Cupronickel ammo

Roamin_Wade · November 27, 2018, 10:33 AM

What can anyone tell me about the ammunition made out of cuperonickle that isn't being made anymore? Is it good or was it no good? Thanks...

Art Eatman · November 27, 2018, 12:25 PM

Cupro, not cupero.

In my ignorance about the bullets, I'd guesstimate that they were intended for deep penetration rather than expansion, as in military bullets.

Dufus · November 27, 2018, 01:01 PM

Here is an article from Wikipedia that has a brief reference of cupronickle use in bullets. It states that the alloy was used around the turn of the century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel

T. O'Heir · November 27, 2018, 01:15 PM

It's not the ammunition or bullet. It's just the jacket.
Cupronickel is a copper/nickel alloy. It's primary function in military ammo was changing the colour of the jacket. It was known for causing excessive fouling.
Discussed at length here. https://forum.cartridgecollectors.or...ickel-use/8722

RC20 · November 28, 2018, 12:47 PM

Its primary function was to have a metal that did not peel off.

How well it did is a different story. Color had nothing to do with it.

**44 AMP** · November 28, 2018, 01:13 PM

Cupronickel jackets were an early attempt to improve bullets, jacketing the lead to be able to use the higher velocities the "new" smokeless powders produced. They work.

Gilding metal, the alloy we call "copper jackets" today, works better. And because of that, replaced cupro-nickel (generally) generations ago.

Jim Watson · November 28, 2018, 02:56 PM

Cupronickel was fine until the transition from .30-40 Krag to .30-03. The increase in velocity was enough to cause hard metal fouling. There were even cupronickel plated steel jackets.

I wrote an author to that effect and he replied that his firearms expert showed him current production cupronickel jacketed bullets. Well, yes, they were hunting bullets, a couple of rounds fired through a cold clean barrel at a game animal don't have the fouling potential of a military weapon.

Archie · December 2, 2018, 07:45 AM

The above information is pretty reliable. Cupronickel was the early jacketing material. It was a lot better than an unjacketed lead bullet. However it did cause some pretty nasty fouling in early rifles. The chemists came up with gilding material to use for jackets and it is much better. I should live so long as to see the next 'change'.

Like many things, even cupronickel won't be a serious problem if one cleans the barrel regularly.

Drm50 · December 2, 2018, 11:23 AM

Some time back I bought several thousand rounds of 30/40 Govt issue. It was
Frankfort Arsenal 1905 stamped on canvas bandoleers. Ammo was very clean
but was degraded from within the cartridge. Charge was like grease and brass
was corroded from inside. A lot of the case necks had cracks. With thumb pressure you could break bullet through case. I bought I cheap to salvage the
bullets. The exposed part of bullet looked like new but rear was covered with
soft corrosion. I put them in a bucket of the solution HVac guys use to clean coils
on AC units. Rinsed and dried. These bullets are cupronickel jackets and I save
them for plinking & target in 30/40s and my 1895 Win 30/06 loves them. I have
had no problem with fouling of riflings with them. But I'm not shooting them at
extreme velocities.

ThomasT · December 13, 2018, 02:13 PM

I have around 225 I salvaged from some 7mm Mauser rounds I bought. These are 175gr round nose bullets that I am guessing are the same as Bell used on most of his elephants.

The primers were bad and more like a fuse. So I pulled them all and saved the square flake powder and the bullets and tossed the brass. They were loaded with 38grs of this powder. They may have had slow ignition but everyone of them fired. And they were darn accurate too. And since they were not loaded to max pressures they were very pleasant to shoot.

I have 20 rounds loaded in some of my 7x57 cases just in case the elephants escape the zoo and I am called on to stop the charge.

**44 AMP** · December 13, 2018, 03:29 PM

If you are going to stop a charging elephant with a 7x57mm Mauser, and you aren't Karamojo Bell, I do hope you that you have the next of kin box on the form filled out.

might not be a bad idea to have your DNA on file, too. That way they can identify who the red paste was....

KROIL · December 13, 2018, 04:58 PM

At the range yesterday morning I launched 20 rounds of 1936 headstamp Turkish 8mm out of my Turk Mauser. Cupro Nickle jacketed. I have fired lots of it and have had no cleaning problems with it. 1936 Stamp is also pretty accurate stuff but boy is it HOT. 82 Year old ammo...must have been stored well.

Dufus · December 14, 2018, 12:46 PM

Norma offered nickle plated bullets for hand loading. I bought a bunch for 7.92. they were all 196 gr. Norma also offered a copper jacketed 165 gr BTSP for the 7.92 and I have those also.

ThomasT · December 14, 2018, 03:04 PM

Quote:

If you are going to stop a charging elephant with a 7x57mm Mauser, and you aren't Karamojo Bell, I do hope you that you have the next of kin box on the form filled out.

might not be a bad idea to have your DNA on file, too. That way they can identify who the red paste was....

HaHa thats funny. And as much blood work as I have had done somebody somewhere should have a sample of my DNA. My wife would make sure I was identified, she wants the insurance money.

F. Guffey · December 14, 2018, 04:52 PM

I called the bullets 'streakers' because?

The last article I read that was not written by Internet reloaders was written it 1954 or I should say published in 1954. The article had to do with cleaning the barrel because that stuff did not come out of the barrel by normal means.

And then there is that Tin Can thing and the old guys greasing their ammo and getting it all over everything. If you are interested in the article-go dig.

F. Guffey

lonniemike · December 14, 2018, 06:13 PM

Someone forgot to tell the Swiss cupro/ni was fubar. They were still making 7.5 mil ammo with it in the late 1990's. Cupro/Ni worked for about a hundred years for them. Best All

RC20 · December 17, 2018, 11:32 AM

That GP-11 bullet looks like Cupro.

F. Guffey · December 17, 2018, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Someone forgot to tell the Swiss cupro/ni was fubar. They were still making 7.5 mil ammo with it in the late 1990's.

I have purchases thousands of cupro/nickel rounds that were dated 1941 and back. Most of it was 8MM57 Mauser ammo. Most of it cost me $2.40 for 80 rounds. I had no interest in the case and or bullet, I pulled the bullets and saved the powder. The bullets were streakers and had a waist. At first I thought the waist on the bullet was caused by the crimp.

F. Guffey

**Mike Irwin** · December 19, 2018, 07:30 AM

"might not be a bad idea to have your DNA on file, too. That way they can identify who the red paste was...."

I THINK it was Peter Capstick who, in one of his articles for American Rifleman/American Hunter, described the elephant's preferred method of dealing with people trying to kill them as the "Stomp and Stir" method...

Stomp with massive feet, stir the remains with the tusks, and stomp again.

That's always made me chuckle.

November 27, 2018, 10:33 AM	#1
Roamin_Wade Junior member Join Date: July 11, 2018 Location: Baytown, TX Posts: 220	Cupronickel ammo What can anyone tell me about the ammunition made out of cuperonickle that isn't being made anymore? Is it good or was it no good? Thanks...

November 27, 2018, 01:15 PM	#4
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	It's not the ammunition or bullet. It's just the jacket. Cupronickel is a copper/nickel alloy. It's primary function in military ammo was changing the colour of the jacket. It was known for causing excessive fouling. Discussed at length here. https://forum.cartridgecollectors.or...ickel-use/8722 __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 28, 2018, 12:47 PM	#5
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Its primary function was to have a metal that did not peel off. How well it did is a different story. Color had nothing to do with it. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

November 28, 2018, 01:13 PM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	Cupronickel jackets were an early attempt to improve bullets, jacketing the lead to be able to use the higher velocities the "new" smokeless powders produced. They work. Gilding metal, the alloy we call "copper jackets" today, works better. And because of that, replaced cupro-nickel (generally) generations ago. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 2, 2018, 07:45 AM	#8
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	The above information is pretty reliable. Cupronickel was the early jacketing material. It was a lot better than an unjacketed lead bullet. However it did cause some pretty nasty fouling in early rifles. The chemists came up with gilding material to use for jackets and it is much better. I should live so long as to see the next 'change'. Like many things, even cupronickel won't be a serious problem if one cleans the barrel regularly. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

November 27, 2018, 12:25 PM	#2
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Cupro, not cupero. In my ignorance about the bullets, I'd guesstimate that they were intended for deep penetration rather than expansion, as in military bullets.

November 27, 2018, 01:01 PM	#3
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	Here is an article from Wikipedia that has a brief reference of cupronickle use in bullets. It states that the alloy was used around the turn of the century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel

November 28, 2018, 02:56 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Cupronickel was fine until the transition from .30-40 Krag to .30-03. The increase in velocity was enough to cause hard metal fouling. There were even cupronickel plated steel jackets. I wrote an author to that effect and he replied that his firearms expert showed him current production cupronickel jacketed bullets. Well, yes, they were hunting bullets, a couple of rounds fired through a cold clean barrel at a game animal don't have the fouling potential of a military weapon.

December 2, 2018, 11:23 AM	#9
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,380	Some time back I bought several thousand rounds of 30/40 Govt issue. It was Frankfort Arsenal 1905 stamped on canvas bandoleers. Ammo was very clean but was degraded from within the cartridge. Charge was like grease and brass was corroded from inside. A lot of the case necks had cracks. With thumb pressure you could break bullet through case. I bought I cheap to salvage the bullets. The exposed part of bullet looked like new but rear was covered with soft corrosion. I put them in a bucket of the solution HVac guys use to clean coils on AC units. Rinsed and dried. These bullets are cupronickel jackets and I save them for plinking & target in 30/40s and my 1895 Win 30/06 loves them. I have had no problem with fouling of riflings with them. But I'm not shooting them at extreme velocities.

December 13, 2018, 02:13 PM	#10
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	I have around 225 I salvaged from some 7mm Mauser rounds I bought. These are 175gr round nose bullets that I am guessing are the same as Bell used on most of his elephants. The primers were bad and more like a fuse. So I pulled them all and saved the square flake powder and the bullets and tossed the brass. They were loaded with 38grs of this powder. They may have had slow ignition but everyone of them fired. And they were darn accurate too. And since they were not loaded to max pressures they were very pleasant to shoot. I have 20 rounds loaded in some of my 7x57 cases just in case the elephants escape the zoo and I am called on to stop the charge.

December 13, 2018, 03:29 PM	#11
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	If you are going to stop a charging elephant with a 7x57mm Mauser, and you aren't Karamojo Bell, I do hope you that you have the next of kin box on the form filled out. might not be a bad idea to have your DNA on file, too. That way they can identify who the red paste was.... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 13, 2018, 04:58 PM	#12
KROIL Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 306	At the range yesterday morning I launched 20 rounds of 1936 headstamp Turkish 8mm out of my Turk Mauser. Cupro Nickle jacketed. I have fired lots of it and have had no cleaning problems with it. 1936 Stamp is also pretty accurate stuff but boy is it HOT. 82 Year old ammo...must have been stored well.

December 14, 2018, 12:46 PM	#13
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	Norma offered nickle plated bullets for hand loading. I bought a bunch for 7.92. they were all 196 gr. Norma also offered a copper jacketed 165 gr BTSP for the 7.92 and I have those also.

December 14, 2018, 04:52 PM	#15
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I called the bullets 'streakers' because? The last article I read that was not written by Internet reloaders was written it 1954 or I should say published in 1954. The article had to do with cleaning the barrel because that stuff did not come out of the barrel by normal means. And then there is that Tin Can thing and the old guys greasing their ammo and getting it all over everything. If you are interested in the article-go dig. F. Guffey Last edited by F. Guffey; December 17, 2018 at 01:50 PM. Reason: change to to go

December 14, 2018, 06:13 PM	#16
lonniemike Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2005 Posts: 138	Someone forgot to tell the Swiss cupro/ni was fubar. They were still making 7.5 mil ammo with it in the late 1990's. Cupro/Ni worked for about a hundred years for them. Best All

December 17, 2018, 11:32 AM	#17
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	That GP-11 bullet looks like Cupro. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

December 19, 2018, 07:30 AM	#19
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	"might not be a bad idea to have your DNA on file, too. That way they can identify who the red paste was...." I THINK it was Peter Capstick who, in one of his articles for American Rifleman/American Hunter, described the elephant's preferred method of dealing with people trying to kill them as the "Stomp and Stir" method... Stomp with massive feet, stir the remains with the tusks, and stomp again. That's always made me chuckle. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.