.45 acp 200 gr swc cartridge overall length?

orionengnr · December 27, 2008, 04:27 PM

I have bought several brands of cast 45acp 200 gr SWCs. I am having an issue with COAL. My manuals quote anything from 1.185 (Speer 13), 1.225 (Hodgdon website) 1.230 (Hornady Third) to 1.250 (Alliant website).

Just using the shoulder of the bullet as a guide, 1.225-1.230 "look" right. Using the cartridge guide I just bought from Dillon, 1.225 drops in flush, seems to fit best, so I went and re-seated the 600 rounds I had loaded recently.

Oops. At the range on Friday, I got about 1 out of 10 that does not readily feed from the magazine. Upon closer inspection, the shoulder is flush with the case mouth, so brass is the first thing to hit the feed ramp.

I think I have a lot of time with my inertial puller in front of me.

So, what overall length works for you? Does it vary from one 200 gr SWC to the next? Anything else I'm overlooking?

Note--I ran all the cartridges through the full length sizer die after re-seating to make sure they weren't bulged or oversized.

millerwb · December 27, 2008, 04:39 PM

Mine are loaded to 1.180. I occasionally have a FTL but that appears to be due to the lube that I use catching on the case rim. I am using a Hensley & Gibbs #130BB mold for mine. The bullet shoulder sits above the case mouth.

Sarge · December 27, 2008, 04:43 PM

1.250 is perfect for a properly set-up 1911.

DaveInPA · December 27, 2008, 04:45 PM

What type of gun are you running them in?

Anyway, here's a trick. Take the barrel out of your pistol. Seat the bullet so that when you drop the round into the chamber, the case head sits flush with the end of the barrel and the round goes in and out of the chamber easily.

I seat 200gr LSWC's to 1.260" for use in my 1911's. 1.275" is max length for .45ACP, so you have some room to play around.

Jim Watson · December 27, 2008, 05:14 PM

millerwb is obviously not running a H&G #68 copy which usually works pretty well at the Internet Gospel length of 1.250". I load mine a little shorter, but not below 1.240".

But Dave's method is the first place to go instead of a number off the wall that might apply to your bullets and might not.

millerwb · December 27, 2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

millerwb is obviously not running a H&G #68 copy which usually works pretty well at the Internet Gospel length of 1.250". I load mine a little shorter, but not below 1.240".

Actually, I am using these in a Colt Civilian 1911a1 made in 1948. It was set up for Bullseye. I have not loaded them any loger because these work. I might try them a bit longer someday.

C Bass · December 27, 2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

But Dave's method is the first place to go instead of a number off the wall that might apply to your bullets and might not.

I'm a little confused by this... how is this method going to tell you if he's seating the bullet too deep or if his OAL is too short? How does this method help you determine the OAL for the type of bullet you're using?
Thanks...

orionengnr · December 27, 2008, 06:51 PM

Yes, I am wondering the same. If the 45acp headspaces off the case mouth, then a too-short OAL would appear perfect--indeed, I was using my barrel as a case gage before I got the Dillon case gage. Right now, I am dropping sized, de-primed empty cases into the Dillon case gage, and the drop in flush. On over-seated (too short) loaded bullet would do the same (and does)--that's the problem.

At this point, I'm thinking I'm going to load some to 1.230 (which is where I started before I got the case gage and started down this 1.225 road), some to 1.240, some to 1.250, maybe some to 1.260, and see what works.

**Unclenick** · December 27, 2008, 06:53 PM

I've put up the picture before, but can't recall what thread? Give me a minute and I will insert it here. It uses the 1911 barrel for illustration, but the principle is general as Dave described. It is called headspacing off the bullet. Third image from left. Another board member PM'd me to say thanks after I last posted the picture because when he tried it all his leading problems stopped. It prevents bullet tip and shaving.

Insertion complete!

A long as your bullets feed from your magazine, the actual number doesn't matter. You've just customized the COL for that bullet in your gun.

LHB1 · December 27, 2008, 07:23 PM

With 200 gr LSWC bullets of style matching H&G #68, you can seat them so that the bullet shoulder protrudes about 1/32" in front of case mouth. This gives an OAL of 1.240-1.250". When seated to this length and taper crimped to .470-.471", they have fed well in every .45 ACP 1911 I've tried.

millerwb · December 27, 2008, 08:20 PM

Well, I spoke before checking, again

. I measured the wrong box of bullets. The ones that I measured at 1.180 are actually 185 gr (reference list that weight when made from Linotype, mine are WW or Lyman #2) out of my H&G 130BB (manufactured between 1941 and 1954) mold. I thank Unclenick for posting his picture on checking the proper headspace with my reloads. I check the ones that I measured and they are actually a little long (maybe a few thous). Sorry to put out wrong info before getting my facts straight.

DaveInPA · December 27, 2008, 08:55 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering how you managed to seat those bullets to such a short OAL!

orionengnr · December 27, 2008, 09:06 PM

UncleNick--
Actually, I have your pevious post saved to favorites:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...=324039&page=2 (bottom of page)
and was using it as a cross-check with the Dillon case gage. My handloads look like #2 after the additional re-seat to 1.225 and the additional re-size. They drop in and out of the barrel and the Dillon gage. So do my empty re-sized, deprimed cases. So once again, it appears as if I am headspacing on the case mouth, and the COAL is negatively affecting the feeding.

Excuse me for not saying this earlier, but thank you all for your help.

C Bass · December 27, 2008, 10:09 PM

Uncle Nick,
In the picture, third from the left, is that bullet actually making contact with the rifling and that's why the case is sticking out a little further?
Thanks for the info!

Jim Watson · December 27, 2008, 11:38 PM

I'm not Unclenick, but the answer is yes. The semiwadcutter .45ACP is properly seated to headspace against the shoulder of the bullet, not the case mouth, not the extractor; the bullet contacts the origin of the rifling.

If this does not give good feeding, you can seat deeper so long as the shoulder is not below the case mouth. If no seating depth with the shoulder anywhere from the case mouth to contact with the rifling gives good feeding, you have two choices: use a different bullet or get the gun worked on. It used to be customary to cut the ramps more on a wadcutter gun than it is now. Case wall support was not much of an issue because the loads were light.

December 27, 2008, 04:43 PM	#3
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	1.250 is perfect for a properly set-up 1911. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

December 27, 2008, 06:53 PM	#9
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I've put up the picture before, but can't recall what thread? Give me a minute and I will insert it here. It uses the 1911 barrel for illustration, but the principle is general as Dave described. It is called headspacing off the bullet. Third image from left. Another board member PM'd me to say thanks after I last posted the picture because when he tried it all his leading problems stopped. It prevents bullet tip and shaving. Insertion complete! A long as your bullets feed from your magazine, the actual number doesn't matter. You've just customized the COL for that bullet in your gun. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; December 27, 2008 at 06:59 PM.

December 27, 2008, 07:23 PM	#10
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	With 200 gr LSWC bullets of style matching H&G #68, you can seat them so that the bullet shoulder protrudes about 1/32" in front of case mouth. This gives an OAL of 1.240-1.250". When seated to this length and taper crimped to .470-.471", they have fed well in every .45 ACP 1911 I've tried. __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB

December 27, 2008, 08:20 PM	#11
millerwb Member Join Date: December 13, 2008 Posts: 63	Well, I spoke before checking, again . I measured the wrong box of bullets. The ones that I measured at 1.180 are actually 185 gr (reference list that weight when made from Linotype, mine are WW or Lyman #2) out of my H&G 130BB (manufactured between 1941 and 1954) mold. I thank Unclenick for posting his picture on checking the proper headspace with my reloads. I check the ones that I measured and they are actually a little long (maybe a few thous). Sorry to put out wrong info before getting my facts straight. Last edited by millerwb; December 27, 2008 at 08:35 PM.

December 27, 2008, 04:27 PM	#1
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	.45 acp 200 gr swc cartridge overall length? I have bought several brands of cast 45acp 200 gr SWCs. I am having an issue with COAL. My manuals quote anything from 1.185 (Speer 13), 1.225 (Hodgdon website) 1.230 (Hornady Third) to 1.250 (Alliant website). Just using the shoulder of the bullet as a guide, 1.225-1.230 "look" right. Using the cartridge guide I just bought from Dillon, 1.225 drops in flush, seems to fit best, so I went and re-seated the 600 rounds I had loaded recently. Oops. At the range on Friday, I got about 1 out of 10 that does not readily feed from the magazine. Upon closer inspection, the shoulder is flush with the case mouth, so brass is the first thing to hit the feed ramp. I think I have a lot of time with my inertial puller in front of me. So, what overall length works for you? Does it vary from one 200 gr SWC to the next? Anything else I'm overlooking? Note--I ran all the cartridges through the full length sizer die after re-seating to make sure they weren't bulged or oversized.

December 27, 2008, 04:39 PM	#2
millerwb Member Join Date: December 13, 2008 Posts: 63	Mine are loaded to 1.180. I occasionally have a FTL but that appears to be due to the lube that I use catching on the case rim. I am using a Hensley & Gibbs #130BB mold for mine. The bullet shoulder sits above the case mouth. Last edited by millerwb; December 27, 2008 at 08:51 PM. Reason: correct info

December 27, 2008, 04:45 PM	#4
DaveInPA Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Berks County, PA Posts: 1,106	What type of gun are you running them in? Anyway, here's a trick. Take the barrel out of your pistol. Seat the bullet so that when you drop the round into the chamber, the case head sits flush with the end of the barrel and the round goes in and out of the chamber easily. I seat 200gr LSWC's to 1.260" for use in my 1911's. 1.275" is max length for .45ACP, so you have some room to play around.

December 27, 2008, 05:14 PM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	millerwb is obviously not running a H&G #68 copy which usually works pretty well at the Internet Gospel length of 1.250". I load mine a little shorter, but not below 1.240". But Dave's method is the first place to go instead of a number off the wall that might apply to your bullets and might not.

December 27, 2008, 06:51 PM	#8
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	Yes, I am wondering the same. If the 45acp headspaces off the case mouth, then a too-short OAL would appear perfect--indeed, I was using my barrel as a case gage before I got the Dillon case gage. Right now, I am dropping sized, de-primed empty cases into the Dillon case gage, and the drop in flush. On over-seated (too short) loaded bullet would do the same (and does)--that's the problem. At this point, I'm thinking I'm going to load some to 1.230 (which is where I started before I got the case gage and started down this 1.225 road), some to 1.240, some to 1.250, maybe some to 1.260, and see what works.

December 27, 2008, 08:55 PM	#12
DaveInPA Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Berks County, PA Posts: 1,106	Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering how you managed to seat those bullets to such a short OAL!

December 27, 2008, 09:06 PM	#13
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	UncleNick-- Actually, I have your pevious post saved to favorites: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...=324039&page=2 (bottom of page) and was using it as a cross-check with the Dillon case gage. My handloads look like #2 after the additional re-seat to 1.225 and the additional re-size. They drop in and out of the barrel and the Dillon gage. So do my empty re-sized, deprimed cases. So once again, it appears as if I am headspacing on the case mouth, and the COAL is negatively affecting the feeding. Excuse me for not saying this earlier, but thank you all for your help.

December 27, 2008, 10:09 PM	#14
C Bass Member Join Date: December 2, 2008 Posts: 24	Uncle Nick, In the picture, third from the left, is that bullet actually making contact with the rifling and that's why the case is sticking out a little further? Thanks for the info!

December 27, 2008, 11:38 PM	#15
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I'm not Unclenick, but the answer is yes. The semiwadcutter .45ACP is properly seated to headspace against the shoulder of the bullet, not the case mouth, not the extractor; the bullet contacts the origin of the rifling. If this does not give good feeding, you can seat deeper so long as the shoulder is not below the case mouth. If no seating depth with the shoulder anywhere from the case mouth to contact with the rifling gives good feeding, you have two choices: use a different bullet or get the gun worked on. It used to be customary to cut the ramps more on a wadcutter gun than it is now. Case wall support was not much of an issue because the loads were light.