What kind of handgun did the gunman used to kill the United Healthcare CEO?

[Tool]

It malfunctioned 3 times? Was that due to the poor quality of the gun, or due to the fact that he was using a silencer?

[micromontenegro]

I don't think it really malfunctioned. I think he was using some special ammo that does not cycle the action. Subsonics, maybe?

[Jim Watson]

The Internet Wisdom is that he was using a silencer on a gun not sprung for it.

[gwpercle]

We will only know for sure when the gun is recovered ...
They did recover shell cases ... with writing on them ... but I haven't heard any credible reports as to the caliber ...
Someone had a Theory that the gun was a WWII "Welrod" never heard of this ...
supposedly silinced and bolt action or manualy operated ... But who knows ...
Getting a lot of press time ... for sure !
Gary

[Mal H]

Originally Posted by gwpercle

but I haven't heard any credible reports as to the caliber ...

In a press release, the police chief said they were 9mm.

[mehavey]

https://www.capitolarmory.com/bt-sta...-bt410111.html

When you look at this video, you'll see re-loading actions (not malfunctions) consistent with the gunman in the extended/full videos of the actual shooting.

[tlm225]

With the information on the model of the gun they should be able to identify the shooter in short order.

[Shadow9mm]

According to this article https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...k-killing.html it may have been a b&t vp9, a remake of the welrod

[FrankenMauser]

He's not operating a bolt, he's just cycling a slide.

[44 AMP]

With the information on the model of the gun they should be able to identify the shooter in short order.

Just how do you figure that??

Seriously, how would knowing the model of the gun be of ANY use in identifying the shooter in short order??

Let's assume the gun is something unique looking, so a positive ID can be made from the surveillance video. giving the maker and the model of the gun.
What can the authorities do with that?
This is needle in a haystack stuff and the cops don't have a magnet....

They don't have the gun.

OK, so say they decide what the gun is and who made it. We know the caliber from the empties on the scene, 9mm. What can they do with that? Ask the maker how many "model X" guns in 9mm that they have made (ever) and where they went (who sold them). That's all the maker can tell them, and that does nothing to identify the shooter.

Say the maker has only made 10,000 of that model and they've been sold to jobbers and dealers all over the country (or possibly all over the world), over the years that model has been in production.
Thats a big haystack at this point, and right now it has to be examined straw by straw and also there's no proof at this point the needle they're looking for (the gun) is even IN the haystack at all.

Now, it is a possibility that there is a paper trail (in the haystack) that might lead to the shooter, but only if the shooter was an original purchaser. If they weren't then the paper trail ends quite quickly.

The shooting happened in NYC. Anyone want to take bets on the pistol being legally owned and possessed in NYC? or NY state??

being able to ID the make and model of the gun from the video isn't going to do anything "in short order", they need the gun (and ser#) to get even close in short order. And that's just to get to the last legal owner with a paper trail. The gun may have passed through many hands after that, before winding up in the hands of the shooter. It could even have been stolen!

[micromontenegro]

It's not a Wellrod or clone. You can clearly see that the slide or bolt is spring loaded as it returns to battery

[dogtown tom]

44 AMP

Just how do you figure that??

Seriously, how would knowing the model of the gun be of ANY use in identifying the shooter in short order??

I dont think it is a Station 6 because that pistol requires an awkward twist and pull to manipulate the bolt.

If it WAS a Station 6, they sold numbers in the hundreds, not tens of thousands.
-It's a $2000 pistol w/integral silencer. Not many sold because of the somewhat limited usefulness of the design and the price.
-its NFA, meaning the buyers photo and fingerprints were submitted on his Form 4.

[mehavey]

B&T Station Six-9 Suppressed Pistol bolt operates (near) the same as a Ruger Mk I-IV: (Twist cap)/then pull cap straight back w/ thumb & forefinger.
The awkwardness come in dumping the casing out to the right.

Just like shown in the surveillance videos.

[TunnelRat]

Ian at ForgottenWeapons has stated it is not a Welrod or B&T. Given he has hands on experience with those weapons, I’m inclined to believe him.

http://youtube.com/post/UgkxOryFKO5F...ORVBXEDINH2ptC

[eastbank]

i wonder if the shooter had a gruge against the medical copany due to some related person to the shooter that may have died. i also think the pistol was under gased or under sprung.

[Sharkbite]

My money is on a Glock (or other tilt barrel design) using a direct thread homemade suppressor, maybe a modified fuel filter of the type sold on the internet in the recent past.

Those had 1/2x28 threads but no option for a booster

[reddog81]

I heard they found three live rounds and three cases. That would seem to indicate a malfunctioning gun versus some very rare bolt action.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by reddog81

I heard they found three live rounds and three cases. That would seem to indicate a malfunctioning gun versus some very rare bolt action.

Given that this was a suppressed weapon, it may well have been a pistol that was in need of a Nielsen device and didn’t have one.

I get that this was a relatively competent murder in a world of seemingly incompetent attempts, but some people online seem to be turning this suspect into a sort of trained assassin. I would be pretty surprised if that was the reality.

[FITASC]

Last article I saw said he had to cycle the slide 4-5 times - and if the CEO had had his own gun (or his bodyguards) he would still be alive

[Hellcat1]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

Given that this was a suppressed weapon, it may well have been a pistol that was in need of a Nielsen device and didn’t have one.

Colion Noir would agree with you, based on what he had to say in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bC7XZGoJP8


Frank

[JohnKSa]

Given that this was a suppressed weapon, it may well have been a pistol that was in need of a Nielsen device and didn’t have one.

I agree. I found a full video of the incident and based on how rapidly he hand-cycled the mechanism after the first shot, I would say he was expecting that behavior. He didn't appear to diagnose the malfunction, he immediately racked the slide after shooting.

I don't see any twisting motion during these cycling movements, and the profile of the pistol upper appears to be rectangular, not cylindrical, like the Station 6. Also the characteristic cutout at the top of the Station 6 does not appear in the video. Add to that, you've got a person who has experience shooting that type of pistol stating categorically that's not what is in the video.

My guess is that he bought a threaded barrel for some semi-auto pistol he already owned and built himself a silencer but didn't know how to build a Nielsen device and didn't want to go on record as owning one.

Last article I saw said he had to cycle the slide 4-5 times - and if the CEO had had his own gun (or his bodyguards) he would still be alive

I don't know about that. He did have to cycle the action for each shot, but the first shot looked like a center of mass chest shot from the back. I don't know that the victim would have survived that although it didn't drop him in his tracks. Based on the information about the shooter putting words on the empty cartridge cases, it appears that the shooter intended to fire at least 3 shots, so I suspect that how many times the victim was shot had a lot to do with prior planning and maybe not so much to do with the incompetence of the shooter.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

I agree. I found a full video of the incident and based on how rapidly he hand-cycled the mechanism after the first shot, I would say he was expecting that behavior. He didn't appear to diagnose the malfunction, he immediately racked the slide after shooting.

Thanks for that information. I have not seen the full video yet, but I was curious if the shooter was caught unaware by the malfunctions. From what you’re describing it sounds like he not only knew he would have malfunctions, but had perhaps worked through them before. To me that suggests an additional level of initial planning.

[JohnKSa]

The video link I had is already non-functional. You can probably find another source if you spend some time searching.

[44 AMP]

Whether he illegally built or illegally bought his silencer, it seems to me that someone who could do that would TEST the gun with the silencer on it, with the ammo he was going to use, and if so, then he would know what the combination would do, and allow for that in his plans.

[Tom Servo]

From what you’re describing it sounds like he not only knew he would have malfunctions, but had perhaps worked through them before.

The video has been blurred, but you can see the shooter cycling the slide after each shot, and he does appear to clear a malfunction at one point.

The shooter's demeanor seems fairly casual. From what's been reported about his movements, this whole thing does seem to be planned quite a bit.

(What worries me is that people are coming out of the woodwork to imply this sort of thing is justified if the victim is an "evil CEO." Given events over the last couple of years, I'm concerned we're entering another era of 1970s-style political violence.)