7.62X25 Tokarev

lizziedog1 · April 6, 2006, 12:26 AM

A local gun shop has a CZ52 for sale. I am considering buying it. I also checked Midway's website. Dies and all the reloading components for this cartridge are readily availabe. Does anyone here have experience with this firearm? Has anyone reloaded for it?

I looked up this cartridge in my Cartridges of the World book. It seems to have some zing to it.

joneb · April 6, 2006, 12:20 PM

I've heard the firing pin is prone to breaking, there may be a after market pin that is more durable ? Double up on the ear protection

I wonder if anyone makes a semi-auto carbine for the 7.62x25 that would be cool.

lizziedog1 · April 6, 2006, 05:39 PM

A small, semi auto carbine in 7.62X25 Tokarev would be neat. It would just be the ticket for coyotes.

Thanks about the hearing protection advise. I have fired it before. It does have a good bark to it. With expanding bullets it would probably make a decent HD weapon.

BigJakeJ1s · April 7, 2006, 10:24 PM

I don't reload for it yet. I use S&B ammo for it. But, I got a couple of boxes with the bullets seated slightly crooked (visibly, if you looked at it closely). The chamber on mine is slightly off center relative to the bore, and if the bullet is tipped in the wrong direction, it jams up against the rifling when it is chambered, causing excessive pressures, blown primers, etc., but no damage to the firearm.

I bought a set of lee dies to use the seater to try to straighten the bullets, but it did not work too well. Then I bought a set of RCBS 7.63 mauser dies, and that seater works a little better. Finally, on a whim, I asked Hornady if their 30 lugar seater would work ok for 7.62x25, since the upper case dimensions are virtually identical. They replied that it would work, so I bought one and tried it. Works like a champ, every time! Plus, you can add their micrometer head to their seater die. Of the sizer dies, I like the RCBS best, since it expands/sizes in one die, like bottleneck rifle dies.

As far as the gun is concerned, a hogue hand-all grip sleeve works very well on it, but it is ugly. I don't care. It is one of my favorite handguns to shoot. The firing pins are prone to break during dry firing, so don't do it without snap-caps. It throws the brass a country mile, but mine is very consistent about it, so it is not too hard to round up the brass.

Best $120 handgun I ever bought!

Hope this helps,

Andy

whitebb · April 7, 2006, 10:37 PM

CZ52's are extremely ugly pistols IMHO, but they are really fun! Big Jake nailed it onm the head. NO dry firing. Cons: The grip (I think its too big, just me) Pros: Price, fun factor, built like tank. Buy one, you won't be disappointed! I sold mine years ago, and sort of regret it.

Odd Job · April 8, 2006, 07:25 AM

@ BigJakeJ1S

Do you have the S+B ammunition with the steel core? If so would you be willing to pull 2 or 3 bullets and sell them to me? Obviously I will pay you for the whole cartridge, and your time and shipping to me in the UK. I intend to do ferromagnetism tests on them.

Edit: actually I would be interested in the standard S+B tombak-plated rounds too, because I want to test those jackets for ferromagnetism too.

BigJakeJ1s · April 9, 2006, 04:46 PM

Sorry, their just lead core, and whatever the jacket is, it is not ferro-magnetic. Looks like copper with a brass colored wash finish?

Hope this helps,

Andy

ohen cepel · April 9, 2006, 05:27 PM

It's a great round in my opinion!

Also, I love the CZ's, great bargains that I think are about gone (glad a bought a few

)

Firing pin can be an issue, but only if you dry fire. Also, there are plenty out there for sale to replace it if needed.

Odd Job · April 9, 2006, 06:09 PM

@ BigJake1S

Thanks for checking anyway, I appreciate it.

Dave Markowitz · April 9, 2006, 08:23 PM

CZ-52s are very interesting guns and fun to shoot. The firing pins made by casting, and they didn't do such a great job. Dry firing a CZ-52 with the stock firing pin will cause the FP to break. You can get replacement OEM pins or aftermarket pins made from machined steel. IIRC, Makarov.com carries the aftermarket pins.

The 7.62x25 is a hot, flat-shooting round with lots of penetration. I've shot mostly shoot Yugoslav milsurp ammo in mine, as I don't shoot it a lot and have no real desire to handload for it. There's some Romanian surplus 7.62x25 in spam cans on the market now that's reasonably priced. AIM Surplus is carrying it, maybe others. I've also shot Sellier & Bellot new production commerical ammo, which is nice and noncorrosive.

rupus2020 · April 12, 2006, 11:23 PM

The firing pin is a real issue.Don't drop it with people around.It is my favorite toy though.If you are into looks,it's not for you.Stick with a desert eagle or sig for that glory.

BigJakeJ1s · April 17, 2006, 09:35 PM

The CZ52 is one of those guns that is so ugly, it's beautiful! I know of no other semiauto pistol as large as it is with as slim a muzzle profile (due to recoil spring around rather than under the bbl. Kind of like a Makarov on steroids.

Andy

Leftoverdj · April 17, 2006, 10:39 PM

I've loaded .30 Mauser. They are close enough to interchange in some guns. If you can get brass, cherish it. I had to make it up from .223 brass and it was not an easy job.

joneb · April 17, 2006, 10:40 PM

Big jake,, do you find the makarov unattttractive ? I doubt it, I find the PM a slick carrie piece. so much so that I carry the mak more than I carry my .38 spl. snubby.

madmurdoc · April 19, 2006, 12:48 PM

My brother has a CZ 52 and I have shot it a couple occasions. The grip takes a little getting used to and a lot of the surplus ones are barely fired, let alone broken in. They do have a good range presence. Everyone thinks its an odd little auto, then they hear the bark and want to know more.

Be careful with the surplus ammo for them. The loads can be very hot for some lots, do some research here. These hot loads were intended for the SMG that was built on the same cartridge design. Some will fire in excess of 2000 fps though the NIJ tests the 7.62x25 ball at around 1500. Also, check your indoor range standards you may need to use the rifle traps. One of the workers at our local range wasn't sure of the round and put my brother on a rifle lane, "Just in case."

All in all it is an interesting piece and worth the investment wich is only small one. My borther has been working up some loads for his as well. Good topic, I'd like to here some more on the subject.

wyrdone · April 19, 2006, 03:46 PM

I have a CZ-52 and do some reloading.

Not too much to remark on. Midway USA and Brownells both carry brass, bullets and dies. (Get carbide dies if you can find them.)

The CZ-52 might be ugly but it sure packs a whallop. With PPsh rounds (think +P+ for 7.62x25 and steel penetrator cores) it will slice through a stack of 4-5 wet textbooks (our usual target fodder) and has muzzle velocity of around 1800-2000fps. However the PPsh rounds are really skirting the edge of disaster and there have been reports of cracked slides and burst barrels. However if you do find some of the PPSH ammo, you can pull the bullets and reload the ammo with a lighter load.

K98 · April 20, 2006, 03:13 PM

Thanks for the props Bro (madmurdoc)

I've been using once fired (S&B, Winchester) brass with Hornady XTP .309 diameter bullets. Right now, my everyday load is 6.0 grains of Unique and that seems to work really well for me, but everyone should develop their own loads for their own specific gun.

Like Wyrdone said, the carbide dies are a little nicer, but I've been using the basic steel ones from Lee and haven't had any problems. Give em a quick shot of the spray lube and you're good to go.

A lot of people have successfully used the Speer .311 bullets meant for the 32 ACP, but if you decide to go this route it would be best to slug your barrel first to make sure the bullets will be fine.

Mine slugs out at .310 which is pretty typical for the Excellent grade, like new ones that were being sold for a long time. Incidentally, this is the standard bore size for Russian 7.62. The AKs and SKSs also slug at .310. I found that the .311 bullets were a little tight for my tastes, but mileage will vary, and a slightly used bore may likely give you the space to use the Speer bullets.

Just for reference - S&B and Winchester intentionally undersize their bullets a bit. If you measure one, you'll find it's in more of the .308 range. Which just gives you more reason to reload your own and capitalize on the potential for better accuracy.

Be careful, work up your loads, erring on the side of caution as always and it'll work out great.

BigJakeJ1s · April 21, 2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Big jake,, do you find the makarov unattttractive ? I doubt it, I find the PM a slick carrie piece. so much so that I carry the mak more than I carry my .38 spl. snubby.

Jibjab,

Heavens no! I find the Makarov very attractive and comfortable to shoot/carry, if a little heavy. I was referring to the lines of the muzzle/shroud, both owing to the recoil spring being around, rather than under, the barrel.

Andy

saber22 · April 21, 2006, 10:01 PM

This is an Exert from the book "Shooting to Live" Chapter VII on Stopping Power from Fairbairn and Sykes.

Turning now to the high velocity small calibre weapons, we have seen terrible damage caused by a Mauser automatic, calibre 7.63mm., of military pattern. We have in mind the case of a man who was hit in the arm by a solid full-jacketed bullet from a weapon of this type. Though he was in hospital within half an hour of being shot, nothing could be done to avoid amputation, so badly were [U]the bone and tissue lacerated. Perhaps "pulped" would convey our meaning more exactly. Yet in theory at least the bullet should have caused far less shock than it obviously did. From what we have read, the bullet had something of the effect that he latest developments in ultra high velocity small-bore rifles are reported to have on game animals. [/U]We might add that in the particular service from whose records we have been quoting, nothing is so feared, rightly or wrongly, as the Mauser military automatic. The mention of the word is sufficient, if there is trouble afoot, to send men in instant search of bullet-proof equipment.

This is of course discussing the 7.63x25 Mauser round, which for all intisive purposes the same as the 7.62x25 tok (personal opinions and gunshow gossip not withstanding), as encountered by the Police force in Shanghai China. Just thought I would throw this in for comment.

April 6, 2006, 12:26 AM	#1
lizziedog1 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 289	7.62X25 Tokarev A local gun shop has a CZ52 for sale. I am considering buying it. I also checked Midway's website. Dies and all the reloading components for this cartridge are readily availabe. Does anyone here have experience with this firearm? Has anyone reloaded for it? I looked up this cartridge in my Cartridges of the World book. It seems to have some zing to it.

April 9, 2006, 05:27 PM	#8
ohen cepel Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 1999 Location: Where they send me Posts: 1,013	It's a great round in my opinion! Also, I love the CZ's, great bargains that I think are about gone (glad a bought a few ) Firing pin can be an issue, but only if you dry fire. Also, there are plenty out there for sale to replace it if needed. __________________ He who dares wins. NRA Life Benefactor Member

April 9, 2006, 08:23 PM	#10
Dave Markowitz Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2002 Location: SE PA Posts: 372	CZ-52s are very interesting guns and fun to shoot. The firing pins made by casting, and they didn't do such a great job. Dry firing a CZ-52 with the stock firing pin will cause the FP to break. You can get replacement OEM pins or aftermarket pins made from machined steel. IIRC, Makarov.com carries the aftermarket pins. The 7.62x25 is a hot, flat-shooting round with lots of penetration. I've shot mostly shoot Yugoslav milsurp ammo in mine, as I don't shoot it a lot and have no real desire to handload for it. There's some Romanian surplus 7.62x25 in spam cans on the market now that's reasonably priced. AIM Surplus is carrying it, maybe others. I've also shot Sellier & Bellot new production commerical ammo, which is nice and noncorrosive. __________________ Dave Markowitz http://blogostuff.blogspot.com

April 19, 2006, 12:48 PM	#15
madmurdoc Member Join Date: November 23, 2004 Location: Southeast Michigan Posts: 94	My brother has a CZ 52 and I have shot it a couple occasions. The grip takes a little getting used to and a lot of the surplus ones are barely fired, let alone broken in. They do have a good range presence. Everyone thinks its an odd little auto, then they hear the bark and want to know more. Be careful with the surplus ammo for them. The loads can be very hot for some lots, do some research here. These hot loads were intended for the SMG that was built on the same cartridge design. Some will fire in excess of 2000 fps though the NIJ tests the 7.62x25 ball at around 1500. Also, check your indoor range standards you may need to use the rifle traps. One of the workers at our local range wasn't sure of the round and put my brother on a rifle lane, "Just in case." All in all it is an interesting piece and worth the investment wich is only small one. My borther has been working up some loads for his as well. Good topic, I'd like to here some more on the subject. __________________ Always remember: safety first, last, and always. Michigan Constitution, Declaration of Rights, Sec. 5. "Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state." Last edited by madmurdoc; April 19, 2006 at 04:07 PM.

April 19, 2006, 03:46 PM	#16
wyrdone Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2004 Location: Blacksburg, VA, USA Posts: 246	I have a CZ-52 and do some reloading. Not too much to remark on. Midway USA and Brownells both carry brass, bullets and dies. (Get carbide dies if you can find them.) The CZ-52 might be ugly but it sure packs a whallop. With PPsh rounds (think +P+ for 7.62x25 and steel penetrator cores) it will slice through a stack of 4-5 wet textbooks (our usual target fodder) and has muzzle velocity of around 1800-2000fps. However the PPsh rounds are really skirting the edge of disaster and there have been reports of cracked slides and burst barrels. However if you do find some of the PPSH ammo, you can pull the bullets and reload the ammo with a lighter load. __________________ Current Collection Marlin Model 60 (my first gun) Ruger Mark-II .22LR Competition pistol (heavily modified) CZ-50 CVA Bobcat .50Cal Blackpower Mosin Nagant 91/30 (1942) Marlin 336 .30-30 Lever Action Yugo SKS 59/66 CZ-52 Bulgarian Makarov Swiss K-31 Rock Island 1911A1 Near Future (hopefully): M1 Garand CZ-75

April 6, 2006, 12:20 PM	#2
joneb Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Location: Central , OR Posts: 1,888	I've heard the firing pin is prone to breaking, there may be a after market pin that is more durable ? Double up on the ear protection I wonder if anyone makes a semi-auto carbine for the 7.62x25 that would be cool.

April 6, 2006, 05:39 PM	#3
lizziedog1 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 289	A small, semi auto carbine in 7.62X25 Tokarev would be neat. It would just be the ticket for coyotes. Thanks about the hearing protection advise. I have fired it before. It does have a good bark to it. With expanding bullets it would probably make a decent HD weapon.

April 7, 2006, 10:24 PM	#4
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	I don't reload for it yet. I use S&B ammo for it. But, I got a couple of boxes with the bullets seated slightly crooked (visibly, if you looked at it closely). The chamber on mine is slightly off center relative to the bore, and if the bullet is tipped in the wrong direction, it jams up against the rifling when it is chambered, causing excessive pressures, blown primers, etc., but no damage to the firearm. I bought a set of lee dies to use the seater to try to straighten the bullets, but it did not work too well. Then I bought a set of RCBS 7.63 mauser dies, and that seater works a little better. Finally, on a whim, I asked Hornady if their 30 lugar seater would work ok for 7.62x25, since the upper case dimensions are virtually identical. They replied that it would work, so I bought one and tried it. Works like a champ, every time! Plus, you can add their micrometer head to their seater die. Of the sizer dies, I like the RCBS best, since it expands/sizes in one die, like bottleneck rifle dies. As far as the gun is concerned, a hogue hand-all grip sleeve works very well on it, but it is ugly. I don't care. It is one of my favorite handguns to shoot. The firing pins are prone to break during dry firing, so don't do it without snap-caps. It throws the brass a country mile, but mine is very consistent about it, so it is not too hard to round up the brass. Best $120 handgun I ever bought! Hope this helps, Andy

April 7, 2006, 10:37 PM	#5
whitebb Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2006 Location: ga Posts: 313	CZ52's are extremely ugly pistols IMHO, but they are really fun! Big Jake nailed it onm the head. NO dry firing. Cons: The grip (I think its too big, just me) Pros: Price, fun factor, built like tank. Buy one, you won't be disappointed! I sold mine years ago, and sort of regret it.

April 8, 2006, 07:25 AM	#6
Odd Job Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2006 Location: London (ex SA) Posts: 476	@ BigJakeJ1S Do you have the S+B ammunition with the steel core? If so would you be willing to pull 2 or 3 bullets and sell them to me? Obviously I will pay you for the whole cartridge, and your time and shipping to me in the UK. I intend to do ferromagnetism tests on them. Edit: actually I would be interested in the standard S+B tombak-plated rounds too, because I want to test those jackets for ferromagnetism too.

April 9, 2006, 04:46 PM	#7
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	Sorry, their just lead core, and whatever the jacket is, it is not ferro-magnetic. Looks like copper with a brass colored wash finish? Hope this helps, Andy

April 9, 2006, 06:09 PM	#9
Odd Job Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2006 Location: London (ex SA) Posts: 476	@ BigJake1S Thanks for checking anyway, I appreciate it.

April 12, 2006, 11:23 PM	#11
rupus2020 Junior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Posts: 1	The firing pin is a real issue.Don't drop it with people around.It is my favorite toy though.If you are into looks,it's not for you.Stick with a desert eagle or sig for that glory.

April 17, 2006, 09:35 PM	#12
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	The CZ52 is one of those guns that is so ugly, it's beautiful! I know of no other semiauto pistol as large as it is with as slim a muzzle profile (due to recoil spring around rather than under the bbl. Kind of like a Makarov on steroids. Andy

April 17, 2006, 10:39 PM	#13
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	I've loaded .30 Mauser. They are close enough to interchange in some guns. If you can get brass, cherish it. I had to make it up from .223 brass and it was not an easy job.

April 17, 2006, 10:40 PM	#14
joneb Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Location: Central , OR Posts: 1,888	Big jake,, do you find the makarov unattttractive ? I doubt it, I find the PM a slick carrie piece. so much so that I carry the mak more than I carry my .38 spl. snubby.

April 20, 2006, 03:13 PM	#17
K98 Junior Member Join Date: April 20, 2006 Posts: 1	Thanks for the props Bro (madmurdoc) I've been using once fired (S&B, Winchester) brass with Hornady XTP .309 diameter bullets. Right now, my everyday load is 6.0 grains of Unique and that seems to work really well for me, but everyone should develop their own loads for their own specific gun. Like Wyrdone said, the carbide dies are a little nicer, but I've been using the basic steel ones from Lee and haven't had any problems. Give em a quick shot of the spray lube and you're good to go. A lot of people have successfully used the Speer .311 bullets meant for the 32 ACP, but if you decide to go this route it would be best to slug your barrel first to make sure the bullets will be fine. Mine slugs out at .310 which is pretty typical for the Excellent grade, like new ones that were being sold for a long time. Incidentally, this is the standard bore size for Russian 7.62. The AKs and SKSs also slug at .310. I found that the .311 bullets were a little tight for my tastes, but mileage will vary, and a slightly used bore may likely give you the space to use the Speer bullets. Just for reference - S&B and Winchester intentionally undersize their bullets a bit. If you measure one, you'll find it's in more of the .308 range. Which just gives you more reason to reload your own and capitalize on the potential for better accuracy. Be careful, work up your loads, erring on the side of caution as always and it'll work out great.

April 21, 2006, 10:01 PM	#19
saber22 Member Join Date: April 19, 2005 Posts: 39	Potential Fighting Stopping Power This is an Exert from the book "Shooting to Live" Chapter VII on Stopping Power from Fairbairn and Sykes. Turning now to the high velocity small calibre weapons, we have seen terrible damage caused by a Mauser automatic, calibre 7.63mm., of military pattern. We have in mind the case of a man who was hit in the arm by a solid full-jacketed bullet from a weapon of this type. Though he was in hospital within half an hour of being shot, nothing could be done to avoid amputation, so badly were [U]the bone and tissue lacerated. Perhaps "pulped" would convey our meaning more exactly. Yet in theory at least the bullet should have caused far less shock than it obviously did. From what we have read, the bullet had something of the effect that he latest developments in ultra high velocity small-bore rifles are reported to have on game animals. [/U]We might add that in the particular service from whose records we have been quoting, nothing is so feared, rightly or wrongly, as the Mauser military automatic. The mention of the word is sufficient, if there is trouble afoot, to send men in instant search of bullet-proof equipment. This is of course discussing the 7.63x25 Mauser round, which for all intisive purposes the same as the 7.62x25 tok (personal opinions and gunshow gossip not withstanding), as encountered by the Police force in Shanghai China. Just thought I would throw this in for comment.