One bad cylinder?

NWPilgrim · March 10, 2013, 10:50 PM

I just shot a bunch of test loads in my new M29-8 mountain gun. I tested several handloads and some factory ammo. I got a few good 4-shot groups around 1.5" at 25 yds from a rest. But many seemed to have 3 holes tightly grouped and one flyer. I was shooting them all single action.

After a while it just seemed odd to keep getting one outlier in most groups. But not all groups, maybe 2/3 of them had this problem. Later I began to wonder if there could be one cylinder out of spec that would do this. Is that sort of problem unusual or not so unusual? What can be done if it is one bad cylinder?

I plan to run some more tests to compare groups of the same ammo but keeping track of the cylinders for each shot. I can't do that for another 2-3 weeks and thought I would ask for a sanity check from you guys before I devote a range session to this.

I love the gun but expected better results as the 4" Redhawk I had years ago shot my best handloads tighter than this. If I throw out the too-frequent flyer then the groups would be great over all.

SIGSHR · March 10, 2013, 11:10 PM

Number each chamber, then fire test groups from each one. If you discover a bad chamber I'm S&W can correct the problem.

RJay · March 10, 2013, 11:27 PM

Been there, done that, Here's what to do. Take a large target, big enough to place 6 red dots, separate from each other. Take your revolver, mark each cylinder with a silver marking pen ( or similar ). 1-2-3- and so forth. From a sand bag rest, fire 5 rounds ( or whatever floats your boat

) from cylinder number one, then do the same with cylinder number 2 and continue until you have fired a complete cycle. You will then know where each cylinder is shooting. I'm betting that you will have one group about 3 inchs from center. Not really unusual, but not as common today as in the yesteryear's., An old handgun hunter will have each cylinder marked. It is not uncommon to have all 6 groups grouped at different points.

Bill DeShivs · March 11, 2013, 01:06 AM

C'mon guys- CHAMBERS, not cylinders.

NWPilgrim · March 11, 2013, 02:11 AM

I changed the cylinders out for chambers and it seems that one is still shooting off from the others. Thanks for the suggestion, anyway.

Thanks rjay with the target idea.

mete · March 11, 2013, 04:17 AM

So you want to test the chambers and just use the best one for that metallic silhouette match ? Don't do it . You'll damage the revolver in time !! In the early days of metallic silhouette there were some of us who did many different experiments , everything we could think of. The 'one chamber only' was one that failed !!

dahermit · March 11, 2013, 09:04 AM

What is with the "4-shot groups"? Doesn't the gun have six chambers?

Poindexter · March 11, 2013, 04:18 PM

Another option is to just label one cylinder and set up six targets. Target #1 on the far left, then next two it target two for chamber two...

On one particular gun I still own I figured out I was flinching on (or about) the fourth shot and then slowing down and taking 5 and 6 when I was fresher/ better rested.

On that one it wasn't the cylinder at all, it was me.

NWPilgrim · March 12, 2013, 01:50 PM

Quote:

What is with the "4-shot groups"? Doesn't the gun have six chambers?

Because that is what I feel is necessary to get an idea of relative accuracy. My AR15 has a 30-rd magazine and I do not test handloads with 30-shot groups with it either. Even with 4-shot groups my right elbow was beat to snot from the recoil of shooting over 120 rds of .44mag from the bench on a rest (six batches/ladders of different bullet/powder combos with 5-6 steps of 4 rds each per test ladder). A higher rest would have been easier on me but I shot with what was at hand.

NWPilgrim · March 12, 2013, 02:02 PM

Thanks for the ideas guys. And the warning of just using the most accurate chamber all the time. I just wanted to see if this is a relatively common problem and worth further testing. It could well be just me. I have obviously been away from revolvers for quite some time (chambers vs cylinders!) and was not aware whether new revolvers are drilled in a way to eliminate this type of variance or if it still is a possible problem.

I will mark each chamber and test using six bullseyes, one for each chamber and repeat it several times to see how each chamber groups. And to eliminate any pattern of my hold/flinch/eye alignment I will shoot them all the same: six shots from #1 chamber at target #1, six shots from chamber #2 at target #2, and so on. That should give a short break between each shot to settle back down to a good rest.

I hope it is just me or the ammo, I don't want to have to go through sending it back for repair and the delay involved. But I also do not want to have a revolver that shoots inconsistently.

SIGSHR · March 12, 2013, 06:16 PM

That's very interesting about the metallic silhouette shooters finding out that having a designated chamber was a Great Idea That Didn't Work.

March 10, 2013, 11:27 PM	#3
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Been there, done that, Here's what to do. Take a large target, big enough to place 6 red dots, separate from each other. Take your revolver, mark each cylinder with a silver marking pen ( or similar ). 1-2-3- and so forth. From a sand bag rest, fire 5 rounds ( or whatever floats your boat ) from cylinder number one, then do the same with cylinder number 2 and continue until you have fired a complete cycle. You will then know where each cylinder is shooting. I'm betting that you will have one group about 3 inchs from center. Not really unusual, but not as common today as in the yesteryear's., An old handgun hunter will have each cylinder marked. It is not uncommon to have all 6 groups grouped at different points. __________________ Ron James

March 11, 2013, 01:06 AM	#4
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,984	C'mon guys- CHAMBERS, not cylinders. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

March 11, 2013, 02:11 AM	#5
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	One bad cylinder? I changed the cylinders out for chambers and it seems that one is still shooting off from the others. Thanks for the suggestion, anyway. Thanks rjay with the target idea.

March 11, 2013, 04:17 AM	#6
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	So you want to test the chambers and just use the best one for that metallic silhouette match ? Don't do it . You'll damage the revolver in time !! In the early days of metallic silhouette there were some of us who did many different experiments , everything we could think of. The 'one chamber only' was one that failed !! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

March 12, 2013, 02:02 PM	#10
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Thanks for the ideas guys. And the warning of just using the most accurate chamber all the time. I just wanted to see if this is a relatively common problem and worth further testing. It could well be just me. I have obviously been away from revolvers for quite some time (chambers vs cylinders!) and was not aware whether new revolvers are drilled in a way to eliminate this type of variance or if it still is a possible problem. I will mark each chamber and test using six bullseyes, one for each chamber and repeat it several times to see how each chamber groups. And to eliminate any pattern of my hold/flinch/eye alignment I will shoot them all the same: six shots from #1 chamber at target #1, six shots from chamber #2 at target #2, and so on. That should give a short break between each shot to settle back down to a good rest. I hope it is just me or the ammo, I don't want to have to go through sending it back for repair and the delay involved. But I also do not want to have a revolver that shoots inconsistently. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

March 10, 2013, 10:50 PM	#1
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	One bad cylinder? I just shot a bunch of test loads in my new M29-8 mountain gun. I tested several handloads and some factory ammo. I got a few good 4-shot groups around 1.5" at 25 yds from a rest. But many seemed to have 3 holes tightly grouped and one flyer. I was shooting them all single action. After a while it just seemed odd to keep getting one outlier in most groups. But not all groups, maybe 2/3 of them had this problem. Later I began to wonder if there could be one cylinder out of spec that would do this. Is that sort of problem unusual or not so unusual? What can be done if it is one bad cylinder? I plan to run some more tests to compare groups of the same ammo but keeping track of the cylinders for each shot. I can't do that for another 2-3 weeks and thought I would ask for a sanity check from you guys before I devote a range session to this. I love the gun but expected better results as the 4" Redhawk I had years ago shot my best handloads tighter than this. If I throw out the too-frequent flyer then the groups would be great over all.

March 10, 2013, 11:10 PM	#2
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Number each chamber, then fire test groups from each one. If you discover a bad chamber I'm S&W can correct the problem.

March 11, 2013, 09:04 AM	#7
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	What is with the "4-shot groups"? Doesn't the gun have six chambers?

March 11, 2013, 04:18 PM	#8
Poindexter Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2009 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 154	Another option is to just label one cylinder and set up six targets. Target #1 on the far left, then next two it target two for chamber two... On one particular gun I still own I figured out I was flinching on (or about) the fourth shot and then slowing down and taking 5 and 6 when I was fresher/ better rested. On that one it wasn't the cylinder at all, it was me.

March 12, 2013, 06:16 PM	#11
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	That's very interesting about the metallic silhouette shooters finding out that having a designated chamber was a Great Idea That Didn't Work.