full sized pistols.

Still a work in progress, but I have noticed a markedly improved shot grouping. I still have not got the total muscle memory down yet, but I see hope.

My shooting currently is at 7-10 yards while changing the grip and if the target was an attacking human, we would be having an inquest on the perp. As I become more comfortable with the changes I will move out further. It is taking a lot of ammo and shooting time.....and I actually enjoy that.

Basically, the commonly taught shooting positions/grips/whatever are not now viable for my preference to a more precise shot grouping.

It is a work in progress. Good luck to you!
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Old January 23, 2018, 08:30 PM   #10
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Forgive me if I am being dense, but if I understand you correctly, you use your right hand to squeeze your dominant left hand firmly from below. If you rotated your right hand to the front right of the grip instead of the bottom and did the same thing you would be close to the grip that is widely taught these days. Have you tried that, or does the mobility of your right hand not allow it?
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Old February 27, 2018, 05:06 PM   #11
Ann
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The problem with moving my support hand is twofold. When I try to move it to the front of the grip, I have a problem because my second finger sticks straight out when I use the trigger (or even when I index along the frame). Second issue is that I use the end of my support hand’s forearm to support my shooting wrist as my wrist muscles were removed when I got the metal wrist. Even though I use wrist supports, I have a tendency to limp wrist unless I brace my wrist with my support forearm.

I’m trying different grips but haven’t yet found the solution. Oddly I have no problems with long guns, even a Mauser 8.
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Old February 27, 2018, 09:34 PM   #12
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Ann,

Would switching to using your right hand as your dominant hand be terribly difficult for you, or just annoying? Because given your descriptions of what's going on, & what's possible for you right now, that would probably be my recommendation.

To be clear, that you are left eye dominant makes absolutely no difference which hand to use while shooting. I know USPSA Grandmasters who shoot with the right hand but are left eye dominant. It's just not an issue for modern handgunning, although it can be (is!) an issue for long guns.

But that you describe yourself as strongly left handed might be an issue. Good shooters can and do learn to shoot well with either hand, but most people find it considerably easier to learn things at the beginning using the preferred hand.

There's nothing wrong in finding adaptations that work well for you -- even the dreaded teacup! -- as long as those adaptations do work well for you. Since right now, that doesn't seem to be doing the job, I'd think about learning to shoot as a right hander instead.

Hope this helps.

pax

PS -- I'm a left-handed/ambidextrous person and am also neither-eye dominant. Learning to shoot, for me, was a long exercise in frustration until one of my mentors finally snapped, "For crying out loud, Kathy! Just pick one!"
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Old February 27, 2018, 09:37 PM   #13
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By the way, here's an excellent article that describes what a good grip on the gun should do. A careful read might help you absorb enough of the principles that you can make better adaptations to what you've been doing.

https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress...cs-get-a-grip/

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Old February 28, 2018, 06:34 AM   #14
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I see you've tried other 9mm pistols and went with the Sig p320, a fine choice. I've broken my index finger twice on my main hand, and my middle finger once, same hand. Sometimes my second knuckle pinches my tendon and the pain makes me unable to bend it for a good 10-15 minutes. Proper grip and stability is a must for me. If limp wristing becomes more prevalent, I'd like to mention you trying out a revolver. I have a GP100 that I can shoot all day long with .38 special, due to me being able to use what grip/strength I want and at no risk of malfunctions. There are also gloves on the market that make gripping things easier(not necessarily shooting gloves, but they work just the same).

-Sig
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Old February 28, 2018, 07:35 AM   #15
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Ann have you purchased a small grip module for the 320?
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Old March 2, 2018, 03:52 AM   #16
Ann
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Another batch of great ideas! I had thought of using my right hand as my trigger hand but thought it might screw up my sighting. I got the small grips for the Sig a couple of months ago. If it ever stops raining, I’ll head out to the farm and try out switching hands as well as some other ideas you all have suggested — that, hopefully will be early next week.

I have an old S&W model 10(?) that isn’t much different than the Sig.

I appreciate all the advice and will post as soon as I can. Unfortunately, there’s no indoor range close to me so I have to dodge the weather and use my homemade range.

Thanks for all the help!
Ann
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Old March 2, 2018, 06:45 AM   #17
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The S&W model 10's have a solid track record. Lots of aftermarket gripd for them too: wood, rubber, with or without finger grooves, ect. Looking forward to hearing about your next range trip!
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Old April 11, 2018, 07:37 PM   #18
Ann
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I finally got enough range time to work out my grip issues. First, I bought a Sig SP2022. Both it and my P320 are 9mm. I found the SP2022 much easier to work with — and I got pretty tight groups. Using the SP2022, I figured out a grip that works for me. First I wrapped my left hand and part of my forearm with athletic tape. That helped with the striker fire recoil. As I’ve finally gotten the okay from Sig to send the P320 for the recall, I’ll be able to upgrade the trigger as soon as I get it back. I’m assuming the Gray Gun trigger is my best choice. I’ve become much more comfortable with the P320’s recoil now that I’ve got a workable grip. Basically, I’ve repositioned my thumbs and use my right hand as the load bearing hand. I did try using my right hand as my trigger hand but my groups were better with my left hand as trigger hand. So thanks all, I think I’m getting both more comfortable and competent. Your ideas really helped.
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Old April 14, 2018, 06:25 AM   #19
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One quick question. Are you using these guns for self defense or just target shooting? If you are using them as defensive handguns I recommend working on learning to shoot with your right hand. If you need tonise the gun for self defense you will not be able to tape your hand beforehand.

A good friend of mine had a major hand injury that very painful to shoot with her left hand as the primary. She was a seasoned shooter but retrained herself to shoot right handed. She is left eye dominate and IIRC by canting the pistol slightly she was able to shoot accurately with both eyes open.

It will be slow going at first but the end result will be a platform you can shoot from in any scenario. Assuming that you have enough strength and motion in the left hand to manipulate the slide and and clear standard malfunction.

This does not mean you have to abandon shootIng left handed but if self defense is a consideration learning tonshoot right handed would be my advice.
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Old April 14, 2018, 08:44 PM   #20
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gray guns competition trigger kit will drop the trigger about 2lbs. After the upgrade they are about 5.5lbs. With the kit you should be in mid 3lbs
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Old April 15, 2018, 08:50 PM   #21
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I'm going to also suggest trying to shoot right handed and cross eye dominant. That way you can master the trigger without involving a moving middle finger. Your true strong hand now becomes the support hand and only has to grip the gun. Many top shooters shoot cross dominant. Sometimes they use their dominant eye and sometimes their dominant hand. It will take time to feel confidant with this but most of it can be done through dry firing.
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