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Old December 18, 2005, 04:43 PM   #26
steve154
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As long as you are justifiable in your use of force, who cares if they get sued and you get fired. Screw the policies. It is your life and you have an absolute right to defend it. As long as whatever company refuses to put policies in place to protect their employees then they deserve whatever they get. I don't know what the answer is, but it is not sending a guy/gal into a high crime area, with a likelyhood of being confronted with armed thugs, and telling the employee that he can have no means to defend himself. Saying to get another job is easy to say. There are many drivers who work delivering as a second job so they can feed a family just a little bit better. Animals victimizing children and honest working people make my blood boil. Imagine the drop in pizza robberies if the thugs knew that their robbery attempts would be answered with gun fire.
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Old December 18, 2005, 04:55 PM   #27
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Steve,

If the pizza company gets sued, they will probably try to pass the buck by saying they have a strict no firearms policy. I'm not sure if they would go so far as to try and sue the driver (probably not that much to sue for). Assuming it is a justified shooting, you will probably just lose your job and have your boss pat you on the back as you leave. My concern is if some scumbag doesn't even give you a chance to draw your weapon, much less return fire. You have to remember that you are going into their turf and there could be a bad guy lurking in every dark nook and cranny. The pizza guy could have been more aware of his surroundings but what if those guys were looking in conspicuous and jumped out of the car last second? I don't think I'll go back to those days of making deliveries in bad areas. I'm worth more than minimum wage plus tips.
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Old December 18, 2005, 08:21 PM   #28
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WAR_Doctor

I've patched up more than a dozen delivery people in ERs, from having been attacked by thugs, or, I like the term noted above, goblins. The danger you speak of is very real, I've seen it first hand, many time, and you and your peers are probably considered "easy targets."
Some states obviously have very stud laws regarding carrying in your car; New Mexico sound prettry progressive on this issue, but think about blue states like NY, MA, CA, etc.
Maybe your should carry hi capcaisin pepper spray, or maybe a taser; I don't think its a felony to carry a taser in many states.
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Old December 18, 2005, 09:22 PM   #29
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I think I read that Rich Davis (founder of Second Chance Body Armor and sponsor of the Second Chance Pistol Match) used to deliver pizza and actually shot some criminals in the act of trying to rob him. Can't remember where I read the story but it was pretty interesting. I think he was concerned about the area and the look of the surroundings so he had his gun, I think it was a .22 revolver, in his hand under the pizza delivery box.

Some of the members who know much more than I do might know the story.

Gun in the car is not much help when you are walking to the door of a bogus address.

John
Charlotte, NC
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Old December 18, 2005, 09:37 PM   #30
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Stephen,

All real possibilities and you make good points. A guy may very well be caught completely off guard, or by surprise and not be able to defend himself even if he does have a gun. That is not the point. The point is that you are helpless, no matter what, against armed scum if you don't have a weapon to fight back with. If you have a weapon and the skill and will to use it you can at the minimum give yourself a chance. Proper training goes with the responsibility of carrying a weapon and proper training includes situational awareness at all times. Not a constant state of stress and ready to fight, but a simple awareness of what is going on around you. If you lack that, 10 guns carried on your belt will do you no good.


Steve
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Old December 18, 2005, 09:45 PM   #31
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I worked as a delivery guy since I was 16 (before the Domino's craze) and worked for many different companies until I was 30-something (part-time, in between jobs, etc). It's good money, easy, but with it's risks in a few areas. I've been scared on numerous occassions. If run came up in a bad area, it was timed, no lit car sign, only go if door light was on, etc. Every delivery place is looking for drivers. Don't ask, don't tell. Screw company policy. Be lawful. Maglight 3-D. I would carry a .380 in an oven mitt under the pizza in case and carry it that way. No one ever knew or asked about it. Also, if going to a bad area, I'd call ahead and tell them to turn on all the outside lights and tell me what kind of car was in the driveway.
The one time a firearm was shown to me while inside a home, and a robbery was joked about, it was a pop-gun. They fired while my back was turned, I realized what it was, left with their money and absolutely tore up their front yard doing doughnuts and running over shrubbery! They called the home office to complain and was told they were lucky they weren't shot dead on the spot and to pay $200 or be prosecuted! My bosses knew I needed extra money and surprised me with that bonus a month later! (They didn't tell me about the deal until they gave me the cash!)
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Old December 18, 2005, 11:17 PM   #32
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And since there were four bad guys to the one good guy, disparity of force would have certainly been an acceptable justification to employ deadly force. The issue is had I done that, I would have been fired immediately after the incident for having a gun while working for Domino's.
Welcome to corporate Amerika, Glock31. Dead minimum wage employee? Fine and dandy. Lawsuit from the survivors of a justifiably killed POS thug? NO WAY!! Do whatever you have to do to keep yourself safe, my friend.

I delivered pizzas for a worthless pizza chain (Noble Roman's of Indiana, known by employees as "Noble Scrotums") for awhile and only had one threat. I was at some low life's house delivering a pizza one night - the low life in question was s**t-faced, his wife and 8 year old boy being there to see him in all his stewed glory.

After he paid me, he said, "You know, I had a roommate that killed a pizza guy for a pizza and his money one night." Something went off inside me - it was like something broke; I heard this voice in my head that said, "If you come around that coffee table at me, I swear to God I"ll kill you right here in front of your wife and kid."

Every muscle in my body involuntarily tensed up from an adrenaline dump. I said to this POS, "So are you going to try to kill me for my money?" He said, "Naw - I'm not a killer like he was."

At the moment, I was armed only with my 4" Cold Steel Voyageur folder, but it wasn't even in my thoughts. If this guy had of come at me, I would have crushed his windpipe and got in my car and gone about my work. He had no clue how close his [email protected]$$ comments had brought him to death. My seven years of Tae Kwon Do training would have overcome his liqiud [email protected]$$ induced bravery, I'm pretty sure.

I was jacked up on adrenaline for the next two hours - and I was livid that this low life had tried to intimidate me with his stupidity. I told my wife about it and she freaked - she wanted me to quit the job that day. I did work two more weeks, till I caught some attitude from my boss and told her to go have marital relations with herself.

The moral of the story is this: Keep yourself safe at any cost, and don't stay in a dead-end job too long. Even pizza delivery guys are human beings and deserve some respect.
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Old December 18, 2005, 11:34 PM   #33
backfromthefuture
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Isn't the Glock 31 the glock thats has the .357 caliber with a 15round clip.
How is the gun? I was debating between it and a glock 21.
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Old December 18, 2005, 11:55 PM   #34
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WOw, i have a new respect for pizza guys. I never realized the threat they come under.
+1

I think I'll start tipping even better.
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Old December 19, 2005, 03:00 AM   #35
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backfromthefuture,

The glock 31 is indeed the .357 model. However I put a drop-in .40caliber barrel in it cause I had already gotten all the extended controls on the handle and didn't want to buy a whole new gun. I had already traded the glock 21 which I believe is the 9mm with the full length extended barrell and slide for the 31. I didn't want to go through that again just to bump up calibers, thus the drop-in barrell. Plus it only takes about thirty seconds to quickly swap out barrells and I have a whole new caliber to start firing away with.

I've worked pizza delivery for about two years off and on before and after my military stint. Funny i've never had an incident, guess i'm just lucky in that regard. One of the other driver's that used to work with me was returning from a delivery and was waiting at the intersection light next to the shop. Some dude in front of him started to go through the light then stopped suddenly, started to go again and stopped suddenly again, then repeated it again. We think he was just trying to piss my co-worker off. My friend swerved around passed him real quick and pulled into the shop parking lot, then the guy followed and parked aways in front of my buddy. He got out and started walking towards the shop. My buddy said he considered pulling his glock .45 and hiding it on him just in case as he was going to go in to the shop but didn't think the guy would really do anything so he left it in his car. As soon as he got out and closed the door, the dude changed direction and rushed him, grabbed him by the shirt and shoved him up against his car a few times. My friend slugged him across the eye, and the dude let him go and walked away. After my friend called the cops, they caught the guy and brought him back to the shop to hash the whole thing out. And the most unbelievable thing is the cops took my friends' license #, address, phone number, and social security number for the police report, AND GAVE THEM TO THE DUDE! Then they took the same information from the offender and gave it to my friend. We were all thinking, "What the hell are they doing!?" It's like an invitation courtesy of the police to have your identity stolen. Then they let the dude go cause there was no real proof other than my buddy's bruised chest and the dude's swollen eye. Go figure.
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Old December 19, 2005, 05:53 AM   #36
Solomon Kane
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Quote:
I think I read that Rich Davis (founder of Second Chance Body Armor and sponsor of the Second Chance Pistol Match) used to deliver pizza and actually shot some criminals in the act of trying to rob him. Can't remember where I read the story but it was pretty interesting. I think he was concerned about the area and the look of the surroundings so he had his gun, I think it was a .22 revolver, in his hand under the pizza delivery box.

Some of the members who know much more than I do might know the story.

Gun in the car is not much help when you are walking to the door of a bogus address.
This can be found in massad Ayoob's book The Ayoob Files which is a great book. I recommend it highly.
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Old December 19, 2005, 07:09 AM   #37
Topthis
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I was a pharma rep for a few years, company policy was that we were not allowed to carry weapons in the car or on our person...the cars are provided by the company. I carried when I went to my storage unit. I estimated that I had close to $300k in meds in my storage unit. A number of reps have been mugged for the meds they carry in their trunk, Viagra had an especially high market value. Even though the majority of reps do not carry controlled substances, there is a high dollar value on the meds that we did carry, have you seen the prices of prescription meds??. Besides, most thugs really don't know what we have and assume that we have valuable controlled substances. Many reps have to travel secluded rural areas and make stops in the most distant and remote parts of the U.S. This was a highly debated subject, the drug companies will quickly cover over any event where a rep is mugged and the meds taken. Pharma reps make an especially good target, because they work alone and the majority are females in dresses and heels.
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Old December 19, 2005, 10:00 AM   #38
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I believe that the pizza delivery job is now the most dangerous job in the US, surpassing Alaskan fishermen and lumberjacks. It is a pretty sad state of affairs.
Actually, it is:
1. Cab Driver
2. Police
3. Pizza Delivery
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Old December 19, 2005, 10:03 AM   #39
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Aww [email protected]^^n, third place? I didn't think I was THAT bad off!
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Old December 19, 2005, 01:06 PM   #40
BatmanX
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I know I know.
I delivered off and on for 6 years (3 solid during that time) and only recently when helping the owner with a couple of shifts had an incident. The home owner thought I took too long, and was threatening me. So I asked if he wanted the food or not (we delievered everything on the menu) and he started getting pissy - and put his finger in my chest.
I took one step back, grabbed the phone and got the owner on the line, hung up, their phone rang, and I said have a nice day.

Owner called them and threatened to call the police.

Needless to say, they no longer get delivery from any establishment in the town. We share info.

On the ranking thing. It is a general list that I hear over and over. Doing any 2 minute research says otherwise (put no one believes what is on the internet anyway!). Oh well. I know because of 9/11, firefighters are usually at the top now. Timber workers and fisherman are also pretty high.
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Old December 19, 2005, 06:24 PM   #41
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There was an article in the paper in Buffalo NY about 6 months ago where 2 16 year olds tried to rob a pizza guy with a pellet gun. The man had his CCW and shot one of the kids in the head. No charges were filed. The article made it on to packing.org if you want to read it.
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Old December 20, 2005, 05:20 PM   #42
ws6_keith
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I've worked for Domino's and Pizza Hut, both of which have the same policy on firearms - not allowed. I have always carried anyway, in a fanny pack, that fits the job. As said above, keeping the job is not worth getting hurt over.

BillCA and gdeal, while it's not a $100k/year job, it probably pays better than you think (about 2x what you stated BillCA). I could pretty easily pull in $20/hr for a 5-hr shift 3-5 nights a week after my regular job. Got the downpayment for my house in 4 months.

I lived in Gainesville, FL during the student murders, and started delivering pizza shortly after the guy was caught. We still had instances where drivers were robbed at gunpoint, which is why I chose to carry.

Oddly enough, I was in the back of the store doing dishes at 3:30am one morning and some thugs came in and robbed the owner up front - me and the other guy never heard it happen...we thought he was joking when he got on the phone saying he was calling 911 and had just been robbed.

I was also robbed one time - but they only took the pizza and slammed the door in my face - no personal threat there. I was carrying at the time and just called the cops.

It comes down to being in condition yellow at all times - be aware of your surroundings. Most of the drivers out there just don't have this mentality.

Glock31 - make sure you have your CCW, so if/when you get into a situation, at least it was on you legally.
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Old December 21, 2005, 01:19 AM   #43
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Thanks ws6_keith,

I sent my application for my ccw of today. Hope it, and my hundred dollars, makes it through the red tape ok.
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