December 29, 2010, 07:51 AM | #1 |
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327 Federal Magnum Fans
After wanting a full size .32 magnum revolver, I couldn't wait to get my GP100 in 327. However I have yet to run any factory ammo through my gun. I've simply used my 32 H&R handloads. Seems like ammo availability and price is keeping a good caliber from being more widely accepted by the mass public. I just wish Ruger would offer the GP100 with a 6 inch barrel in .327 mag. Accuracy with 32 H&R is very good and it's my favorite trail gun
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December 29, 2010, 08:22 AM | #2 |
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It's the chicken egg thing
There isn't a lot of ammo for the gun so people don't buy it. There aren't a lot of guns so ammo manufacturers don't make a lot. This caliber may not be around long. Seems handloading may be the only solution and a lot of casual users won't do that, so they won't buy one. It's a shame. It should be widely popular for the CCW crowd. AFS |
December 29, 2010, 09:06 AM | #3 |
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Last time I was at Cabalas they had a lot of .327, I was surprised.
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December 29, 2010, 09:51 AM | #4 |
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Actually, concerning handloading, Federal seems to be on a mission to prevent handloaders from using the cartridge.
According to what I've read, they have only released a very small amount of unloaded brass for public sale, the brass they're using in their loaded ammunition is thin and does not withstand repeated reuse very well, and they're apparently refusing to license the case design to other companies that typically make thicker, stronger cases (e.g. Starline and Olin/Winchester).
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December 29, 2010, 10:47 AM | #5 |
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Just a couple issues with that...
As far as I know, Federal/ATK hasn't released any brass for public purchase. They set Freedom Arms up with a lot of it (the lot size of which I have no idea) and us end-users were able to get some component primed non-nickel Federal head stamped brass from Freedom Arms. Then sales of that brass was suspended by Freedom, telling us that it's reserved for customers who have purchased the Freedom Arms .327 Mag revolver. (very nice, very large, very expensive) Whether or not they will sell bags of brass right now seems to depend on who picks up the phone when you call them up. Federal had a couple press releases that they would make available for sale component .327 Federal Mag brass in bags of 100, available in early August 2010. Some outlets made clickable links for this product... but as we approached the street date, these links were pulled. No idea why, Federal must have told them that it wasn't going to happen. I've not heard a when or why or, well, anything. As for the thickness/durability of the brass, that seems to be a matter of opinion. While I have about 500 pieces in my stock and I'm only on the 3rd or 4th load of them and I haven't seen any issues whatsoever. No neck splits, no case splits, no problems that I have seen. Some other folks have different opinions -- user Hammer It specifically has had better luck with the Speer branded nickel cases that you can only get with Gold Dot ammunition. (I have a few pieces of that and it's not given me any problem, either) As for Starline -- I can't give a firm answer on the comparative durability of any brass they might make and also if there exist and such "rights" on reproducing the case. In fact, I contacted Starline (via e-mail) and the guy on the other end wasn't very talkative on the subject and wouldn't answer directly as to whether or not they'd be prohibited from building brass for it with regards to any licensing or exclusivity rights. He was very adamant about the fact that they are way, way backlogged and that it wouldn't be a priority even if ATK showed up with plans and dimensions and a smile and pat on the back. It's likely time to try and contact Starline again to see if they have a better (or at least different) answer than, "we are so backlogged that it's not even on the horizon." If I can inject one pure opinion on the matter right now, simply to counter what you said about brass durability, I will say that Starline is over rated in this industry. I am not saying that it's not great brass -- it is and I like it as much as the next guy. But it seems to me that folks believe that it's superior to all other handgun brass out there and that has not been my experience. It's great brass, like many other brands out there. But it's not super brass and until I see otherwise, I wouldn't expect Starline's version of .327 Federal Mag (if they EVER make it) to be any better, in any way, to non-nickel Federal brass. Winchester is great also. If you want an example of a big-name brass that is not as good as it's name might lead you to believe, that would be Remington handgun brass. Remington is without a doubt thinner in the case mouth than most any brass that I use, and I use most everyone's brass. Certainly, there is worse brass than Remington, and Winchester/Federal/Starline are better than Remington. But the bottom line for me is that Starline seems to have this reputation as being BETTER than everything else and that it occupies some kind of "super brass" place and in my experience, this is simply not true and could lead some ham-fisted handloader down a dangerous path. One interesting bit of note is that I visited the Buffalo Bore website some weeks back and they show .327 Federal Mag as a new caliber offering some time planned for 2011. And that would mean that they somehow need to get a hold of brass, so someone would have to make it and provide it for them. I don't know who makes Buffalo Bore's brass, but I would imagine that it's not Buffalo Bore. But other than THAT, I agree with everything you said!
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Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
December 29, 2010, 03:50 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
Jim |
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December 29, 2010, 04:01 PM | #7 |
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I do not currently have anything in .327 magnum, but really like what I've read and think it really should find a niche with the CC guys. It's ballistics are about right and the cartridge size allows for 6 rounds in a 5 round .38/,357 sized package.
I'm going to watch how this round survives, and hope that it does.
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December 29, 2010, 06:10 PM | #8 |
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I'm kind of interested in the cartridge but I don't like it in any of the guns it's currently chambered in. I have an sp101 and gp100 but in .357 and I have a blackhawk but in .45lc. if they made a single six in .327 I'd be all over it or if they made a scaled down snubby that only held 5 shots I'd be interested.
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December 29, 2010, 07:00 PM | #9 |
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I'm another GP100 owner who has yet to run any 327 Federal thru it. I've been using 32 H&R Mag handloads in mine since I haven't been able to get any brass or factory ammo for mine. But the 32 H&R is a favorite of mine, so it's no biggie to me.
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December 29, 2010, 10:05 PM | #10 |
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I'm sure you know this, but I'll mention it just in case you aren't aware... The .327 Federal Magnum runs at a pressure that is going to be horribly unfamiliar to anyone that is used to the .32 H&R Mag. The large leap in pressure between these two is larger than the jump from .38 Special to .357 Magnum.
The .327 Fed Mag runs at like 45,000 PSI and the .32 H&R, for all intents and purposes, should never have been named "magnum". It's a cork pop-gun compared to the .327. The difference is like day & nuclear holocaust. Of course, if all of your .32 H&R is handloads, than you've likely been hotrodding them already, so you'll be in the neighborhood.
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Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
December 29, 2010, 11:28 PM | #11 | |
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December 30, 2010, 08:35 AM | #12 |
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Slight Hi-Jack
I can't wait for a rifle, preferably a lever action, for this round to be made. Talk about a great coyote set up!
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December 30, 2010, 09:48 AM | #13 |
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Sevens,
Thanks for the more thorough explanation of the .327FedMag brass availability issue; I was trying to give the Cliff's Notes version. To summarize this and numerous other threads about this topic, there's pretty much uniform agreement that in order for this cartridge to take off, we need:
Yes, unfortunately, this is one of those Chicken vs. Egg issues.
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December 30, 2010, 09:53 AM | #14 |
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carguychris, I think you about nailed it! I agree.
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December 30, 2010, 10:59 AM | #15 | |
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Crosshair -- I tried to address that in my post here:
Quote:
I agree with the chicken/egg thing. Without one, it's tough to move to the other. But on that subject, I would think that part of what's keeping a true snubbie out of the picture is what a very short barrel length is going to do to the "nuts" of the high pressure round. With each sliver of barrel you slice off, you neuter the round a bit. We might find in a 2-inch barrel that we just don't have what we want out of the round anymore... making the whole point moot. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/327mag.html Also on the subject... CDNN in one of their recent e-mail offers is showing VERY low prices on the Taurus .327 Mag snubs: 2" Tu-Tone DA/SA #TAU2327021DT - $279.99 2" Stainless DA/SA #TAU2327029 - $279.99 2" Stainless DAO #TAU2327129 - $249.99
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Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
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December 30, 2010, 02:01 PM | #16 |
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I want, and will get one. 4" GP100 is sweet. Be good for an "out of hunting season" trail gun for varmints and a helluva lot of fun at the range with light wadcutters. I waited for years for a resurgence of the .32mag. and this is even better. Should be real cheap to reload for once the brass situation is worked out. Pretty low powder consumption and imagine how many bullets you can cast out of a pound of lead.
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December 30, 2010, 07:42 PM | #17 |
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Sevens
This is why I should not post when tired, I miss important details.
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December 31, 2010, 12:05 AM | #18 |
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Preferred ammo
Publius,
I want to encourage you to buy the GP100. They are great guns and reasonably priced. Real world cost is about $520+/-.... I love my 686 that cost me under $400 brand new in the 90s, but I've come to have a healthy respect for ruger double action revolvers starting with my SP101 and Redhawk. I think S&W's current prices are highly over rated and standard interlock feature is an abomination and a reliability liability. I too would have loved a true K frame S&W but Ruger is the one who has delivered the gun I've been wanting at what I consider a "reasonable" price without having to jump through hoops to convert a model 66. I've done a fair bit of shooting with my GP100 and can tell you that 327 chamber dimensions will make use of wadcutters in 32 long cases questionable. I've found that 32 H&R loads work well in the 327 chamber, but 32 ACP and 32 S&W loads shoot large patterns. 32 long full wadcutter loads are only so so in terms of accuracy and inferior to the round nose factory loads in my 327. I think this is due to the long jump compared with the round nose ammo... Semi wadcutters and jacketed bullets in .32 H&R brass work pretty well. I've come to like the lyman 115 grain bullets in 32 H&R brass for this gun. I have shot some of my handloads side by side in my colt police positive in 32 New police, SP101 in 32 mag and the GP 100 in .327... Yes these 32's are addictive to those of us who reload and can enjoy shooting them ...... cheaply.... What I have learned, is that as bullets jump farther and farther through oversized chamber regions accuracy goes to pot. 32 long factory round nose work ok in my GP100 but 32 H&R and 327 loads will shoot much better. 32 Long wadcutter loads that shoot fine in the Colt New Police shoot like crap in the GP100. Of my three 32 revolvers, the GP100 is the best field gun of all. The colt is light and of limited power, the SP101 is great in size but lacks good sights and full size grips. The GP100 is a wonderful shooter.... but it also cost me the most....rc |
December 31, 2010, 02:27 AM | #19 |
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Sevens, I understand what you are saying, but you can't shoot what you can't get. I shoot the 32 H&R because it's what I have brass and bullets for. But what I have seen of the published 327 ballistics, my hot rodded 32 H&R still falls short. I don't think I could safely stuff enough H-110 in a 32 H&R case to get there with a 90gr Sierra bullet. So I would like to see the 327 brass/loaded ammo situation improve.
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December 31, 2010, 09:24 AM | #20 |
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+1 to most comments and carguychris' nice summary. Regarding the latter, he said
1. A compact, lightweight revolver that's smaller than a Ruger SP101 and less expensive and gimmicky than the S&W 632 PowerPort Pro. The lack of a Ruger LCR and/or no-frills S&W M432 chambered for this cartridge is frustrating. ---- At least Smith has a non-ported version now (has been out for 12-18 mos or so?) with the J-frame 632--the porting part of the previous is what I asssume you were mostly referring to with "gimmicky" and "frills"? It is still part of the Perf Ctr series I believe and too pricey--certainly way-far off Taurus'!--but has most of the features mentioned. I couldn't get the link to stick, and it's hard to find on S&W's site, but it is DA0 (what I'd probably get for my next J shorty anyway), 2.125" bbl, matt stainless. Other than the price, looks like just the ticket. I'd like to see it in a "dark" version as well. Unless Ruger beats me to it (?) my Single Six .32 H&Rs (Vaqueritos) are destined to .327 Conversion with the likes of Bowen, Clements, Harton, Reeder, Gallagher, et al. A Fed Mag SS is a no-brainer if there ever was one for Ruger. I love my Airweight .32 H&R. Alas, it cannot be rechambered (cylinder too short). OTOH, not sure I need my .327 in *that* lightweight a package and would prefer the heft of the above 632 steel anyway in the FM. The Airweight .32 will continue to do yeoman's BUG and CCW/travel duty--goes everywhere I do. With nice warm Georgia Arms 100 gr jhps, it's still decently potent. |
December 31, 2010, 11:28 AM | #21 |
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Kinda Sad when Charter is the one who comes out first with what people are looking for.
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December 31, 2010, 11:55 AM | #22 |
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What... you don't like the Taurus offerings?
Did you look at the reduced FPS with the short barrels? For all that the .327 Federal Mag promises to deliver, it gets castrated quickly as the barrel gets lopped off.
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Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
December 31, 2010, 03:52 PM | #23 | |
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December 31, 2010, 04:35 PM | #24 |
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I've just never seemed to find the niche that the 327 is supposed to fill.
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December 31, 2010, 05:24 PM | #25 |
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I see that Smith and Wesson finally released the gun I've been waiting for, a stainless version of the 632 with a three inch barrel. I didn't want the Carry Comp Pro with the black finish, and I didn't want the castrated 2" snubby they released... but a stainless 3" version is just what I've been looking for as a counterpart to Ruger's 3" SP101.
I can find the new stainless Smith for sale online, but for some strange reason I don't yet see it on Smith and Wesson's site.
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