A pistol round that will make many people happy. - Page 2

ballardw · August 3, 2014, 03:36 PM

Look at the bullets suitable for 7.62x25 instead of those "heavy" 30 carbine. Also look at sizing the 65gr gold dots for 32. Should get "explosive" expansion at the likely velocities.

tipoc · August 3, 2014, 06:12 PM

300 Blackout/300 Fireball/300 Whisper?

tipoc

Super Sneaky Steve · August 3, 2014, 06:20 PM

.327 Federal was a great idea, but no one bought it.

I don't think there's enough demand for something like this.

WESHOOT2 · August 4, 2014, 02:30 PM

Rob Leatham said the 9x25 had too much recoil for him; all straight back (and really hard) in compensated guns.

cougar gt-e · August 7, 2014, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Rob Leatham said the 9x25 had too much recoil for him; all straight back (and really hard) in compensated guns.
__________________

Maybe in regards to being able to put 5 hits on target in under 2 seconds in a timed competition?
I doubt he can't handle it plinking at the range. Just my assumptions, as I don't know the gent personally.

JD0x0 · August 7, 2014, 07:32 PM

The recoil on 9x25 looks fairly tame, out of a compensated glock20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwZ1OpLscjQ

WESHOOT2 · August 8, 2014, 04:38 PM

With a proper compensator it directed SO MUCH GAS its recoil came straight back.

Pond, James Pond · August 9, 2014, 02:36 AM

Quote:

The recoil on 9x25 looks fairly tame, out of a compensated glock20.

Emphasis added!

What we see in his body language: "la-dee-da-dee-dee. I'm just poppping off some ikle buwets"

What is probably being said through clenched teeth: "Yeowww! Sonofa-kicking-rabid mule of a gun! Shoot faster! Must end the pain!"

silvermane_1 · August 9, 2014, 06:36 AM

well if you want to make a new bottleneck pistol cal, go the route that the 22 TCM did which is a shortened 223/5.56, if you want a 308 cal, just make a shortened 308/7.62.

Quincunx · August 9, 2014, 09:01 AM

Does that mean there is no interest in my newly developed blowback vest pocket pistol in .50 BMG with a 2" barrel and a 50 round magazine?

I'll swap you my custom COP Derringer in .600 Nitro Express for it. And throw in a Thunderwear holster to boot.

WESHOOT2 · August 9, 2014, 02:27 PM

Quote:

22 TCM

Personally, I suggest THIS cartridge may eventually offer viable people-shooting alternatives.

Skans · August 11, 2014, 07:05 AM

A necked-down 10mm sounds like a "wimpy" version of the .440 CorBon developed for the Desert Eagle. Good luck trying to find the DE .440 barrel - I've been looking for over a decade and have had no luck.

coldbeer · August 11, 2014, 10:48 AM

What advantage would a 10mm necked down to .308 have over the 30 carbine? I'd want a larger caliber for a handgun and the 30 carbine can do anything a necked down 10mm can do better anyway.

JD0x0 · August 11, 2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

What advantage would a 10mm necked down to .308 have over the 30 carbine?

.308-10mm auto would be more efficient in a shorter barrel. I seriously doubt that you'd be able to get 1800FPS from .30 carbine in a 6'' barrel, when the standard load is 1990FPS in an 18.5'' barrel. 9x25 Dillon, reaches 1800FPS with a 115 grain load in a 6'' bbl.

I just watched 4 videos of someone shooting .30 carbine from an automag with a 6'' bbl, and only one shot broke 1650FPS.

Also I don't see many auto pistols in .30 carbine. Seems easier to get a 10mm platform to convert to .308-10mm than finding a .30 carbine auto pistol.

Quote:

22 TCM

Why? It's basically the twin of 5.7x28, which doesn't really impress me.
Bullets less than half the weight at the same velocity. Lighter for caliber, bullets of a smaller caliber. What's gained other than reduced recoil and possible magazine capacity increase, over the .308-10mm?

RX-79G · August 11, 2014, 01:08 PM

Pistol bullets seem to be lethal because, despite being slow and low energy, they make up for it by being wide and heavy. So they make largish holes.

Rifle bullets seam to be lethal because they are very fast, and actually produce the temporary wound cavity damage that handgun bullets don't have the energy to produce.

This round lives in limbo between them and would do neither. It doesn't have the velocity to do the damage of a rifle bullet or the size to cut large enough holes.

And it is also not small and light enough to do some of the odd things in flesh that round like .223 and 5.7 may do in terms of tumbling.

It just appears to be a too-small pistol bullet or a too-slow rifle bullet. Just the thing to poke clean, tiny holes that do minimal damage for the amount of energy they carry. A poor bargain, I think.

JD0x0 · August 11, 2014, 02:05 PM

I disagree. Starting diameter is only slightly smaller than 9mm and it's possible to get .50 cal expansion or larger. What you say would be true if you're limited to FMJ ammo, in which case, it'd be inefficient as a man stopper. (probably comparable 7.92x33Kurtz, 7.62x25 tokarev and .30 carbine with ball ammo) But in a case where you'd need penetration, it'd have plenty of it.
With expanding ammo, wounding should be significant. If you don't think a .308 cal bullet at ~1800FPS can't do significant damage, talk to the hunters using .30-30 at 100-200 yards. While .30-30 bullets do tend to be heavier, impact velocities at common hunting ranges will be comparable to impact velocities and energy levels at SD distances with the .308-10mm

With lighter bullets intended for 7.62x25 tokarev, as Ballardw suggested before, rifle like velocities could be attained, likely at the cost of soft tissue penetration, with an expanding bullet. Which could be desirable, if you're intending to create maximize temporary cavity size.

RX-79G · August 11, 2014, 04:18 PM

If it expands up to .50, you're saying that it is the lethal equivalent of an unexpanded .45 ACP. Except that it creates a smaller entry wound, and it's depth of penetration is either the same or less than .45 FMJ.

How great does that sound?

And that's only if you can come up with a bullet design that will reliably expand at those velocities without fragmenting. With half the starting frontal area of a .45 and 72% the frontal area of 9mm, you have much less hydraulic area to expand the bullet. This is velocity range is another limbo, between where traditional pistol hollowpoints become either too fragile or under penetrate, and rifle velocities and weights where you switch over to tougher spitzers and soft points.

If you go down to smaller bullets, you can more predictably get them to tumble. But a .30 bullet at these velocities isn't going to expand much and is too heavy to yaw much either.

August 3, 2014, 03:36 PM	#26
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	Look at the bullets suitable for 7.62x25 instead of those "heavy" 30 carbine. Also look at sizing the 65gr gold dots for 32. Should get "explosive" expansion at the likely velocities. __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

August 4, 2014, 02:30 PM	#29
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	once upon a time Rob Leatham said the 9x25 had too much recoil for him; all straight back (and really hard) in compensated guns. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 8, 2014, 04:38 PM	#32
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	oowie With a proper compensator it directed SO MUCH GAS its recoil came straight back. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 9, 2014, 06:36 AM	#34
silvermane_1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: Burien,WA Posts: 897	well if you want to make a new bottleneck pistol cal, go the route that the 22 TCM did which is a shortened 223/5.56, if you want a 308 cal, just make a shortened 308/7.62. __________________ Rugers:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlins: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE 9mm 4",Springfield:XD .357sig 4", AKs:CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63, WW74,SLR-106c

August 9, 2014, 09:01 AM	#35
Quincunx Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2005 Location: People's Republic of Maryland Posts: 421	Does that mean there is no interest in my newly developed blowback vest pocket pistol in .50 BMG with a 2" barrel and a 50 round magazine? I'll swap you my custom COP Derringer in .600 Nitro Express for it. And throw in a Thunderwear holster to boot. __________________ A mind without instruction can no more bear fruit than can a field, however fertile, without cultivation. --- Cicero

August 3, 2014, 06:12 PM	#27
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	300 Blackout/300 Fireball/300 Whisper? tipoc

August 3, 2014, 06:20 PM	#28
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,250	.327 Federal was a great idea, but no one bought it. I don't think there's enough demand for something like this.

August 7, 2014, 07:32 PM	#31
JD0x0 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2013 Posts: 1,037	The recoil on 9x25 looks fairly tame, out of a compensated glock20. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwZ1OpLscjQ

August 11, 2014, 07:05 AM	#37
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	A necked-down 10mm sounds like a "wimpy" version of the .440 CorBon developed for the Desert Eagle. Good luck trying to find the DE .440 barrel - I've been looking for over a decade and have had no luck.

August 11, 2014, 10:48 AM	#38
coldbeer Junior member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Woodhaven MI Posts: 477	What advantage would a 10mm necked down to .308 have over the 30 carbine? I'd want a larger caliber for a handgun and the 30 carbine can do anything a necked down 10mm can do better anyway.

August 11, 2014, 01:08 PM	#40
RX-79G Junior member Join Date: October 27, 2013 Posts: 1,139	Pistol bullets seem to be lethal because, despite being slow and low energy, they make up for it by being wide and heavy. So they make largish holes. Rifle bullets seam to be lethal because they are very fast, and actually produce the temporary wound cavity damage that handgun bullets don't have the energy to produce. This round lives in limbo between them and would do neither. It doesn't have the velocity to do the damage of a rifle bullet or the size to cut large enough holes. And it is also not small and light enough to do some of the odd things in flesh that round like .223 and 5.7 may do in terms of tumbling. It just appears to be a too-small pistol bullet or a too-slow rifle bullet. Just the thing to poke clean, tiny holes that do minimal damage for the amount of energy they carry. A poor bargain, I think.

August 11, 2014, 02:05 PM	#41
JD0x0 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2013 Posts: 1,037	I disagree. Starting diameter is only slightly smaller than 9mm and it's possible to get .50 cal expansion or larger. What you say would be true if you're limited to FMJ ammo, in which case, it'd be inefficient as a man stopper. (probably comparable 7.92x33Kurtz, 7.62x25 tokarev and .30 carbine with ball ammo) But in a case where you'd need penetration, it'd have plenty of it. With expanding ammo, wounding should be significant. If you don't think a .308 cal bullet at ~1800FPS can't do significant damage, talk to the hunters using .30-30 at 100-200 yards. While .30-30 bullets do tend to be heavier, impact velocities at common hunting ranges will be comparable to impact velocities and energy levels at SD distances with the .308-10mm With lighter bullets intended for 7.62x25 tokarev, as Ballardw suggested before, rifle like velocities could be attained, likely at the cost of soft tissue penetration, with an expanding bullet. Which could be desirable, if you're intending to create maximize temporary cavity size.

August 11, 2014, 04:18 PM	#42
RX-79G Junior member Join Date: October 27, 2013 Posts: 1,139	If it expands up to .50, you're saying that it is the lethal equivalent of an unexpanded .45 ACP. Except that it creates a smaller entry wound, and it's depth of penetration is either the same or less than .45 FMJ. How great does that sound? And that's only if you can come up with a bullet design that will reliably expand at those velocities without fragmenting. With half the starting frontal area of a .45 and 72% the frontal area of 9mm, you have much less hydraulic area to expand the bullet. This is velocity range is another limbo, between where traditional pistol hollowpoints become either too fragile or under penetrate, and rifle velocities and weights where you switch over to tougher spitzers and soft points. If you go down to smaller bullets, you can more predictably get them to tumble. But a .30 bullet at these velocities isn't going to expand much and is too heavy to yaw much either.