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Old March 8, 2018, 11:22 AM   #1
mumblyj0e
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PS90 Alternatives- Home defense for my tiny wife

So, I've been looking at a ps90 as a home defense weapon for a a few reasons:
1. My wife is a lefty, I'm not
2. My wife is tiny (about 5'3") and can't shoulder my AR15
3. She can't handle handgun recoil particularly well either, even full size 9mm platforms with some mass are a bit much for her. She favors my 9mm Glock but doesn't "like" it. My heavier 1911 (which I find much smoother in terms of recoil than the glock, despite being a .45) is hard for her to operate.
4. She has trouble racking the slide most handguns
5. She has small hands and can't reach some controls.

Most rifles & shotguns are out, most handguns are out. I'm going to be traveling for a few months/year for work so she'd like to have something she can use by herself that would give her an advantage in a home invasion. Something she enjoys shooting and practicing with is obviously key. Of course I wanna shoot it too and kind of make it THE go-to weapon in the house, so this would really be the weapon for both of us.

One thing we both liked a lot was the ps90 we rented at the local range.
She liked the recoil, the weight, the brass dropping out the bottom, & the completely ambidextrous setup. For her size and strength it is the perfect firearm, plus it's fun as hell.

Of course, the caliber is the problem. From what I've seen, the 5.7 hollow points don't expand reliably and even the American Eagle FMJ stuff becomes armor-piercing and over-penetrates. I've heard there are stopping power issues too, although with 50 rounds and the better accuracy due to low recoil, it seems like the PS90 could be quite lethal.

I know there's other stuff out there but is there anything that ticks some of those ergonomics boxes while sticking to 9mm? I looked at the CZ Scorpion Evo and Sig MPX and even the classic mp5 clones. The option of sub-sonic ammo and a silencer look would be a serious bonus. I'd love to get all of them for myself and the MPX in particular looks like it ticks some of those ambidextrous boxes, but putting a grip and a stock to get my wife some of the PS90 stability would be necessary. Filing for an SBR sounds like a pain in the ass- especially since we live right near a state border and my family lives right on the other side of it. We'd have to file for intended travel constantly if we want to take it over to their house to shoot it (they have a decent range on their property).

Conversely, any ammo recommendations for the PS90 that might make a better home defense option?

Thanks!
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Old March 8, 2018, 01:17 PM   #2
TrueBlue711
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I also have a short wife (she's 5'0"). Her rifle of choice is the AR and has her own. Why can't your wife shoulder your AR? Does it have a fixed full length stock on it? If so, maybe get a collapsible stock so it can fit both of you.

If she likes the PS90, maybe she'll like other bullpups too. Try the Tavor, FS2000 or Styer AUG. Tavor is more popular and plentiful. Hopefully a local gun range has one to rent out for her to try.

But it almost sounds to me that the PS90 is the winner. If that's what she likes and is most comfortable with it, that may be what you should go with. I agree, the 5.7x28 caliber isn't really known for it's stopping power. But placing multiple shots on target will put an intruder down all the same. Federal makes a 40 grain self defense load, but not sure how effective it is.
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Old March 8, 2018, 02:01 PM   #3
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thanks man!
I think it's mainly a strength thing- asian women don't do strength training and I'm already fighting an uphill battle getting her used to firearms as a right in the first place. it's a standard M&P setup with a collapsible stock plus a fore-grip and some magpul hardware I added but she just can't hold it up.
Do you the AUG and the Tavor have similar recoil? For me 5.56 is nice and light but I think you're right, the physics of a bullpup might be what makes it easier for her. Unfortunately no one has one locally. I'll look at what there is around- I know one shop has an MP5 but otherwise we're a bit limited.
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Old March 8, 2018, 02:54 PM   #4
TrueBlue711
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Quote:
Do you the AUG and the Tavor have similar recoil?
I own an FS2000 and the recoil is better on it than my ARs and other 5.56 semi-auto rifles. With bullpups, the action takes place closer to the shoulder, so makes the recoil directed more rear-ward vs. upward on the muzzle...if that makes any sense. And with the weight distributed more in the butt of the gun, they're easier to hold up for longer periods of time. Only problem from the bullpups I mentioned is the overall weight is heavier than an AR (depending on the AR build). But the weight distribution is much better and you don't notice it when you shoulder it.

And you're right, a pistol-caliber carbine would be another good choice. I would keep the barrel short or she would have a hard time lifting it just like with the AR. If you don't want to wait for the SBR paperwork, many of the pistol braces are comfortable as well.

Last edited by TrueBlue711; March 8, 2018 at 03:00 PM.
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Old March 8, 2018, 03:02 PM   #5
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Your wife is smaller than this young lady?

Maybe she needs better instruction in gun handling. They really aren't any heavier than a 2 month old baby. Some folks just find them awkward until they've had some good lessons. No knock on you, but I know my 5'2" wife learned alot better from someone else, than from me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZE-EDGw2vo
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Old March 8, 2018, 04:37 PM   #6
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Have you attempted to have her properly use a sling to support some of the weight?
Is she as interested as you think she is?

An AR weighs less than my wife's purse. I don't think it is really a strength issue.
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Old March 9, 2018, 01:21 PM   #7
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My wife is 4'11" and 95lbs soaking wet. While she's shot my 1911s, My G21 and G23, my custom Glock G20L, she's not a fan. Hates my AR carbine as it's too bulky. Hates my son's Hi-Point 40 Carbine as too much recoil. Likes my Rossi '92 in 357mag but hates my Uberti '66 in 45 Colt. Doesn't mind my Mossberg 464 30-30 with plinking loads but would rather shoot something else. My 5'3" 120lb daughter pretty much agrees with her mom's choices too.

However, they both love my M1 Carbine - my wife says it's her's for HD. It's her 'No. 1' because the M1 Carbine's 30 Carbine load is not as loud and sharp as the 5.56 caliber so it's not so punishing inside the house with no ear protection. With a 15rd or 30rd mag of 110grn JSP at 2,000fps, it's a potent close range defensive weapon.



Recently, they've both been taken by my tweaked Mini-14. Again, they like the compact size and conventional controls. My wife says it's her 'No. 2' for HD. While she likes to shoot it at the range, the 5.56 rd is very loud inside with ear protection. However, with a 20rd mag of 62grn JSP at 3,000fps, it's a very potent close range defensive weapon.



So both of them "like" small, compact carbines. That's not surprising as we teach an NRA beginners shooting class at our range and we've found over and over that ARs are way too bulky for most children and small women. After they graduate from the 22lr rifles we let them try their 1st centerfire. I've laid out my AR lightweight mid-length carbine, my Mini-14, and my M1 Carbine and almost all of the women and smaller kids pass right by the bulky looking AR and choose between the Mini and M1 Carbine. As the Carbine weighs over a lbs less, that's the one most pick.

Those few who choose the AR are likely to switch after we give them a review of the controls and let them heft one. They say it's too big, too bulky, too confusing on the control, and the pistol grip is too big a change from the 22 rifles for them.
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Old March 9, 2018, 02:51 PM   #8
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KelTec sub 2000 in 9MM that uses Glock mags.
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Old March 9, 2018, 04:16 PM   #9
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I'll second that. . .

KelTech Sub 2000 (Gen 2) in 9mm that uses Glock mags.
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Old March 9, 2018, 04:39 PM   #10
erichard
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Or Keltic SU-16c...under 5lbs for .556. Women love that gun.

I have the PS90 as well. It's a very good gun. Almost boringly easy. The rounds are effective (eg. Ft Hood mass murderer used the pistol version in very deadly fashion), and there are home invaders who use body armor, which the PS90 should handle well. With no muzzle flip or recoil, you can send beaucoup de rounds down range pretty fast, pretty accurately. It's good for inexperienced shooters because they are really unlikely to develop a flinch with the low recoil.

It's basically an under 100 or 150 yard gun which is fine for most things. I don't believe the ammo is meant to expand even when they have a hollow point.

The other advantage of this gun is how easy it is to haul quite a lot of ammo even relative to .556, which already is significantly lighter than many rifle rounds. Not relevant for normal times, but in a SHTF scenario, it is relevant.
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Old March 9, 2018, 05:11 PM   #11
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I was gonna say how about an AR "pistol" in 9mm. Could do a small barrel like 8" so you get full speed on the 9mm but its still short enough that she wont have a bunch of extra weight handing out. Also the stock....err...brace is adjustable so she can set it just where she wants for comfort. And you can build an AR pretty light, and being its short it'll just be that much more weight reduction.

Choices choices but good on ya for gettimg her geared up.
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Old March 9, 2018, 05:32 PM   #12
erichard
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What makes a nice, powerful pistol in 8.5 inch barrel is .300 BLK. That gun is sweet. Put a Kak brace on it. That is small, light, and potent. Recoil is not to bad. Get a suppressor on it, and she'd love it.
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Old March 9, 2018, 06:30 PM   #13
erichard
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That all said, my wife's pick is the 10/22 with 25 rd mag. I showed her how she could pour bullets out of it if the need arose. It's also cheap for practice. A good way to gently get someone into the sport. Seems pretty reliable for a rimfire gun.
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Old March 9, 2018, 06:42 PM   #14
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I was going to recommend the 9mm Sub2000. I also like the idea of a 9mm AR pistol. The AR pistol doesn't need a brace. Sure they are nice, but the buffer tube under the cheek gives three points of contact, and is very stable. 30+ rounds of 9mm is formidable
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Old March 10, 2018, 09:17 AM   #15
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Youth sized .410 shotgun
http://www.mossberg.com/product/510-...-bantam-50362/
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Old March 10, 2018, 10:48 AM   #16
johnwilliamson062
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I won't be using a 556 to investigate bumps in the night inside my house until I have a set of expensive electronic ear plugs. Especially a short barrel one. 300 blk can't be much different. Unless you can suppress.
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Old March 10, 2018, 01:29 PM   #17
T. O'Heir
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The 5.7 hollow points are almost impossible to come by and are expensive when you do find 'em.
"...we both liked..." 'We' doesn't apply. And her size means nothing. Had a 5 foot nothing female Army Cadet who could shoot circles around most of the big strapping lumps of the teenage guys with a 12 pound FAL, a 9 pound .303 Brit Lee-Enfield or a .22.
She needs to shop for what she likes and feels right to her. You get no say at all. However, it really should not be a rifle of any kind. All of 'em have too much penetration. A Youth model, semi-auto, 20 gauge on the other hand...
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Old March 10, 2018, 02:00 PM   #18
PoiDog
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Each person is different. My wife is well under 5 feet tall, and over 65. She can shoot a 1911 with no problems. Her problem has been racking the slides on some semi-autos. We can fix that with technique, but it remains a problem for her on some guns.
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Old March 10, 2018, 04:02 PM   #19
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Wouldn't hurt to get her into Aikido classes as well.
Martial Arts increase hand/wrist/arm strength through their very nature.

Besides, it's kinda fun when yer Wifey tosses ya on the floor and takes advantage of you
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Old March 11, 2018, 10:19 PM   #20
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Another option to maybe look at is the Sig MPX. Controls are pretty much like an AR but in 9mm. Nice and short, folding brace is handy. Almost no recoil and more ammo options than the 5.7
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Old March 11, 2018, 10:35 PM   #21
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The PS90 is fine. If you look up actual shooting accounts, the rifle and caliber
both work really well. The Secret Service uses them. That ought to tell you something.
Use the FN SS197SR (blue tip) ammo. FN knows what they are doing.
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Old March 12, 2018, 09:09 AM   #22
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Would your wife consider a Beretta CX4 Storm?

My wife is 5'1" (skinny and late 40s) and she is not a firearms enthusiast, but she can hoist up my recently purchased CX4 (that takes Beretta 92 magazines) pretty well.

The Storm has a removable stock spacer to shorten length of pull. The charging handle and ejection is easily reversible from right to left. The safety and mag catch are also reversible, but it takes a bit more effort. The bolt release is not reversible, but the shooter can just use the charging handle to release the bolt.

The empty weight of a CX4 is 5.7 pounds and the overall length without stock spacers is 29.75". So, the CX4 is 3.5" longer than a PS90, but the CX4 is about a 1/2 lb. lighter without ammo.

The weight of my CX4 with full 15 round magazine, micro red dot on a 1/2" riser, and a lightweight carry strap is only 6.7 lbs. Other mag capacities are available from MecGar and Beretta at 18, 20, and 30 rounds.

In comparison shooting with my friend's PS90, the CX4 has a bit more felt recoil. But's it's just a slightly bigger push, not a bone jarring event.

If your local range has a rental CX4 available, it might be worth your wife giving it a try.

http://www.womenandguns.com/?p=1245

Last edited by chicharrones; March 12, 2018 at 09:41 AM.
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Old March 13, 2018, 07:17 PM   #23
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Apple a Day has the same idea I was gonna mention. A mossberg 500 in .410 with a short/youth stock should be perfect for your wife.
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Old March 13, 2018, 07:29 PM   #24
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Personally, I think the CZ Scorpion is a great option... Easy to handle, not a lot of blast and it runs hollow points reliably unlike my AR 9.
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Old March 13, 2018, 08:37 PM   #25
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I'd see if you can find a new Ruger PC 9mm Carbine for her to fire. It uses Glock which would interchange with your Glock pistol.
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